[prototype]

Realist - I can speak for myself and most people on this board. We are not getting on you personally. We are just standing up for our respective schools. It is unheard of to say that a team could come from where we did last year to win the BS, but we did the same thing in 2004. Talent is the main issue - Last year you had much more talent than us. We had Blair. This year we have more talent on the floor plain and simple. I like Martin a lot - wish he was on our team. I'm personally not sold on Bradshaw. He's a good post player, but in my opinion overrated. I think this year will depend on home court for the tournament. Whoever can secure home court for the tournament between Winthrop, LU and Coastal will probably win. But I think you will be surprised - Brewington is not much as a head case as you have heard. He has had over a year to play with Blair and Company on campus and some young guys will be instant contributors. I would have told you that last year we weren't very deep and had some major issues, but this year I think we should be deep and be tremendously more athletic, which will help us match up against your team.

OK - I'm done with this thread. It's been fun and I love talking basketball, but now I will turn my time back over to Football. What heated posting can I start for the Towson Thread?????

Thanks for your time WEF and Realist. See you this winter.

[TIMSCAR20]

Yes I can vouch for Realist. He is a stand-up guy and I consider him a friend of Liberty even if he is a part of the evil empire/dynasty (sarcasm boys, sarcasm). Still haven't read all the posts but I appreciate Proto's enthusiasm and love for our school. He is a passionate guy with a lot of brain power packed in that little body IMO Liberty is going places that most Big South schools will never dream of going. The way this school is growing and the vision, passion and financial backing, Liberty is going to be a major player in sports and academics in our lifetimes.

[A.G.]

The way this school is growing and the vision, passion and financial backing, Liberty is going to be a major player in sports and academics in our lifetimes.

[prototype]

Thanks Scar!! I think:)

[TIMSCAR20]

The way this school is growing and the vision, passion and financial backing, Liberty is going to be a major player in sports and academics in our lifetimes.

AG I always love the kool aide reference even if you are killing me. That picture ranks up there with Luconn's Flicker character! However I stand by that statement. I would not have said that myself 10 years ago but now I think it will happen.

[jcmanson]

Scar, you know what? I've been thinking this ever since I arrived on campus in August of 2002. This university has so much to offer, and the administration is so committed to seeing us become a legitimate player in all avenues.

[fsn32]

It's funny how quickly things change... I wouldn't throw words like "never will be" around too much. Marshall has built the dynasty but if he were to leave...who knows. I can remember that not even ten years ago there was a guy named Dan Kenney in Rock Hill... Winthrop was THE laughing stock of Big South basketball.

Before Gregg Marshall WU was an absolute joke. They were under Dan Kenny and were the worst team in the conference. Everyone acts like they have 100 years of great basketball history when reality is they have 8.

As for B-ball, Scar is correct, WU was a joke before Marshall came, believe me I saw a year of it.

Dang it... Scar I made the same point 8 hours before you did but you got the credit... how do you do that... I need the name of your publicist.

[prototype]

Some more logs on this fire...

Liberty Men's Cross Country Ranked Fifth in Initial USTFCCCA Regional Poll, Receives Votes in National Poll

Jordan McDougal (L) and Jarvis Jelen
Jordan McDougal (L) and Jarvis Jelen
September 13, 2006
Lynchburg, Va.

The Liberty University men’s cross country team is ranked fifth in the Southeast Region and has been included in the “also receiving votes” category in the initial installment of the United States Track & Field and Cross Country Coaches Association (USTFCCCA) national Division I poll.

The Flames, coming off a team title at Saturday’s Lou Onesty Invitational, actually defeated the top two teams in the regional poll, William & Mary and Virginia, at that event. The first and second finishers at the Nov. 11 NCAA Division I Southeast Regional meet will earn automatic qualification to the NCAA Division I National Championship meet, to be contested Nov. 20. Liberty finished ninth at the regional meet a season ago.

N.C. State and Duke were the other two squads ranked ahead of Liberty in this week’s regional poll, taking third and fourth place, respectively. The Wolfpack were additionally one of the 10 teams included along with Liberty in the “also receiving votes” section of the national poll.

Defending national champion Wisconsin sits atop the national rankings to start the 2006 season. The Badgers are slated to run at the Roy Griak Invitational on Sept. 23, which is Liberty’s next meet.

William & Mary (25th) and Virginia (26th) were the Southeast Region teams included in the national top 30 listing.

