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What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 3:56 pm
by SuperJon
For the last three weeks, one of the biggest questions that's been asked around here is the question of, "Is there something across the board at Liberty that is holding us back from taking the next step?" In a post that is probably way too long for the majority to read, I think I've pinpointed the three biggest areas that are holding us back. Feel free to rip it apart. You may agree with parts and disagree with others. My hope is that we can get back to what this board used to be and have an intelligent conversation about where we are as a school and athletic department.

The Three Biggest Things Holding Us Back

1) Institutional Arrogance - no one wants anything to do with us because we are the new rich kids on the block and like to flaunt it.

We are, for lack of a better term, Richie Rich. We are the rich kids who are trying to buy our way into friendships with other rich people. The problem is, unlike them, we got rich by our daddy hitting it big in the dot com industry whereas they all come from old money. We moved into the neighborhood flaunting everything that we had and we turned everyone off.

Did you know that the MAC voted 11-0 against allowing us to join? They don't want their coaches coming down here and seeing the money we're throwing around and then start asking for similar things. In our efforts to prove our worth, we've alienated the schools in the leagues we're wanting to join. We are essentially claiming, "Hey, we have nicer stuff that you. Come play with us!"

All we ever do is throw around that we can make a decision in 48 hours, that we are the best fit for an FBS jump that Bill Carr has ever seen, that we have close to a billion dollars in the bank, and one of a hundred other company line marketing ploys to make us sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

Unfortunately for us, we don't have any legitimate successes to hang our hat on. We don't have multiple national championships like App or Georgia Southern. We don't have long-standing playoff appearances like JMU and Jacksonville State. We don't even have giant TV markets like Georgia State or ODU. What we have is a bunch of money made off of online education and we continue to tirelessly brag about that to public schools who are having to endure budget cuts, increasing tuition, alumni who are disconnected, and who likely see online education in a completely different light than we do.

That all leads us to the next problem that's holding us back:

2) A Misconception of Who We Are - we try to act big time so people will see us as big time and in turn have created an entitlement issue among athletes and fans.

In 2006, when Jeff Barber got here, he was given an athletic department that was coming off a day known as Black Tuesday. You know something monumental has happened when it is big enough and negative enough to get it's own name. He had some of the core pieces in place from an administrative standpoint, but there was a perception issue among students, alumni, and prospective athletes that said Liberty Athletics weren't a big deal.

Jeff did what any good leader is supposed to do in that situation: he set out to change not only the perception, but also the culture. His goal was to make us a Top 25 athletic department and to get there, we needed top 25 coaches, recruits, and facilities.

Some schools take on the attitude of, "Let me prove it to you." In the beginning, we had that attitude. It was a unifying mantra that inspired coaches and athletes to work harder to prove we were legit. Fans and alumni showed up to prove that we could be a great fan base and could make great atmospheres at games.

Fast forward to the end of the 2009-2010 seasons. We'd won a few conference titles in football. We had a fun year or two in basketball. Baseball was making a run in the Big South. However, we'd also gone through the Curry/McKay debacle. We'd endured a few WTF losses in football. Baseball couldn't beat Coastal. At that point in time, we went from proving why we were a big time program to telling you why we already were one.

And it was at that point the things shifted: we all bought it.

Going into the 2010 season, there was a different attitude around our athletics. We thought we would have success because we were told we would. Without having ever actually gotten over the barrier, we (athletes and fans) believed it was our destiny to make the next step. We became the program that, if this were a high school, were the new kid walking down the hall saying, "Act like you belong, act like you belong. You are big time. You are big time."

Our school took on the attitude of, "Let me tell you why." In light of that, our athletes and fans bought into the reasons why without it ever being proven to us. We were cocky and expectant even when we had nothing to base those attitudes on.

The truth about who we actually are as an athletic program is that we're a program that's only been Division I for just under 25 years and is still building to become what we want to be. We're not there yet. That leads us to point #3:

3) No Tradition - not only have we not set a tradition of winning, we are still super young as a school.

