[Ill flame]

Looking at how weak most future schedules are, I would like to see us win 8+ games a year most season. Doing this with our schedule probably won't earn us the respect we want unless we beat a couple p5's along the way. It would go a long way towards growing our fanbase though which is arguably one of the biggest thing holding us back right now as others have said above. The goal right now should be to put us in the best position possible to get into a solid conference in the future if we want that respect.

[ballcoach15]

Our fanbase is lacking in every sport. It's probably better in baseball than any other sport. I think our marketing strategy needs tweaking, but I don't know solution.
I live about 40 miles from LU, and there's no marketing in my area. I am sure it's hurting in all directions from Lynchburg. We need to bring in casual fans, not just alumni.

[Ill flame]

Our fanbase is lacking in every sport. It's probably better in baseball than any other sport. I think our marketing strategy needs tweaking, but I don't know solution.
I live about 40 miles from LU, and there's no marketing in my area. I am sure it's hurting in all directions from Lynchburg. We need to bring in casual fans, not just alumni.

I agree our fanbase needs to improve across the board. Marketing could always be better but long term success is the biggest thing that brings the fans. Its not a coincidence baseball does pretty solid with attendance considering how much they historically win compared to other programs.

[cruzan_flame13]

Our fanbase is lacking in every sport. It's probably better in baseball than any other sport. I think our marketing strategy needs tweaking, but I don't know solution.
I live about 40 miles from LU, and there's no marketing in my area. I am sure it's hurting in all directions from Lynchburg. We need to bring in casual fans, not just alumni.

I agree our fanbase needs to improve across the board. Marketing could always be better but long term success is the biggest thing that brings the fans. Its not a coincidence baseball does pretty solid with attendance considering how much they historically win compared to other programs.

Expanding the residential population would help with that. We have around 100k students but most is online(as well all know). They're more student graduates which are remaining in the area these days which may help out. It would be beneficial to expand academia in order to revive more residential student's( build more residential opportunities). With more students plus marketing deals, they could be more students attending games. If we keep winning throughout our sports, attendance will continue to grow especially going into post season play. Lynchburg continues to grow with new residents from other states. We have to give them something that they can enjoy locally; I hope that is the vision McCaw has got the next few years.

[tyndal23]

No it won’t. If you always get beat by someone, your perception is an easy win over a nothing program.

Losing to P5 teams does nothing except enhance the checkbook.

Beating P5 teams is the only way our perception changes.

Agree in regards to football specifically - but I was more so talking all sports, the entire athletic department, the entire university as a whole. Not to pick on ECU...but to back to them:

1. Because they play football in the AAC they’re seen as a “better” school

BUT...

1. We have a better overall athletics department
2. Better facilities
3. Better budgets
4. We would rather be here than there

But no one knows this. Marketing!

Please be specific and name any P5 who we have better facilities and a bigger budget than in Football which on average is 85% of revenue. You can start with the worst teams in the ACC. 5-8 years ago you might have been correct on the facilities aspect but every single P5 has had major upgrades to all aspects of their football operations. There are some “old” stadiums out there that aren’t too sexy - Rutgers, WSU, Oregon State, Wake but all bigger.

[tyndal23]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball ... _rank.html

Here is 2019 football budget breakdown for all P5. Anyone know LU actual football budget?

[Logic]

No it won’t. If you always get beat by someone, your perception is an easy win over a nothing program.

Losing to P5 teams does nothing except enhance the checkbook.

Beating P5 teams is the only way our perception changes.

Agree in regards to football specifically - but I was more so talking all sports, the entire athletic department, the entire university as a whole. Not to pick on ECU...but to back to them:

1. Because they play football in the AAC they’re seen as a “better” school

BUT...

1. We have a better overall athletics department
2. Better facilities
3. Better budgets
4. We would rather be here than there

But no one knows this. Marketing!

Please be specific and name any P5 who we have better facilities and a bigger budget than in Football which on average is 85% of revenue. You can start with the worst teams in the ACC. 5-8 years ago you might have been correct on the facilities aspect but every single P5 has had major upgrades to all aspects of their football operations. There are some “old” stadiums out there that aren’t too sexy - Rutgers, WSU, Oregon State, Wake but all bigger.

Again not speaking directly to football. More so the entire package. Take our Olympic sports into account and we have better facilities across the board than many, many P5 programs. Baseball, Softball, Tennis coming online, Track & Field, Swimming & Diving, etc...All of those sports have nicer facilities than the majority of their P5 counterparts. Yet no one knows this because they still consider Liberty a small bible college. We have a top-3 indoor track in the country - how many people know this? I don’t see that as necessarily their fault - we need to tell them, somehow.

Take out football and Liberty > ECU in every possible way in regards to facilities and budgets for all other sports.

[cruzan_flame13]

Agree in regards to football specifically - but I was more so talking all sports, the entire athletic department, the entire university as a whole. Not to pick on ECU...but to back to them:

1. Because they play football in the AAC they’re seen as a “better” school

BUT...

1. We have a better overall athletics department
2. Better facilities
3. Better budgets
4. We would rather be here than there

But no one knows this. Marketing!

