A Sea Of Red

I don't think you all know what you have in Coach Rocco. He is the best Coach you will ever get at Liberty. I don't think you all remember that before him you didn't win at all. Now you have a winning record every year. Yes you did not make the play offs, but go get another coach who is willing to Coach at Liberty and you will be at the bottom of the Big South every year. First of all, all you people out their who are saying you need a new coach have probably not played football or coached football a day in your life, except for maybe youth football which does not count. So if anyone replies to this thread in a negative way, who has not coached or played at the college level your thoughts shouldn't even be heard, because you have no idea. As for anyone else, go ahead. You don't know how much effort it takes to run a college program especially to have winning seasons every year. Coach Rocco works 18 hours a day for your school and you treat him like this. Great Christians you are!

First off, I don't think there is any lack of respect for Coach Rocco. Even the harshest critics will concede he has done an outstanding job building this program to where it is today. While we did enjoy some success under Coach Rutigliano, there is no question that Coach Rocco took us from about as low as we could sink and built us into a consistently strong program. Count me chief among his backers on the board.

On the other hand, it is the success that we have enjoyed that has created a thirst for more. Many here had become accustomed to improvement each year only to appear to be stagnating the past couple of years. That has given fuel to some folks who seem to exact a great of joy out of calling for somebody's else head. I would suggest that most who do this have never been removed from a job of significance in their young lives. But regardless of their own perspectives, as a student/alum/fan of the program they feel they have invested themselves in they feel an obligation to call for changes they feel will improve the program.

We began FlameFans nearly 6 years ago to give LU fans a voice to rally around in helping build a tradition of excitement around the school and athletic programs in particular. We like to feel that we helped foster the growth of support that has paralleled the improvement on the field. But if you are going to build support, it is inevitable that dissenting voices will appear as well. The only school that don't have harsh critics of their football programs are ones that nobody cares about. The fact that people are engaged even with a dissenting opinion is evidence of the growing passion of the fanbase.

Sly Fox wrote:First off, I don't think there is any lack of respect for Coach Rocco. Even the harshest critics will concede he has done an outstanding job building this program to where it is today. While did enjoy some success under Coach Rutigliano, there is no question that Coach Rocco took us from about as low as we could sink and built us into a consistently strong program. Count me chief among his backers on the board.

On the other hand, it is the success that we have enjoyed that has created a thirst for more. Many here had become accustomed to improvement each year only to appear to be stagnating the past couple of years. That has given fuel to some folks who seem to exact a great of joy out of calling for somebody's else head. I would suggest that most who do this have never been removed from a job of significance in their young lives. But regardless of their own perspectives, as a student/alum/fan of the program they feel they have invested themselves in they feel an obligation to call for changes they feel will improve the program.

We began FlameFans nearly 6 years ago to give LU fans a voice to rally around in helping build a tradition of excitement around the school and athletic programs in particular. We like to feel that we helped foster the growth of support that has paralleled the improvement on the field. But if you are going to build support, it is inevitable that dissenting voices will appear as well. The only school that don't have harsh critics of their football programs are ones that nobody cares about. The fact that people are engaged even with a dissenting opinion is evidence of the growing passion of the fanbase.

Sly, This is an awesome reply.

I have to admit it frustrates me to read such negative comments; there is a lack of grace in a lot of people's posts/rants. To say that the football program and basketball program "sucks" is not acceptable language for those who are ardent LU fans. We are fortunate to have great coaches in every sport who get the best out of the talent that is brought in. We played one of the toughest schedules in our program's history and did not fare as well as we would have liked. We will compete every year with Coach Rocco at the helm and we will be successful every year. If you measure success only as getting into the playoffs then there were about 100+ coaches (minus the 20 teams in the playoffs) in FCS that should go. Let's get behind the coach and the team and let them know that we believe in them.

Sly as always makes great points. Very well mannered.

Of course...
So if people don't feel the same as you do you label them bad Christians? Or do you just reserve that for football coaches?
Do you feel that coach Rocco is doing us a favor by coaching here? He is being very well compensated to do a job. If he was doing us a favor then he would accept less compensation or do it for free.
He works 18 hrs a day? Every day? When does he have time for sleep let alone his family.
Does DR possess some super power that makes him the only person who can lead LU to winning seasons? Some people claim Jim Tressel would want to coach here. I'm thinking he could get us some winning seasons.
Finally, there are people here and who work in the athletic office that neither played or coached on the collegiate level. They have great points and get positive things done for the program and LU athletics. Should we just discount the good since they don't meet your criteria for competency ?

