A Sea Of Red

It turned out well. We would not have what we have today without Doc's vision.

SuperJon wrote:And how'd that turn out?

No playoffs, consistently snubbed by the SoCon, but at least the team performed well the first couple of seasons before the bottom fell out.

LUGrad2000 wrote:

Purple Haize wrote:......and I doubt JMU would be open to playing us

Agreed...unless they had no choice.

Since they will ALWAYS have a choice.....

FBS Independent, under the current circumstances, is about as likely as Bill Clinton keeping his pants zipped up for the rest of his life.

Stop the madness.

flameshaw wrote:FBS Independent, under the current circumstances, is about as likely as Bill Clinton keeping his pants zipped up for the rest of his life.

Stop the madness.

I heard he's switching to 501's..........

BuryYourDuke wrote:We wouldn't be where we are today had we not gone 1-AA independent. No one is saying being independent FBS will be easy, but to get where we want to be it is probably the only foreseeable way at the moment.

The NCAA changes the rules all the time. Some of yall are acting pretty ridiculous about the possibility of going independent. All it would take is filing a legal brief and the ncaa would roll over on this rule, because it's discriminatory. Plain and simple. If the choice is suffering for a while as an independent or staying in a dying division, watching teams come out of nowhere jumping to FBS (Kennesaw will be the next Coastal), I think it will be worth the sacrifice. This experience has made it clear that this is about who we are, and it's time to embrace the idea of going indy over begging the haters to like us.

I agree with you for the most part, especially the first paragraph. The problem with going independent, assuming the rules were to change to allow this, would be scheduling. You can't make FBS teams play us. We have had trouble for many years getting a good quality OOC schedule. We had the same problem as a 1-AA school back in the day. It was embarrassing scheduling some of the teams we had to play in the SR and KK days. (It is good to see that we are no longer playing Dll schools now). Hopefully something positive will happen in the near future.

BuryYourDuke wrote:We wouldn't be where we are today had we not gone 1-AA independent. No one is saying being independent FBS will be easy, but to get where we want to be it is probably the only foreseeable way at the moment.

The NCAA changes the rules all the time. Some of yall are acting pretty ridiculous about the possibility of going independent. All it would take is filing a legal brief and the ncaa would roll over on this rule, because it's discriminatory. Plain and simple. If the choice is suffering for a while as an independent or staying in a dying division, watching teams come out of nowhere jumping to FBS (Kennesaw will be the next Coastal), I think it will be worth the sacrifice. This experience has made it clear that this is about who we are, and it's time to embrace the idea of going indy over begging the haters to like us.

This lends more to the "wait for the best option, not the first option". IF the NCAA changes rules all the time then why jump to FBS Independent and burn bridges. There is a huge difference between making our jump to 1-AA and making a jump to FBS Independent in today's environment

FBS Indy would be ok for a time if we had several scheduling alliances in place. This is all contingent on a rule change and multiple FCS schools in the same boat we are making the jump at the same time as we do. The big negative would be the lack of access to a bowl game and T.V. we might be able to do something about T.V. though.

I am totally O.K. with staying in FCS, if that is all we can do. It was pretty exciting last year during the playoffs. I will support LU no matter who we play.

With no TV deal (exposure) and no chance of a post season (bowl games), why would a recruit want to play for us? What are we selling?

SuperJon wrote:With no TV deal (exposure) and no chance of a post season (bowl games), why would a recruit want to play for us? What are we selling?

Because

The lack of bowl games would be a huge detractor that I honestly do not have an answer for.

T.V.
What network are SB games on? ESPNU? On a Tuesday night? Regional syndication?

My students watch most of their "TV" on the internet now. There are many opportunities to get LFSN out. Would we have the ability through LFSN to have a 1. Online network similar to ESPN3 2. A deal to carry LFSN programming on a national network. Ie. dish or Direct TV? 3. A new innovative platform that we (I) have not thought of?
Link our games through our online learning platform?
So we could conceivably sell the ability to watch every single one of our games nationally.

Still no bowl games though.

BuryYourDuke wrote:What did we have to offer recruits for the first 20 years? What do we have to offer them now? We will still be on television more than most because of our network. Do you think the G5 conferences have any better reach? They aren't packing the bowl games with teams either. Even as an independent with some success we would get noticed for bowls. Bowl games are money making ventures. If our fan base travels well we will get bids.

There will be other independent move ups, and they will need us in scheduling just like we need them. Other conference schools will definitely view an FBS indy game as superior over an FCS game. Like I said, it will be a struggle for a while, but it is far superior to the alternative.

B1G might be more willing to schedule us since they are no longer going to play FCS teams. We would be perfect money games for them. One game a year like that would give good exposure, if we are competitive.

BuryYourDuke wrote:What did we have to offer recruits for the first 20 years? What do we have to offer them now? We will still be on television more than most because of our network. Do you think the G5 conferences have any better reach? They aren't packing the bowl games with teams either. Even as an independent with some success we would get noticed for bowls. Bowl games are money making ventures. If our fan base travels well we will get bids.

There will be other independent move ups, and they will need us in scheduling just like we need them. Other conference schools will definitely view an FBS indy game as superior over an FCS game. Like I said, it will be a struggle for a while, but it is far superior to the alternative.

Simply getting noticed for bowls will not help get into a bowl.

1. Almost all bowls are tied up with conference contractual arrangements. The others have made contractual arrangements with Army & BYU. We would need to either help create a new bowl or bump someone.