We became a Division I school in 1989. From 1989 to 2006, we endured a men's basketball coaching scandal that led to becoming the worst team in Division I. We had 7 winning seasons in football from 1989 until Rocco/Barber got here in 06. From 1998 until 2005, we had a grand total of one winning season. We've now had some success the past seven years and think it's our right to move up to the next level. We are the equivalent of a 25-year-old college grad thinking he's paid his dues by working hard for a few years and now deserves influence and a big boy job. We are trying to skip the process of working up.

Take a look at the schools that we've been competing with for conference invitations and how we compare with them since 1989.

Appalachian State: 23 winning seasons, 18 playoff appearances
Georgia Southern: 21 winning seasons, 15 playoff appearances
Old Dominion: 3 winning seasons, 2 playoff appearances
Sam Houston State: 12 winning seasons, 5 playoff appearances
Jacksonville State: 12 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances
Liberty: 14 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances

We haven't had the on-field success to overcome our other perceived flaws (our politics, being a private school, being a Christian school). We are on our way to getting to that level, but we are expecting to have now what we haven't yet earned.

There are obviously more issues, but I feel as though these are the top three. All of these things are able to be overcome. A few years of making the playoffs in football, a change in our marketing approaches, and a change in departmental attitude are all completely attainable and will go a long way in helping us get to the level that we want to be at.

We will be FBS at some point. Eventually we're going to be there when someone needs us and we'll be an asset for that league, but until then we'll have to be patient. We must stop begging, we must stop flaunting everything, and we must change our approach. If we do those things, we will find the path to FBS.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 4:33 pm
by SuperJon
Wins and losses don't matter as much at most schools. That's why a team like Georgia State can get an invite. However, at Liberty, you're having to overcome so many other things that aren't athletics related that you needed something to hang your hat on. Right now, we have nothing other than facilities and money.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 4:38 pm
by LUconn
Your first point you call "arrogance" but that entire entry is written about us having money and spending it on our program. If other schools are turned off by that, should we not be upgrading? We're trying to make ourselves as attractive as possible. Facilities and commitment to athletics is always one of the top characteristics listed in these realignment discussions.

As for tradition, there's nothing you can do about that so no use worrying about it. It may hold us back but it's not something tangible you can change without decades.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 4:47 pm
by SuperJon
There's nothing wrong with us upgrading our stuff. The "arrogance" comes when we begin flaunting it everywhere and to everyone. This is something I have heard from three different people who have said other conference presidents and ADs don't like the way we flaunt all of our assets. It's the difference in new money vs old money.

The only thing to "change" tradition is to win the big OOC games a few times, make the playoffs a few times, and take the next step athletically. If we can do that, we can overcome the newness. Look at Jax St. They've only been Division I since 1995 and have been in conversations to make the jump. The difference is they've made the playoffs a few times.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 5:15 pm
by SuperJon
There's that too.

If I'm not mistaken, there hasn't been a private university jump from FCS to FBS since the Division I split in 1978.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 5:29 pm
by BJWilliams
I do tend to agree with LUConn as far as the money thing. I dont think that we should have simply let our facilities languish in the state that they are. One would think, ideally, that a school with that level of commitment to upgrading their facilities AND having the financial wherewithal (sp?) to make those upgrades happen should make someone like Liberty MORE attractive to conferences.

