[SuperJon]

Has a mind set been created now, that they are better then being in the Big South and deserve to be FBS, so they look at the Big South as being beneath them?

That's been there a little since Rocco was here. It's only bigger now that we've put out #FBSready. It's part of the entitlement culture I've talked about and been told I was wrong over and over.

[Purple Haize]

How are 3 missed field goals on the coaches?

Not adjusting to a field goal kicker who was 7/12 coming into the game.

How are dropped passes on the coaches?

It's been a problem for three years. At some point, the guys getting paid a bunch of money are responsible when their players continue to make the same mistakes.

A kick returner who prefers to fall down as opposed to run could be on the coaching staff.

Again, it's been going on for three years. Parker has has one great return and 2.5 years of bad decisions.

At what point do trends that happen every single week begin to get blamed on the people leading the program?

That is absolutely ridiculous.
If they were putting Lunsford in a position to make kicks he was incapable of then that's a coaching issue. If you can crank 60 yard FG's you can hit the chip shots.

The players are dropping the balls Do you suggest we don't pass it to them?
I'm with you on the return game.

Every issue I have seen is an issue of concentration. That's on the players. The coaches can't concentrate for them. Coaches can only put the players in positions to win games. Based on the fact that WR's are dropping passes when they are open and kickers are missing easy FG's it sounds to me that the coaches are doing their job. The coaches have put the players positions to succeed. The players haven't responded.

As a coach of mine once said " I can design the worlds best offense, but if you can't make a lay up, it doesn't matter'.

[SuperJon]

As a coach of mine once said " I can design the worlds best offense, but if you can't make a lay up, it doesn't matter'.

And if you continue recruiting guys who can't make layups, you won't have a job.

[flameshaw]

I heard the interview too and Josh will probably get in trouble for it but I think he's been much better the last 2 weeks. The overlooking opponents has been around since rocco. Honestly it has to be an athletic department and entitlement issue because of all the nice gear and facilities. We think we just have to show up and these scrubs like gardner Webb and presby will roll over. The mind boggling part is how many times do we have to get bit before we change.

Overlooking opponents has been around waaaay before Rocco. I don't see how anyone can say it is a athletic department or entitlement issue with any veracity at all. LU has had this problem when we didn't have any facilities or nice gear. We have the same problem USC has always had, plays down to opponents way too often. Has nothing to do with facilities or entitlement. It is preparation and the will to want it more than the next guy............. killer instinct.

[Purple Haize]

Josh said postgame they underestimated GWU.

Josh said after SIU they were "nonchalant" during practice during the week.

This isn't me just making up stuff. They don't take every game seriously.

Who is 'they'? I mean golly gee Josh, you are the Senior Captain, what are YOU doing to up the intensity?
Coaches can only yell and scream so much.

It's both. At this point you're just questioning things to be a detractor and try to be smarter than everyone. I know you coached a thousand years ago so you want to stand up for coaches, but at the end of the day, the coaches are responsible for everything whether the players executed or not.

I told you where I think the coaches erred. But the vast majority of this is squarely on the players.
And how many years ago did you coach? Or play?

[bluejacket]

We are going to need to be huge fans of whoever plays GWU the rest of the season (and CSU and CCU for that matter)

Explain this rationale.

[jinxy]

Haize, how can you defend our special teams play under Gill. It's a D at best. Think of all the gaffe's. We're 50 percent on field goals and we continue to play call for 3 points instead of 7 when he can't be trusted to make a kick. We've had 2 kicks blocked and 2 punts blocked. Parker literally can't stand up on punt returns. He's atrocious and 1td doesn't offset all the screwup' . It's really bad man.

[jinxy]

Flameshaw, genuinely asking how it's pre rocco when we had garbage facilities and nobody cares. I don't remember seeing it in 2003 2007 when I was there. Nobody cared. Nobody had any expectations then it seemed.

[Purple Haize]

As a coach of mine once said " I can design the worlds best offense, but if you can't make a lay up, it doesn't matter'.

And if you continue recruiting guys who can't make layups, you won't have a job.

Or, and this is where we agree about the return game, you won't be playing.
The problem is you don't know if "Legatron" or "Shawshank Redemption " is going to show up.
You don't know if 'All American' WR or Featherstone is going to show up
So these players have proven, when they focus they can execute. That tells me it's more on the players than coaches.

[flameshaw]

It's both. At this point you're just questioning things to be a detractor and try to be smarter than everyone. I know you coached a thousand years ago so you want to stand up for coaches, but at the end of the day, the coaches are responsible for everything whether the players executed or not.

I told you where I think the coaches erred. But the vast majority of this is squarely on the players.
And how many years ago did you coach? Or play?