My suggestion,and I will grant I am not an MD, would be to try a cereal lower in sugar and decaf.

I don't get starting a whole thread on here full of half truths. Sure there are a lot of people on here, myself included, frustrated with Danny Rocco and the lack of growth we have seen the past couple of years. What fan wouldn't be? If you aren't frustrated or can't understand the frustration then thats on you. The majority of the people on this board that talk of their frustrations start their posts with, "Danny Rocco has done great things for this program" or something similar. There are very few people, if any, who are not thankful for the progress we have made under Danny Rocco all we want is to get a return on these investment this University has invested in this program.

I don't understand why that is hard to understand.

BuryYourDuke wrote:Players and recent former players who aren't accustomed to the scrutiny that comes with big time college football should avoid fan message boards. I don't want Rocco gone. What I want gone is the attitude at this football team, athletic department, and whole school. The attitude that anyone that has any criticism or doesn't agree with every little decision made is a traitor or something. Don't like criticism? You have a choice, don't think about becoming big time, or ignore it. My suggestion is that you behave like the athletes, coaches, and administration at top flight institutions and be above the noise.

an I promised myself I wouldn't cry

Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d, Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d.

No disrespect meant to anyone, but boards like this are a haven for the scorn’d with an ax to grind.

Danny Rocco and staff have to go out and recruit 17 and 18 year old jocks to come to a devoutly Christian school. 1 out of 100, 17 and 18 year olds are spiritually mature enough to choose Liberty. I think he does a remarkable job. We have been blessed with a guy that can pull it off ... Be careful what you wish for. Danny Rocco, without one arm tied behind his back (The Liberty Way) would shine at East Carolina. And I dare say, ECU would have no problem compensating him. He's here for a reason .... he believes in what LU is trying to do ... and he cares about his players.

The program disparately needs to move to the next level so it can broaden its recruiting reach. We need the best Christian athletes from across the country ... not a new coach if you ask me?

TH Spangler wrote:

Heav’n has no Rage, like Love to Hatred turn’d, Nor Hell a Fury, like a Woman scorn’d.

No disrespect meant to anyone, but boards like this are a haven for those with an ax to grind.

Danny Rocco and staff have to go out and recruit 17 and 18 year old jocks to come to a devoutly Christian school. 1 out of one 100, 17 and 18 year olds are spiritually mature enough to choose Liberty. I think he does a remarkable job. We have been blessed with a guy that can pull it off ... Be careful what you wish for. Danny Rocco, without one arm tied behind his back (The Liberty Way) would shine at East Carolina. And I dare say ECU would have no problem compensating him. He's here for a reason .... he believes in what LU is trying to do ... and he cares about his players.

The program disparately needs to move to the next level so it can broaden is recruiting reach. We need the best Christian athletes from across the country ... not a new coach if you ask me?

Maybe this board is no place for women! J/k

wishbone27 wrote:I don't think you all know what you have in Coach Rocco. He is the best Coach you will ever get at Liberty. I don't think you all remember that before him you didn't win at all. Now you have a winning record every year. Yes you did not make the play offs, but go get another coach who is willing to Coach at Liberty and you will be at the bottom of the Big South every year. First of all, all you people out their who are saying you need a new coach have probably not played football or coached football a day in your life, except for maybe youth football which does not count. So if anyone replies to this thread in a negative way, who has not coached or played at the college level your thoughts shouldn't even be heard, because you have no idea. As for anyone else, go ahead. You don't know how much effort it takes to run a college program especially to have winning seasons every year. Coach Rocco works 18 hours a day for your school and you treat him like this. Great Christians you are!