As for tradition, again I defer to LUConn. Establishing tradition takes two things that many people seem to have difficulty handling: time and patience. Look at Ohio State for instance. Everyone knows the history of "dotting the i" with the marching band, but the reason everyone knows about it is because its been a consistent part of the gameday experience for 77 years. If they had a different routine every year, Script Ohio would not be the iconic moment that it is, with people like Woody Hayes, Bob Hope, John Glenn and Jack Nicklaus all getting an opportunity to fulfill that tradition. Will we ever have traditions? maybe...but it takes time for something to go from being a gimmick to being a tradition. Take the first down chant for instance. Its taken some time but the students have bought in, and its a sight to behold to see about 8,000 or so students motioning to "move those chains". The band has their concert arcs that they do before pregame where they play, but that has only been going on for I think two years (by the way, the band's rendition of Be Thou My Vision gives me chills every time I get a chance to watch the arcs at the Welcome Center). It will take time as, like a scientist, experiment with what works and what doesn't work as it relates to the gameday experience. As for the on-field product, yes winning some big OOC games helps, but that also can be a bit of a chicken vs. egg proposition. If teams don't want to play us, then how can we get those "signature" OOC games that we need to win to help build positive tradition.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 5:35 pm
by SuperJon
BJWilliams wrote:I do tend to agree with LUConn as far as the money thing. I dont think that we should have simply let our facilities languish in the state that they are. One would think, ideally, that a school with that level of commitment to upgrading their facilities AND having the financial wherewithal (sp?) to make those upgrades happen should make someone like Liberty MORE attractive to conferences.
C'mon Beej, read a little bit. It's not about the facilities and upgrades. Arrogance is an attitude much more than an action.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 6:00 pm
by BJWilliams
Im talking about beyond 2014. Next year the games of note that we know of are JMU (in Harrisonburg), Richmond (in Lynchburg, with possibly Michael Rocco at the helm), and UNC. There isnt much inkling as to who this FCS team we have coming to town is so I will wait to pass judgement on that. The "mid-major" FBS could be a game of note depending on who we get (from what I can tell our options are C-USA, MAC and Sun Belt. (and there are some very bad teams in each). What our schedule looks like in 2015 and forward...remains to be seen

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 6:23 pm
by PAmedic
ho-lee crap SJ nice job.

that MAC thing is mind blowing. and I'm sure you wouldn't have posted it if you weren't sure about it.

that fact alone SHOULD have admin re-evaluating how we're doing business.

very depressing.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 6:57 pm
by BJWilliams
I frankly don't think that the MAC being against our being offered membership is simply comes down to us going "ooh! Im a man! Ohh I have a (word redacted...this is a family site)! Ooh! I like to exert my power over women!" sort of attitude (bonus points to whoever gets that reference) about how much money we have. As I said in support of LUConn's comments, the fact that we have not only the willingness to upgrade our facilities, but the financial wherewithal to do so, when we invite presidents from prospective conferences to come check out our campus, that should have, I would think, the opposite effect.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 7:23 pm
by BJWilliams
If they are seriously threatened by a school that actually has the financial ability to afford to make whatever upgrades are necessary to their facilities to make them appealing and/or competitive as an FBS school, to quote a certain radio host, "that's a you problem". That said, it doesnt give us a right to go all Globo Gym (bonus points for getting that reference as well), but the fact that we can pay for upgrades that we would need being a threat is as much on the conferences who don't want to have someone who can "outspend" them as much as it is on us to not act like we are better than them because we can afford to make those changes.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:00 pm
by flameshaw
SuperJon wrote:
BJWilliams wrote:I do tend to agree with LUConn as far as the money thing. I dont think that we should have simply let our facilities languish in the state that they are. One would think, ideally, that a school with that level of commitment to upgrading their facilities AND having the financial wherewithal (sp?) to make those upgrades happen should make someone like Liberty MORE attractive to conferences.
C'mon Beej, read a little bit. It's not about the facilities and upgrades. Arrogance is an attitude much more than an action.
I haven't seen evidence of the arrogance at all. Maybe I am just not in the right places. We really don't have a lot to be arrogant about, so it surprises me that it seems to be an issue.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:08 pm
by SuperJon
The flaunting aspect is that the money, facilities, etc are the reasons we always give for being FBS ready. We don't talk about the product on the field.

We basically walked into the MAC and the Sun Belt, two areas not rolling in money, and flaunted that we had unlimited resources to use to put together a product on the field. That's prideful arrogance right there.