Please be specific and name any P5 who we have better facilities and a bigger budget than in Football which on average is 85% of revenue. You can start with the worst teams in the ACC. 5-8 years ago you might have been correct on the facilities aspect but every single P5 has had major upgrades to all aspects of their football operations. There are some “old” stadiums out there that aren’t too sexy - Rutgers, WSU, Oregon State, Wake but all bigger.

Again not speaking directly to football. More so the entire package. Take our Olympic sports into account and we have better facilities across the board than many, many P5 programs. Baseball, Softball, Tennis coming online, Track & Field, Swimming & Diving, etc...All of those sports have nicer facilities than the majority of their P5 counterparts. Yet no one knows this because they still consider Liberty a small bible college. We have a top-3 indoor track in the country - how many people know this? I don’t see that as necessarily their fault - we need to tell them, somehow.

Take out football and Liberty > ECU in every possible way in regards to facilities and budgets for all other sports.

Look at my statement above. We are known for the growth of our online programs. We need to grow our residential campus and promote that as well (sports is a great way to expose the idea on a national scale).

[Logic]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball ... _rank.html

Here is 2019 football budget breakdown for all P5. Anyone know LU actual football budget?

According to the latest Department of Education data we spend 16 million a year on football, but that was pre Hugh Freeze. You can find all the numbers, and for all of our sports, here: https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/details

[Ill flame]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball ... _rank.html

Here is 2019 football budget breakdown for all P5. Anyone know LU actual football budget?

Those numbers don't seem to match up. According to this source.[https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/]

Kansas for example is spending $104 million total on athletics but only around $14 million on football. Where is $90 million going? I understand the 20 something sports that don't make money cost a million of 2 a year but that still seems off to me.

Apparently our total athletic budget was $45 million five years ago according to this article.

[https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/ ... e2474.html]

[Logic]

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball ... _rank.html

Here is 2019 football budget breakdown for all P5. Anyone know LU actual football budget?

Those numbers don't seem to match up. According to this source.[https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/]

Kansas for example is spending $104 million total on athletics but only around $14 million on football. Where is $90 million going? I understand the 20 something sports that don't make money cost a million of 2 a year but that still seems off to me.

Apparently our total athletic budget was $45 million five years ago according to this article.

[https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/ ... e2474.html]

Different websites will compute different metrics. Need to find an apples to apples comparison. The DOE requires all schools to compute the data the same way to get an accurate picture. So compare DOE data between schools to find the apples to apples comparison.

[tyndal23]

Please be specific and name any P5 who we have better facilities and a bigger budget than in Football which on average is 85% of revenue. You can start with the worst teams in the ACC. 5-8 years ago you might have been correct on the facilities aspect but every single P5 has had major upgrades to all aspects of their football operations. There are some “old” stadiums out there that aren’t too sexy - Rutgers, WSU, Oregon State, Wake but all bigger.

Again not speaking directly to football. More so the entire package. Take our Olympic sports into account and we have better facilities across the board than many, many P5 programs. Baseball, Softball, Tennis coming online, Track & Field, Swimming & Diving, etc...All of those sports have nicer facilities than the majority of their P5 counterparts. Yet no one knows this because they still consider Liberty a small bible college. We have a top-3 indoor track in the country - how many people know this? I don’t see that as necessarily their fault - we need to tell them, somehow.

Take out football and Liberty > ECU in every possible way in regards to facilities and budgets for all other sports.

Look at my statement above. We are known for the growth of our online programs. We need to grow our residential campus and promote that as well (sports is a great way to expose the idea on a national scale).

ECU isn’t a P5. As for remaining sports - I agree our facilities are nicer than a few P5 and any athlete we recruit in each of those sports absolutely knows it ( the second they click on website )and every conference AD knows it who would be considering LU as a potential member. football - You are correct from a national Casual fan view - but I argue that nationally - very few even know what conference App St plays in - G5 is almost as irrelevant as FCS. As for your post/reply Cruzan - JR stated 16k is the cap - but I haven’t seen ANY school promote their campus better than LU - every online potential student sees Top notch videos of our campus. For football, focusing a lot on expanding local turnout seems a bit of a wasted effort due to the attitude towards LU - u love em or hate em with not much middle ground. Focus on the national ( P5 level build) and worry about local last. ( complete opposite plan of what would make sense for 127 other FBS Football programs ).

[Purple Haize]

Athletic department breakdowns can sort of give you a compare/contrast. I would imagine LU is still working on a $45-50 million athletic department budget..

Alabama actually ran a deficit. Most of their money came from media rights and tickets
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2020 ... osely.html

Here are ACC Football budgets
https://accsports.com/acc-news/how-much ... -football/

Big 12 Football expenses with Department breakdowns
https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/co ... 34596.html

Bonus - Big 12 FB recruiting budgets. https://www.reporternews.com/story/spor ... 054244001/

And here is a super fun tool showing where money comes from and where money goes. I have it set to the PAC 12 but you can break it down by Conference and by team. If you spit ball LU’s budget it would be interesting to see where else their money comes from

http://cafidatabase.knightcommission.or ... he_money-1

[Purple Haize]

Our fanbase is lacking in every sport. It's probably better in baseball than any other sport. I think our marketing strategy needs tweaking, but I don't know solution.
I live about 40 miles from LU, and there's no marketing in my area. I am sure it's hurting in all directions from Lynchburg. We need to bring in casual fans, not just alumni.