2. Also, we need to consider how many years it may take take to consistently get the 6 wins to become bowl eligible.

SuperJon wrote:With no TV deal (exposure) and no chance of a post season (bowl games), why would a recruit want to play for us? What are we selling?

The mission of the school

BuryYourDuke wrote:What did we have to offer recruits for the first 20 years? What do we have to offer them now? We will still be on television more than most because of our network. Do you think the G5 conferences have any better reach? They aren't packing the bowl games with teams either. Even as an independent with some success we would get noticed for bowls. Bowl games are money making ventures. If our fan base travels well we will get bids.

There will be other independent move ups, and they will need us in scheduling just like we need them. Other conference schools will definitely view an FBS indy game as superior over an FCS game. Like I said, it will be a struggle for a while, but it is far superior to the alternative.

Completely different landscape than 20 years ago. We weren't exactly a model for consistent success.
If there will be other Independents than you might as well take the next leap and say the NCAA is going to allow new Conference formation. I mean if we are playing 'What ifs...' We might as well go all the way

SuperJon wrote:With no TV deal (exposure) and no chance of a post season (bowl games), why would a recruit want to play for us? What are we selling?

This. If the point is to get exposure, FBS indy is a stupid idea, because we would get none.

Purple Haize wrote: ' We might as well go all the way

That's what she said

BuryYourDuke wrote:

phoenix wrote:

SuperJon wrote:With no TV deal (exposure) and no chance of a post season (bowl games), why would a recruit want to play for us? What are we selling?

This. If the point is to get exposure, FBS indy is a stupid idea, because we would get none.

As opposed to what we get in FCS, which is?

No exposure with less $ spent in scholarships/FCOA. I know we're swimming in money, but we still need to be good stewards and not throw it away of we can avoid it. Why spend more money for the same exposure?

It took us over 20 years to get where we are not after going FCS independent. It would take even longer if we somehow were allowed to go FBS independent. I want us to go FBS because I really do think 10 years from now FCS will be a shell of itself but going independent would be a disaster.

Possible fixes to our Indy problem

1) As one of the largest online institutions why are we not exploring a sports channel TV deal with Netflix or Prime. They've made it clear that they want to branch out in that direction.

2) why couldn't we do the same thing for post season play That the MEAC is doing in the FCS by not sending a school to playoffs and having there own championship game !?!? Have our own Indy Bowl!

I looked at some of the sports boards belonging to the schools mentioned above as benefiting from or being part of this FBS independent community. Came back empty on any clues that they are discussing/aware.

Jacksonville State is the only one that has had their fans speculating. They are just like us stuck in no man's land with no options available since the Sun Belt wants nothing to do with them.

SuperJon wrote:FBS Independent (assuming the rules change and we don't bully our way in and the Big South somehow lets us keep our other sports there which is a different topic all together):

Wouldn't the Big South prefer our football to leave? The way I understand it, the Big South requires COA for men's and women's basketball.

Football would be the big area of Liberty's current advantage with COA.

I understand that LU's Olympic sports might have an advantage as well...but at the end of the day I think our administration would work it out with the Big South...the only concessions that I could see the Big South asking is that we drop COA for Olympic sports & they also might ask us to stay long enough for them to find a football only replacement to make sure they have enough teams to keep the auto bid. We'd probably agree to both.

The LU administration has been very consistent the entire time of realignment saying that they fully support the big south until the school can become FBS.

jimflamesfan wrote:

SuperJon wrote:FBS Independent (assuming the rules change and we don't bully our way in and the Big South somehow lets us keep our other sports there which is a different topic all together):

Wouldn't the Big South prefer our football to leave? The way I understand it, the Big South requires COA for men's and women's basketball.

Football would be the big area of Liberty's current advantage with COA.

I understand that LU's Olympic sports might have an advantage as well...but at the end of the day I think our administration would work it out with the Big South...the only concessions that I could see the Big South asking is that we drop COA for Olympic sports & they also might ask us to stay long enough for them to find a football only replacement to make sure they have enough teams to keep the auto bid. We'd probably agree to both.

The LU administration has been very consistent the entire time of realignment saying that they fully support the big south until the school can become FBS.

If Coastal and Liberty both were to leave, unless they can get another football program to join (and as far as I know there is nothing about to happen anytime soon on that front) the BSC would lose their autobid. They definately don´t want that.

olldflame wrote:

jimflamesfan wrote:

SuperJon wrote:FBS Independent (assuming the rules change and we don't bully our way in and the Big South somehow lets us keep our other sports there which is a different topic all together):

Wouldn't the Big South prefer our football to leave? The way I understand it, the Big South requires COA for men's and women's basketball.

Football would be the big area of Liberty's current advantage with COA.

I understand that LU's Olympic sports might have an advantage as well...but at the end of the day I think our administration would work it out with the Big South...the only concessions that I could see the Big South asking is that we drop COA for Olympic sports & they also might ask us to stay long enough for them to find a football only replacement to make sure they have enough teams to keep the auto bid. We'd probably agree to both.

The LU administration has been very consistent the entire time of realignment saying that they fully support the big south until the school can become FBS.

If Coastal and Liberty both were to leave, unless they can get another football program to join (and as far as I know there is nothing about to happen anytime soon on that front) the BSC would lose their autobid. They definately don´t want that.

Which is a reason why if we left, the BSC wouldn't really want to do us any favors