The other showing of our arrogance is in how we schedule. We aren't willing to take 2 for 1's with the big time FCS schools because we refuse to believe that we aren't on their level. We think it would be beneath us to accept anything other than a home and home. That is the definition of arrogance. By doing that, we take away chances to actually go play teams that we could potentially beat, thus earning us the actual respect that we think we already deserve.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:16 pm
by Purple Haize
A couple of corrections on an otherwise brilliant post by SJ
1. People actually. LIKED Richie Rich.
2. Not everyone bought because they saw something being given and not earned. These people were shouted down but found solace in The Dark Side :flamingdevil
3. I wouldn't say the basketball controversy started way back in 89. 98 maybe.
4. I liked your 25 yo entitlement analogy but I would use a different one for us older folks. When I see a guy a little but older than me driving a nice car, I think 'That guy has done well'. When I see someone younger than me driving the same car I think 'I wonder what it will be like when it all comes crashing down?' Of course if that guy is also wearing flashy clothes and fancy watches and rings, I KNOW this guy has a shallow level of success that will catch up with them.
5. Swagger v Bravado

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:19 pm
by SuperJon
I didn't mean to say that the basketball controversy started in 89. I was simply listing off some things that happened from 89 to 06. Poorly worded on my part.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:21 pm
by Purple Haize
SuperJon wrote:I didn't mean to say that the basketball controversy started in 89. I was simply listing off some things that happened from 89 to 06. Poorly worded on my part.
Yes it was and you shall be flogged!

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:28 pm
by phoenix
Truth to power, SJ. Truth to power.

Hoping some of the administration that reads this site reads this in the spirit it is intended, and takes it to heart.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:30 pm
by Purple Haize
phoenix wrote:Truth to power, SJ. Truth to power.

Hoping some of the administration that reads this site reads this in the spirit it is intended, and takes it to heart.
I'm sure they will. Just like the NSA :brownbag

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:35 pm
by SuperJon
phoenix wrote:Hoping some of the administration that reads this site reads this in the spirit it is intended, and takes it to heart.
I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably think I'm an even worse person than they already do and will push me further down the black list.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 8:56 pm
by Purple Haize
SuperJon wrote:
phoenix wrote:Hoping some of the administration that reads this site reads this in the spirit it is intended, and takes it to heart.
I hope so but I'm not holding my breath. They'll probably think I'm an even worse person than they already do and will push me further down the black list.
I think I she you up there..keep coming. You will be here soon

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 9:12 pm
by BJWilliams
The thing that seems to be an issue with a lot of FBS startups, especially the newer ones, is the fact that they tend to lose money at the FBS level. My interpretation (take it for what its worth) is that the administration is saying that due to the revenue streams we have (especially LUO), that we wont lose as much money, or maybe even make a small profit as an FBS school. Add to that the potential revenue from ticket sales, especially in the "big three" sports (football, basketball and baseball) and at least it makes sense to me why they feel as confident as they do about making that move up and not being a money loser.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 9:26 pm
by SuperJon
BJ, please stop posting in this thread. You just don't get it.

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 9:57 pm
by Purple Haize
BuryYourDuke wrote:We definitely would not make money on an FBS move.

And don't stop posting BJ, just try to read and understand what SJ is saying here.
I'd go so far as to say we will NEVER make money on football

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 10:19 pm
by BJWilliams
I have an idea of what SJ is saying, Im just saying that you need to look at it from both sides. While we don't necessarily need to act all Globo Gym about it ("Globo Gym, because we're better than you...and we know it"), I think its good to have confidence in what you have. If the administration feels that they are confident that they can make whatever upgrades they need to make and that money is no obstacle. that confidence is a good thing. Now, does that mean we have to say that BECAUSE we have the money do that, that we should say. "Hey, we can afford to do whatever it takes, so that is why you should let us in"? No...that would be taking that Globo Gym attitude I referenced before. At the same time, we can't just be timid and act like "Oh, I hope that conference likes us..."

Re: What's holding us back?

Posted: October 25th, 2013, 10:22 pm
by Purple Haize
BJWilliams wrote:I have an idea of what SJ is saying, Im just saying that you need to look at it from both sides. While we don't necessarily need to act all Globo Gym about it ("Globo Gym, because we're better than you...and we know it"), I think its good to have confidence in what you have. If the administration feels that they are confident that they can make whatever upgrades they need to make and that money is no obstacle. that confidence is a good thing. Now, does that mean we have to say that BECAUSE we have the money do that, that we should say. "Hey, we can afford to do whatever it takes, so that is why you should let us in"? No...that would be taking that Globo Gym attitude I referenced before. At the same time, we can't just be timid and act like "Oh, I hope that conference likes us..."
:brownbag