Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

#489901
So what do we read into the LU "has more than one option", since suing is off the table.

A. He's referring to a long shot at CUSA or another league in the future.
B. He's thinking that the Sunbelt may eventually expand further.
C. LU is looking to buy the rights to WAC football and invite ourselves.
D. ????
#489911
We will get there one day! Because moving to FBS is getting easier every year. Now days you can get an invite the same day you announce your football program, Charlotte. You can move up regardless of your attendance numbers, Eastern Michigan. You can shut down your program, hold a telethon, layout a year, and come back, UAB. And all you need is 9000 seats, Coastal. Don't worry we'll get there guys!
User avatar
By PAmedic
Registration Days Posts
#489913
TH Spangler wrote:We will get there one day! Because moving to FBS is getting easier every year. Now days you can get an invite the same day you announce your football program, Charlotte. You can move up regardless of your attendance numbers, Eastern Michigan. You can shut down your program, hold a telethon, layout a year, and come back, UAB. And all you need is 9000 seats, Coastal. Don't worry we'll get there guys!

yeah unless you're Jerry's Kids

:lol:
#489920
jack_sparrow81 wrote:Where would some of these teams from the Big Sky and MVC that are ready for FBS go if FCS went away?
The newly formed Freedom Conference! (Liberty Conference doesn't have the same ring to it)

:checkeredflag :cheerleader :pbjtime :cheerleader :flamingdevil
#489956
I've been following this story and just had to comment. I say stay put. At the FCS level Liberty can go to the playoffs and compete for a national championship. At the FBS level their ceiling is a conference championship and a silly bowl game; the Power 5 has the playoffs on lock.
#489989
lawrenceq wrote:I say stay put. At the FCS level Liberty can go to the playoffs and compete for a national championship
Who cares? I mean, I want Liberty to do as well as they can, to "bloom where they are planted." I would LOVE to see Liberty win a "national championship." I would rather see them play against better teams, more often.

There aint 5% of ESPN fans that can tell you who "won" the FCS football championship last year.
User avatar
By LUminary
Registration Days Posts
#489998
That's the thing with me. Well, two things. Besides being the best we can possibly be (and that means playing at the highest level), the schedule upgrade would be welcomed and wonderful.
By JakeP50
Registration Days Posts
#490007
Ok, that article has more curious now. What the heck does "more than one option" mean? I'm not surprised JFLJR didn't elaborate but saying something like that when we haven't talked to C-USA or anyone else and aren't planning to sue for Indy status what else could there be?
#490009
JakeP50 wrote:Ok, that article has more curious now. What the heck does "more than one option" mean? I'm not surprised JFLJR didn't elaborate but saying something like that when we haven't talked to C-USA or anyone else and aren't planning to sue for Indy status what else could there be?
I like the vagaries of that phrase.
#490025
lawrenceq wrote:I've been following this story and just had to comment. I say stay put. At the FCS level Liberty can go to the playoffs and compete for a national championship. At the FBS level their ceiling is a conference championship and a silly bowl game; the Power 5 has the playoffs on lock.
I kind of agree with you. However that bridge has probably burned. In order to play well at the FCS level every year, we need to get into a much better conference. Because we have already announced that we want to go to FBS, it would take a heck of a campaign to convince any conference that we would stay FCS. I don't see us changing our mind on the FBS dream anyway.
#490045
alabama24 wrote:
lawrenceq wrote:I say stay put. At the FCS level Liberty can go to the playoffs and compete for a national championship
Who cares? I mean, I want Liberty to do as well as they can, to "bloom where they are planted." I would LOVE to see Liberty win a "national championship." I would rather see them play against better teams, more often.

There aint 5% of ESPN fans that can tell you who "won" the FCS football championship last year.
1. Im an ESPN fan
2. North Dakota State won it last year...over Illinois State if Im not mistaken
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#490054
I think the term "suing" is what a lot of detractors are getting hung up on. With the past few decades of frivolous lawsuits getting media attention, you hear that word and roll your eyes a bit. But it's a way of updating/changing/getting things done in our legal system. I'm certainly no legal expert but I think it would go a little something like this in layman terms so as not to trigger your auto eye roll

we formally ask the NCAA to change the rule or allow an exception. If whatever committee they have comes up with "no" or simply won't respond, we go through the legal system and challenge the rule because it's original intention we feel doesn't apply to this circumstance. We'd probably wind up with some sort of independent arbitrator that would come up with a final ruling or compromise. And then it would be over and we'd have an answer good or bad.

It doesn't have to be us "throwing a tantrum for not getting our way" or anything. It's just the mechanism that is available for us to get this done. Maybe the NCAA will one day have a live chat on their website where you can see about getting rules updated/changed, but until that day we're stuck with this reasonable process.
#490055
LUconn wrote:I think the term "suing" is what a lot of detractors are getting hung up on. With the past few decades of frivolous lawsuits getting media attention, you hear that word and roll your eyes a bit. But it's a way of updating/changing/getting things done in our legal system. I'm certainly no legal expert but I think it would go a little something like this in layman terms so as not to trigger your auto eye roll

we formally ask the NCAA to change the rule or allow an exception. If whatever committee they have comes up with "no" or simply won't respond, we go through the legal system and challenge the rule because it's original intention we feel doesn't apply to this circumstance. We'd probably wind up with some sort of independent arbitrator that would come up with a final ruling or compromise. And then it would be over and we'd have an answer good or bad.

It doesn't have to be us "throwing a tantrum for not getting our way" or anything. It's just the mechanism that is available for us to get this done. Maybe the NCAA will one day have a live chat on their website where you can see about getting rules updated/changed, but until that day we're stuck with this reasonable process.