USTFCCCA Preseason Division I Men’s Cross Country Poll
Southeast Region
1) William & Mary
2) Virginia
3) N.C. State
4) Duke
5) Liberty
6) Louisville
7) Norfolk State
Wake Forest
9) Eastern Kentucky
10) James Madison
11) Virginia Tech
12) Coastal Carolina
13) North Carolina
14) Clemson
15) Charlotte

[Realist]

The problem with that statement is that you are saying we could revert back. Doubtful, considering Winthrop is now a great job to have and we have the money to pay for a good coach. I don't think Marshall is leaving anytime soon, but with the tradition he has established, and the good job he has created, the foundation is there. No question that WU was awful before Marshall, but he's created more than just a mid-major power, he's created the foundation for future success if/when he leaves.

Should I post WU's top ranking in volleyball now that we are going to olympic sports?

[prototype]

Here - I'll save you some time -
#AVCA Division I Women's Top 25 Poll#
-------------------------------------
AVCA Division I Women's Top 25 Poll
(Records through September 11, 2006)
TEAM PTS PVS
---- --- ---
1. NEBRASKA (47) (7-0) 1,486 1
2. PENN ST (12) (8-0) 1,423 2
3. UCLA (1) (9-0) 1,358 3
4. WASHINGTON (8-1) 1,235 5
5. TEXAS (5-2) 1,196 7
6. FLORIDA (6-1) 1,184 6
7. STANFORD (6-1) 1,101 8
8. SANTA CLARA (6-1) 1,100 4
9. USC (9-0) 1,032 10
10. CALIFORNIA (9-0) 870 13
11. WISCONSIN (6-1) 867 11
12. HAWAII (5-3) 836 9
13. TENNESSEE (8-1) 778 12
14. PURDUE (9-0) 761 14
15. OHIO ST (8-0) 524 19
16. OHIO (6-2) 523 17
17. MISSOURI (6-3) 484 15
18. LSU (8-1) 424 22
19. BYU (7-1) 413 16
20. PEPPERDINE (4-4) 339 18
21. UTAH (6-2) 265 24
22. MICHIGAN (10-0) 239 NR
23. CAL POLY (6-3) 162 25
24. (tie) KANSAS ST (8-2) 98 NR
24. (tie) ARIZONA (7-2) 98 21
Dropped Out: No. 20 LOUISVILLE, No. 23 NOTRE DAME
Others Receiving Votes: LONG BEACH ST 89, LOUISVILLE 84, NEW
MEXICO ST 81, TEXAS AM 73, DAYTON 28, SAN FRANCISCO 24, SAN
DIEGO 19, MINNESOTA 16, DUKE 13, NOTRE DAME 10, ARKANSAS 8,
KANSAS 5, NORTHERN IOWA 5, MARYLAND 4, RICE 4.
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.Winthrop

[LUconn]

The problem with that statement is that you are saying we could revert back. Doubtful, considering Winthrop is now a great job to have and we have the money to pay for a good coach. I don't think Marshall is leaving anytime soon, but with the tradition he has established, and the good job he has created, the foundation is there. No question that WU was awful before Marshall, but he's created more than just a mid-major power, he's created the foundation for future success if/when he leaves.

Should I post WU's top ranking in volleyball now that we are going to olympic sports?

I'll be interested to see if it doesn't revert. It should be fun to watch his players play for the man who decided to leave them high and dry only to come crying back because he realized C of C was not what it once was. It should also be fun to watch him ask for recruit's commitments when they know he is not committed to them. They saw his name in the hat for NCST. They know he's a wanted man. Nobody wants to be in a program in the middle of a coaching change. But who knows, maybe none of that will happen. It should be entertaining.

[prototype]

Nice Glasses! Winthrop Golfer - I haven't seen glasses like that since going to the mall last weekend.

[Rocketfan]

You right he isn't leaving anytime soon, because no respectable college in this great nation would stick there neck out for him after the stunt he pulled this off-season. Sadly no matter how much $$$ he makes unless he is buying players the only thing new kids will know about him will be.... " weren't you the guy on sportscenter who couldn't make up his mind" - " are you sure you want me on your team, really are you sure" , " so when i talk to you tomorrow is my full ride still going to be on the table or will you cry and say you dont' know what you were thinking, but you decided to give it back to a player you already promised it to"

What he built is a large ? in everyone's mind.

[Realist]

Are you looking at the southeast poll like you posted for the cross country? Big difference between a southeast poll and a national poll.

I'll leave it at this. Once you have accomplished something, then talk. As it stands, Winthrop is one of the premier mid-majors in the country, and it's not debateable. #4 in the mid major poll last year. Marshall has built a power, and one that will remain over the course of time.

[BJWilliams]

I gladly kept myself out of this discussion (except for a minor correction of Mr. Realist "pristine" command of the English language a couple pages ago) but I think I should go ahead and weigh in somewhat.