I enjoyed reading the responses from Sly and others. I'm not near as mannerly as they are and this is one of the dumbest statements I have seen. First off, he isn't the best coach that we will ever get at Liberty. Unless you're God, and I'm assuming that you aren't, there's absolutely no way to predict that. I appreciate what Rocco has done for the program, but that doesn't hide that we aren't where we want to be in terms of success. When we were winning one or two games a year, all of us would have given almost anything to win 6 to 7 games a year. However, once this athletic department and the alumni saw the potential of the football program, they decided to invest. Rocco was given a really nice contract, our stadium was renovated to become one of the nicest in the country and the football facilities were renovated. The point is that a lot of people have invested a ton of money into this football program. Those investments never would have been made and should have never been made if someone's vision wasn't a really big successful football team. It's like investing your money into a company. You would research everything about that company before you bought their stock. If you then bought it and it fell below your expectations for a certain period, you would then sell it.
Rocco is making somewhere around $250,000 a year to make this program be really successful. If we're paying him, then we have the right to call him out despite our football experience. Anyone who would be classified as paying him would be anyone who has contributed anything to the school. Furthermore, just because some don't have any football experience doesn't mean they aren't a credible source. For example, Bill Bellicheck(spelling) had almost no previous football experience before he got into coaching. Look at how he's faired. Roger Goodell has never coached or played a game in his life, yet he makes credible football decisions every day. Almost half of the people at ESPN have absolutely no prior sports experience yet, they make public opinions every day that have an effect on a sport. The point is that we don't have to know anything about football to be able to judge someone about it. It doesn't take a genius to look at results and make a decision. I'm not advocating that we fire Rocco by any means, however, to say that the majority of the people on this board don't know what they are talking about is stupid.
I don't care how much effort it takes to run a College football program and I don't care if Rocco has done a "good job" or not. My concern is that there are many other schools having success in areas that we should be. My concern is that SB, a program that barely invest in their football, has passed us in terms of a more successful history. There is nothing in the bible about being critical and I don't think LU should have to settle for average results.

Purple Haize wrote:Maybe this board is no place for women! J/k

Programs have to make tough decisions. It took UCF less than 2 days to make some of those tough decisions. UCF is a school at the FBS level that is pretty much like us in a lot of ways. They just can't get over the hump and become a team of national relevancy much like we can't get over the hump and make the playoffs. I wish we were as fast at making personnel changes as UCF was

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/c ... 0658.story

Chippy, who said the football and mens hoops programs suck?

The one that first jumps to mind is FF4E (of course no one actually takes him seriously...)

Look at the first post on here. He talks about liberty as "you all". He's clearly not even an LU fan. Just somebody who clearly is another fan from another school who had nothing else to do.

I'm going to use this thread to introduce something that my uncle and I discussed: a coach grading system. First, here's the formula: You get 0 points for games that you were supposed to win, you get 1 point for winning toss up games, you lose 1 point for losing those games, you get 3 points for winning a game that you shouldn't win and you lose 3 points for losing a game that you should win.

Using that formula, let's examine Danny Rocco

2006

vs St. Paul's College W - should win - 0 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 0 points
@ Towson L - should lose - 0 points
@ Savannah St. W - should win - 0 points
@ Wake Forest L - should lose - 0 points
vs W&M L - toss up - -1 point
vs Gardner Webb L - should lose - 0 points
@ Coastal L - should lose - 0 points
vs WCU - W - toss up - 1 point
vs Charleston Southern - W - should lose - 3 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 0 points

First year: 3 points


2007

vs Tusculum W - should win - 0 points
vs Shippensburg W - should win - 0 points
@ W&M L - should lose - points
@ Elon L - should lose - 0 points
vs St. Francis (PA) W - should win - 0 points
@ Toledo L - should lose - 0 points
@ CSU - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points

2007 total - 1 point

2008

vs North Greenville W - should win - 0 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 0 points
@ WCU - W - should win - 0 points
@ YSU - W - should win - 0 points
@ Coastal - W - should win - 0 points
vs SB - W - should win - 0 points
vs Lafayette - L - toss up - -1 point
@ Presby - L - should win - -3 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 0 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
vs Elon - W - toss up - 1 point

2008 total: -3 points

2009

@ WVU - L - should lose - 0 points
vs NC Central - W - should win - 0 points
@ Lafayette - W - toss up - 1 point
vs JMU - L - toss up - -1 point
vs WV Wesleyan - W - should win - 0 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@ Charleston Southern - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
@ SB - L - toss up - -1 point

2009 total - 0 points

2010

vs ST. Francis (PA) W - should win - 0 points
@ Ball St. W - should lose - 3 points
@ RM L - toss up - -1 point
@ JMU - toss up - -1 point
vs Savannah St. W - should win - 0 points
vs CSU - W - should win - 0 points
@ VMi - W - should win - 0 points
@ Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
@ Coastal L - toss up - -1 point
vs SB - W - should win - 0 points

2010 total - 0 points

2011

@ NC State - L - should lose - 0 points
vs RM - W - should win - 0 points
vs JMU - L - toss up - -1 point
@ Lehigh - L - toss up - -1 point
vs KWU - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@CSU - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby W - should win - 0 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ SB - L - toss up - -1 point

2011 total: - 2 points

Total: -1 point. Grade: Average

Again, I don't think that he is a horrible coach but I don't question if we could do better either.