I agree our fanbase needs to improve across the board. Marketing could always be better but long term success is the biggest thing that brings the fans. Its not a coincidence baseball does pretty solid with attendance considering how much they historically win compared to other programs.

If the people who SHOULD care about LU athletics do not get excited about it, then why should a Conference?

[Jonathan Carone]

Take out football and Liberty > ECU in every possible way in regards to facilities and budgets for all other sports.

I can’t believe we’re still having this same conversation 10+ years later.

Facilities and budgets don’t create prestige or reputation. They don’t guarantee success. We made this argument in the Big South all the time and rarely ever won anything that matters.

We are dot com billionaires trying to rub elbows with the old money elite. They don’t trust us. They don’t like us. They don’t want us around.

[Purple Haize]

Take out football and Liberty > ECU in every possible way in regards to facilities and budgets for all other sports.

I can’t believe we’re still having this same conversation 10+ years later.

Facilities and budgets don’t create prestige or reputation. They don’t guarantee success. We made this argument in the Big South all the time and rarely ever won anything that matters.

We are dot com billionaires trying to rub elbows with the old money elite. They don’t trust us. They don’t like us. They don’t want us around.

But if LU SAYS they are P5 so will everyone else. Cause....reasons and Jerry said so

[thepostman]

P5 equivalent. Get it right!

[Purple Haize]

P5 equivalent. Get it right!

Why not go all out? P5+?

[Jonathan Carone]

We are pogues who want to be kooks.

[jinxy]

This has become the ncaa realignment mega thread.

Its been said dozens of times but the schedule is what it is for several reasons.

1st - its manageable so that we can grow the program and win games and string years of bowl appearances together.
2nd- its what we can get with big names. Unless we just want to play all road games.
3 - some teams viewed it as an easy d1 win
4- $$

Prestige and fan wise

We spent a decade talking the talk but doing very little walking the walk. In the last 3 years weve done a lot more walking the walk. Keep walking the walk


I think the schedules are excellent for where we are and will continue to think that. It would be dangerous to load up 2023 and 2024 and assume we are “p5 ready”. If you told me hchf was still here i would be more comfortable with us loading up because i think he will build as fast as can possibly be done. But if he leaves were still not at a a sturdy place roster wise and your not guaranteed to hit a Hr with your next hire.

Im all for dreaming big but man we couldnt even win the big south outright under gill . Were only 2 years removed from that.

[Ill flame]

This has become the ncaa realignment mega thread.

Its been said dozens of times but the schedule is what it is for several reasons.

1st - its manageable so that we can grow the program and win games and string years of bowl appearances together.
2nd- its what we can get with big names. Unless we just want to play all road games.
3 - some teams viewed it as an easy d1 win
4- $$

Prestige and fan wise

We spent a decade talking the talk but doing very little walking the walk. In the last 3 years weve done a lot more walking the walk. Keep walking the walk


I think the schedules are excellent for where we are and will continue to think that. It would be dangerous to load up 2023 and 2024 and assume we are “p5 ready”. If you told me hchf was still here i would be more comfortable with us loading up because i think he will build as fast as can possibly be done. But if he leaves were still not at a a sturdy place roster wise and your not guaranteed to hit a Hr with your next hire.

Im all for dreaming big but man we couldnt even win the big south outright under gill . Were only 2 years removed from that.

Any football related thread that goes long enough eventually comes back to this topic.

[thepostman]

Yeah, plus there is literally nothing to talk about in the sports world and I am sick of covid talk so let's keep this going on as long as possible haha.

[Ill flame]

Yeah, plus there is literally nothing to talk about in the sports world and I am sick of covid talk so let's keep this going on as long as possible haha.

I guess we can make that happen...
What schedule would you guys rather see in the future
Schedule A
Bowling Green
@ Coastal Carolina
@ Buffalo
Eastern Michigan
Old Dominion
@ Miami (OH)
@ Virginia
E Tennessee st
@ South Carolina
UConn
UMass
@ Nmsu
Schedule B
@ Virginia
E Tenn st
coastal Carolina
@ Middle Tennessee
@Florida Atlantic
Old Dominion
@ Southern Miss
FIU
@ south Carolina
Marshall
@ Charlotte
Western Kentucky

[Jonathan Carone]

B. Easily.

[Cider Jim]

We are dot com billionaires trying to rub elbows with the old money elite. They don’t trust us. They don’t like us. They don’t want us around.

Marshall had had to deal with this, too. We've been FBS for 23 YEARS and earned a dozen bowl WINS (over schools like Louisville, BYU, Maryland, & Cincy), and one joker on the board still refers to the Herd as a "junior college."