I arrived on Liberty Mountain 4 years ago having never really heard of the Big South or any of its school (except Liberty thanks to their appearance in the 1994 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament). Having followed all this for the last 4 years I have seen the peaks and valleys that come with it. From LU winning the Big South in front of a national audience on ESPN to watching Winthrop nearly bust everybody's bracket's this past March. Winthrop has a VERY good athletic program (as their results in baseball, men's basketball, and volleyball can attest). Liberty also has its areas where they dominate (women's basketball, cross country and indoor and outdoor track although CCU has shown to be our match indoors and outdoors the last couple years). Everyone has a particular area where they dominate for a stretch of time. Winthrop dominates in some sports, and Liberty in others, and the coaches in those sports have done magnificent work (whether its Gregg Marshall for WU or Randy Dunton for LU in men's basketball, Carey Green for LU in women's basketball, Joe Hudak at WU or Matt Royer @ LU for baseball, Joel McCartney @ WU for volleyball, or Brant Tolsma @ LU for indoor and outdoor track AND XC). Give credit where credit is due for both schools.

Yes Winthrop won 6 out 8 titles in men's basketball, yes LU won 10 straight titles for women's basketball (9 straight #1 seedings in the tournament), we could go on and on and on, but at the end of the day we are all still fans. So how about we just give all this bickering a rest and honor the accomplishments of this conference.

[LUconn]

As it stands, Winthrop is one of the premier mid-majors in the country, and it's not debateable.

I hate this sportstalk junk. Just because you say something in a definative manner, doesn't make it true. Mid-major doesn't even have a freaking definition and yet you're telling me it's not debateable? I think it's obvious we tend to underplay what WU has done but you act like they're the next coming of Gonzaga.

[Realist]

I certainly agree. If bickering is done, it should be between LU, CCU, WU---and the rest of the conference, who haven't done much to help us. If you'll note, I've never said anything disparaging about LU's women's program or cross country or those olympic sports (I don't pay much attention to that in the first place, and that means WU itself as well). However, when we've accomplished so much in men's basketball, I'm going to defend the program when ignorant comments are made about it. LU has been tremendous in women's basketball, just as Winthrop has in men's.

[fsn32]

Sassar Cups would help your argument.

[Realist]

Sasser Cups only reward schools that offer more sports. Title 9 prevents us from offering football, and the Cup also rewards indoor and outdoor track which is the same sport. Even then, WU I believe won the men's sports title, though I could be wrong.

Winning a recognized championship sport would help LU's arguement. Not piddly little things like women's basketball and cross country.

[fsn32]

So in that same argument... Stanford shouldn't be proud of winning the Sears Director's Cup?

BTW... I'm guessing the baseball and Men's Basketball are the only two recognizable sports?

[thepostman]

this guy is still going?? when will he stop...he has his opinions and we have ours....he isn't going to change his stance on anything even if he sounds slightly unintelligent doing it.....but whatever...WU is a better men's basketball school and baseball school then LU........for now...we all agree on that....I just wish realist would stop sounding like a jerk....I love when people say all these negative things and then say that they support LU sports or whatever....I mean to be honest i could care less what WU or any other Big South school does....i watched the WU game this past year against tenn. and thought it would be cool if they won so it would make Liberty's crap conference look slightly better...but when they lost i felt no pain or whatever....

I don't support WU or any other Big South school for that matter....because if i said something like that i would be lying....

[jimflamesfan]

I cheer for Winthrop when they go to the Big Dance. Just think how much publicity the conference would've gotten had Winthrop beat Gonzaga two years ago, and went to the men's sweet 16, when LU went to the women's.

I support the schools that are in our conference. There may be a bias against LU..but like Scar pointed out way earlier, Wintrop asked for no Wed night games in basketball, and they ended up with 3. So the Big South also doesn't respect it's best men's basketball school.

We asked to play Radford when students are here...the Big South says no. I still cheer for the Big South teams...I just don't understand why the conference would not want to do what was best for all of the schools...these weren't huge requests from WU and LU. I think we can agree on that.

[thepostman]

i understand your point and agree to a certain extent...i do have more interest in a game if it includes a big south member...if they win it makes the conference look better and therefore makes Liberty look better which is really all i care about anyways to be honest....the big south is a terribly run conference and doesn't really deserve to look good...

like you said about these requests the schools made and were rejected...how can schools even WANT to be in this conference....

[A.G.]

Realist--WU, too, has a Sasser Cup sport that LU does not participate in--W-Golf. Thus, your argument about the even sports sponsored is a moot point, at least comparing WU with LU.

[Realist]

That is true, however, WU still finished ahead of LU in the standings despite Track and Field being counted twice. Honestly, that doesn't even matter, the sasser cup has so many things wrong with it that it's not a measure of anything. I would assume most would agree on here since most think that the conference has never been competent at doing anything.