I'm not a rocco fan but even I know that's a pretty stupid way to judge a coach.

jbock13 wrote:I'm not a rocco fan but even I know that's a pretty stupid way to judge a coach.

Not necessarily . Most coaches do the same thing in self evaluations. Every schedule has games you should win, should lose and toss ups. It is not always easy to win the games u are supposed to win. Talented teams and coaches can find a way to win more of the 50/50 games then they lose and comeup with an upset here and there.
While I'm not sure I would use the same point scale the theory is good. How many 50/50 games have we won? How many upsets? How many times have we benn upset? Assign your own point values as you see fit.

cjsweat wrote:I'm going to use this thread to introduce something that my uncle and I discussed: a coach grading system. First, here's the formula: You get 0 points for games that you were supposed to win, you get 1 point for winning toss up games, you lose 1 point for losing those games, you get 3 points for winning a game that you shouldn't win and you lose 3 points for losing a game that you should win.

Using that formula, let's examine Danny Rocco

2006

vs St. Paul's College W - should win - 0 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 0 points
@ Towson L - should lose - 0 points
@ Savannah St. W - should win - 0 points
@ Wake Forest L - should lose - 0 points
vs W&M L - toss up - -1 point
vs Gardner Webb L - should lose - 0 points
@ Coastal L - should lose - 0 points
vs WCU - W - toss up - 1 point
vs Charleston Southern - W - should lose - 3 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 0 points

First year: 3 points


2007

vs Tusculum W - should win - 0 points
vs Shippensburg W - should win - 0 points
@ W&M L - should lose - points
@ Elon L - should lose - 0 points
vs St. Francis (PA) W - should win - 0 points
@ Toledo L - should lose - 0 points
@ CSU - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points

2007 total - 1 point

2008

vs North Greenville W - should win - 0 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 0 points
@ WCU - W - should win - 0 points
@ YSU - W - should win - 0 points
@ Coastal - W - should win - 0 points
vs SB - W - should win - 0 points
vs Lafayette - L - toss up - -1 point
@ Presby - L - should win - -3 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 0 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
vs Elon - W - toss up - 1 point

2008 total: -3 points

2009

@ WVU - L - should lose - 0 points
vs NC Central - W - should win - 0 points
@ Lafayette - W - toss up - 1 point
vs JMU - L - toss up - -1 point
vs WV Wesleyan - W - should win - 0 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@ Charleston Southern - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
@ SB - L - toss up - -1 point

2009 total - 0 points

2010

vs ST. Francis (PA) W - should win - 0 points
@ Ball St. W - should lose - 3 points
@ RM L - toss up - -1 point
@ JMU - toss up - -1 point
vs Savannah St. W - should win - 0 points
vs CSU - W - should win - 0 points
@ VMi - W - should win - 0 points
@ Presby - W - should win - 0 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
@ Coastal L - toss up - -1 point
vs SB - W - should win - 0 points

2010 total - 0 points

2011

@ NC State - L - should lose - 0 points
vs RM - W - should win - 0 points
vs JMU - L - toss up - -1 point
@ Lehigh - L - toss up - -1 point
vs KWU - W - should win - 0 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 0 points
Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@CSU - W - should win - 0 points
vs Presby W - should win - 0 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 0 points
@ SB - L - toss up - -1 point

2011 total: - 2 points

Total: -1 point. Grade: Average

Again, I don't think that he is a horrible coach but I don't question if we could do better either.

Id use a system like this:

Should win: 1 point
Shouldnt win: 2 points
Lose a Should win: -1 point
Lose a Shouldnt win: 0
Toss up: 1 point for a win, 0 points for a loss

With that in mind...