That's one way to spin it
#490057
LUconn wrote:I think the term "suing" is what a lot of detractors are getting hung up on. With the past few decades of frivolous lawsuits getting media attention, you hear that word and roll your eyes a bit. But it's a way of updating/changing/getting things done in our legal system. I'm certainly no legal expert but I think it would go a little something like this in layman terms so as not to trigger your auto eye roll

we formally ask the NCAA to change the rule or allow an exception. If whatever committee they have comes up with "no" or simply won't respond, we go through the legal system and challenge the rule because it's original intention we feel doesn't apply to this circumstance. We'd probably wind up with some sort of independent arbitrator that would come up with a final ruling or compromise. And then it would be over and we'd have an answer good or bad.

It doesn't have to be us "throwing a tantrum for not getting our way" or anything. It's just the mechanism that is available for us to get this done. Maybe the NCAA will one day have a live chat on their website where you can see about getting rules updated/changed, but until that day we're stuck with this reasonable process.
That sounds great, and if it were any other school not named Liberty University, I would buy in. However, our perception among schools/conferences is one that we'll do anything to get to FBS at any cost. It wouldn't be looked at as simply challenging the system. That will lead to it being harder to schedule games, especially if we require home and homes with like minded schools like we do now.

Also, if we go independent, I could see the Big South voting to get rid of us in all sports. We're currently the only school offering FCOA in sports other than basketball. That's an unfair advantage in their eyes so, for the sake of competitive balance, I could see schools wanting to get rid of us.
#490058
LUconn wrote:Removing emotion and preconceived biases is the opposite of spin.
Not really and not possible. But a laudable effort none the less
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#490061
SuperJon wrote:
LUconn wrote:I think the term "suing" is what a lot of detractors are getting hung up on. With the past few decades of frivolous lawsuits getting media attention, you hear that word and roll your eyes a bit. But it's a way of updating/changing/getting things done in our legal system. I'm certainly no legal expert but I think it would go a little something like this in layman terms so as not to trigger your auto eye roll

we formally ask the NCAA to change the rule or allow an exception. If whatever committee they have comes up with "no" or simply won't respond, we go through the legal system and challenge the rule because it's original intention we feel doesn't apply to this circumstance. We'd probably wind up with some sort of independent arbitrator that would come up with a final ruling or compromise. And then it would be over and we'd have an answer good or bad.

It doesn't have to be us "throwing a tantrum for not getting our way" or anything. It's just the mechanism that is available for us to get this done. Maybe the NCAA will one day have a live chat on their website where you can see about getting rules updated/changed, but until that day we're stuck with this reasonable process.
That sounds great, and if it were any other school not named Liberty University, I would buy in. However, our perception among schools/conferences is one that we'll do anything to get to FBS at any cost. It wouldn't be looked at as simply challenging the system. That will lead to it being harder to schedule games, especially if we require home and homes with like minded schools like we do now.

Also, if we go independent, I could see the Big South voting to get rid of us in all sports. We're currently the only school offering FCOA in sports other than basketball. That's an unfair advantage in their eyes so, for the sake of competitive balance, I could see schools wanting to get rid of us.
I think that first paragraph is more your hang ups with the school than other schools' concerns. Nobody would resent us for it because it wouldn't affect them in any way.

But as to the rest of what you said, yes being indy would present a lot of challenges. It's certainly not an ideal situation and that's basically where the discussion should be. Not whether or not it is right for us to take legal action, but whether or not BEING indy is even survivable. Long term, I don't think it is, but the strategy is to be better positioned for the next game of FBS musical chairs in the short term. It's a high risk/reward move.
#490062
LUconn wrote: It's certainly not an ideal situation and that's basically where the discussion should be. Not whether or not it is right for us to take legal action, but whether or not BEING indy is even survivable. Long term, I don't think it is, but the strategy is to be better positioned for the next game of FBS musical chairs in the short term. It's a high risk/reward move.
Since we can agree to disagree on how we're perceived in the athletic community, I'll tackle this part.

The strategy of going indy is based around the idea that there will be more musical chairs in the future. Where does that come from? If the NCAA rules that 10-team leagues can have a championship game, the Big XII will stay at ten. The Sun Belt will boot NMSU and Idaho when their contracts are up. That would leave Idaho, BYU, NMSU, UMass, Army, and Liberty as FBS Independents hoping for a spot at the table. It doesn't take into account JMU, Jacksonville State, EKU, NDSU, and Montana as possibilities to fill those spots as well.

The issue then becomes that the leagues are stable. Unless the P5 tries to form the super conferences of 16-teams, there's nowhere to go. There's the chance of the NCAA allowing those independents to form their own conference, but even then, is being in a nationwide league in football while our other sports flounder really the place we want our school to be in? Not only that, but that conference would take years before they could even get a bowl game tie in. We're looking at 5-10 years at best before a postseason is even in play.

We'd do all of this on the off chance we could convince 8-10 public school presidents to allow us into their league?
#490075
I disagree with the.Bowl Tie in or floundering in our other sports. I like the Trans-Continent Conference (using Trams is popular these days). There will be Bowls jumping for a Conference Champ tie in. Our other sports will be fine. BYU would dominate the Conference for awhile though
#490082
lawrenceq wrote:
alabama24 wrote:There aint 5% of ESPN fans that can tell you who "won" the FCS football championship last year.
I was kind of with you until this line. Who really cares about ESPN fans and what they know?
Would you rather have me said: "There aint 1% of Shopping Channel fans that can tell you who "won" the FCS football championship last year?" lol

My point should be fairly obvious. Only BJ and those associated with the schools that won the FCS football championship actually know who won the championship... And not even all of those know. :wink:
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