2006

vs St. Paul's College W - should win - 1 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 1 points
@ Towson L - should lose - 0 points
@ Savannah St. W - should win - 1 points
@ Wake Forest L - should lose - 0 points
vs W&M L - toss up - 0 point
vs Gardner Webb L - should lose - 0 points
@ Coastal L - should lose - 0 points
vs WCU - W - toss up - 1 point
vs Charleston Southern - W - should lose - 2 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 1 points

First year: 7 points


2007

vs Tusculum W - should win - 1 points
vs Shippensburg W - should win - 1 points
@ W&M L - should lose - 0 points
@ Elon L - should lose - 0 points
vs St. Francis (PA) W - should win - 1 points
@ Toledo L - should lose - 0 points
@ CSU - W - should win - 1 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 1 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
vs VMI - W - should win - 1 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 1 points

2007 total - 8 points

2008

vs North Greenville W - should win - 1 points
vs Glenville St. W - should win - 1 points
@ WCU - W - should win - 1 points
@ YSU - W - toss up - 1 points
@ Coastal - W - should win - 1 points
vs SB - W - should win - 1 points
vs Lafayette - L - toss up - 0 points
@ Presby - L - should win - -1 points
@ VMI - W - should win - 1 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 1 points
vs Elon - W - toss up - 1 point

2008 total: 8 points

2009

@ WVU - L - should lose - 0 points
vs NC Central - W - should win - 1 points
@ Lafayette - W - toss up - 1 point
vs JMU - L - toss up - 0 point
vs WV Wesleyan - W - should win - 1 points
vs Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@ Charleston Southern - W - should win - 1 points
vs Presby - W - should win - 1 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 1 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 1 points
@ SB - L - toss up - 0 point

2009 total - 8 points

2010

vs ST. Francis (PA) W - should win - 1 points
@ Ball St. W - should lose - 2 points
@ RM L - toss up - 0 point
@ JMU - toss up - 0 point
vs Savannah St. W - should win - 1 points
vs CSU - W - should win - 1 points
@ VMi - W - should win - 1 points
@ Presby - W - should win - 1 points
vs Gardner Webb - W - should win - 1 points
@ Coastal L - toss up - 0 point
vs SB - W - should win - 1 points

2010 total - 9 points

2011

@ NC State - L - should lose - 0 points
vs RM - W - should win - 1 points
vs JMU - L - toss up - 0 point
@ Lehigh - L - toss up - 0 point
vs KWU - W - should win - 1 points
@ Gardner Webb - W - should win - 1 points
Coastal - W - toss up - 1 point
@CSU - W - should win - 1 points
vs Presby W - should win - 1 points
vs VMI - W - should win - 1 points
@ SB - L - toss up - 0 point

2011 total: - 7 points

Total: 47 points

Id give him an Average rating but will certainly say that we took a step back this year.

That's a pretty good system. However, I don't think you should be rewarded for winning games that you should win. I also think that every great coach is determined by how many toss up games that they've won. Les Miles, Nick Saban, Steve Spurrier, Pete Carrol are a few that come to mind who are excellent at winning toss up games. I especially think that in college football, where one loss can be detrimental to a season, you have win a majority of toss up games to be a good coach. I'm not dissing your style, just my thoughts.

If everyone agrees that Rocco is nothing more than average, the next question is, are we okay with average?

If you call what he is done is average I hope he leaves this year and I hope you all enjoy poor.

wishbone27 wrote:If you call what he is done is average I hope he leaves this year and I hope you all enjoy poor.

Well how can you argue with such fool proof reasoning ? Such wonderful insight. I mean I never called for him to be fired but I think I might now so that I can say I changed my mind back because of this brilliant insight.
So for the record:
Not calling for being fired
Changed mind to call for firing so that my mind can be changed to
Not calling for his firing because of Wishbones persuasive arguments.

wishbone27 wrote:If you call what he is done is average I hope he leaves this year and I hope you all enjoy poor.

Keep in mind that there are very few who sincerely believe we should let Coach Rocco go. Please do not lump either the LU fanbase or the members of this site into this generality. Coach Rocco has been a great coach for LU. Of course there are some decisions that we disagree with him on from time to time. I would suspect there are some decisions that Coach Rocco would make differently with the benefit of hindsight. But the majority of LU fans recognize what a terrific job he has done thus far.

This guy's a phony.

No, he's not.

why is anyone even replying, your opinion doesn't count to this guy remember. If you don't coach your not of intelligence and you can't respond coherently according to this guy. I think you hit the nail on the head BYD.