Agree. The coaches didn't have a great game, but the players pretty well sucked across the board when it came time to execute. You can't have a legitimate All-American WR drop a pass that was right in his hands for the game-tying TD.

[Purple Haize]

Haize, how can you defend our special teams play under Gill. It's a D at best. Think of all the gaffe's. We're 50 percent on field goals and we continue to play call for 3 points instead of 7 when he can't be trusted to make a kick. We've had 2 kicks blocked and 2 punts blocked. Parker literally can't stand up on punt returns. He's atrocious and 1td doesn't offset all the screwup' . It's really bad man.

I'm not defending it. I have stated over and over again that Humpty Dumpty should NOT be returning kicks.
I'm fairly certain I could get a punt off faster than our guy
And Lunsford.......I dunno. At this point it's Big Risk/Big Reward for him. Heck, I'd be tempted to go 4 downs inside the 30 from now on and just save him for long FG's

[SuperJon]

flameshaw is under the impression we have a culture problem of no killer instinct. It's a pretty common belief and, while not politically correct or spoken of often, it has roots in the fact that we're a Christian school. His camp believes our teams are negatively impacted because most Christians don't have the killer instinct that most secular teams would have.

I don't discount that way of thinking at all. I think there's a lot of legitimacy to it. I take it one step further and add the entitlement of facilities, gear, being told you're great all the time, and being told you're better than the conference you're in.

[Flamesfanva]

Well 2017 should be better as the new Academic and Performance center will be open

[jmmiii]

RENT IS DUE ON SUCCESS EVERY DAY.

Gardner Webb! Team needs a history lesson. We are the Super Bowl game for every team in the Big South. Prepare accordingly.

[SuperJon]

So these players have proven, when they focus they can execute. That tells me it's more on the players than coaches.

This is where our fundamental disagreement is.

The coaches get all the credit in the world when we play well and the players execute. They coached them up well, had a great game plan, and motivated them to win.

When we lose, it's because they players didn't execute, weren't focused, and didn't take the opponent seriously.

If the coaches are going to get credit when we win, and if they're going to get paid what they get paid, they have to be responsible for the players not performing. It's the nature of coaching. It's not fair, but it's the way it works.

[SuperJon]

Also - for what it's worth - JB didn't post a "win or lose" picture.

[jinxy]

That may have been true back in the day but I don't buy the lack of killer instinct with these players. I think Jon hit it on the head. I really like JB and I think he's been great for us and he's been an absolute stand up guy but I think he will have to be the one to make the change. It's a tough job being that guy because there are people that don't like it but we're at a crossroads and I think he has to be the guy that delivera that message that hey you have to show up and these other teams have a chip on their shoulder. They take great pleasure in getting a shot on the rich cousin up the road who thinks he's better than us. I don't know how or what you say but we're stuck and it stinks. We know we have more talent than this

[SoD BAS]

RENT IS DUE ON SUCCESS EVERY DAY.

Gardner Webb! Team needs a history lesson. We are the Super Bowl game for every team in the Big South. Prepare accordingly.

True or not, this is the entitlement thing we're all talking about. Let's stop thinking we're better than the rest of the league and let's treat every game like Coastal, Montana, JMU, an FBS, etc....

[BJWilliams]

We are going to need to be huge fans of whoever plays GWU the rest of the season (and CSU and CCU for that matter)

Explain this rationale.

The way I see it, if we win out, the ONLY way that we win the Big South outright is if the three teams mentioned lose twice each. That means we ought to be rooting for whoever plays GWU down the road and we need to take care of our business.

Now CCU and CSU play each other so if we beat both of them (which I still think we can do, even with the result today), the loser of that game will have 2 losses and we have the head to head over the other. But as I said, the only way we win outright is if they all lose twice.

[Wvflame2013]

Also - for what it's worth - JB didn't post a "win or lose" picture.

I typed out a reply but decided to hold my tongue for good measure.

[Purple Haize]

So these players have proven, when they focus they can execute. That tells me it's more on the players than coaches.

This is where our fundamental disagreement is.

The coaches get all the credit in the world when we play well and the players execute. They coached them up well, had a great game plan, and motivated them to win.

When we lose, it's because they players didn't execute, weren't focused, and didn't take the opponent seriously.

If the coaches are going to get credit when we win, and if they're going to get paid what they get paid, they have to be responsible for the players not performing. It's the nature of coaching. It's not fair, but it's the way it works.

Go back and read my posts from past games. I don't do that. I believe in the GASt thread I said it's amazing how much better the team looks when they execute. I don't think the coaches did anything more or less last week than this, but the players certainly did. The only criticism I'd have is the D the 1st half. It looked like they were not expecting a dual threat QB. I don't follow GW football so I don't know, but the announcers made it seem like this was something new that GW was trying. If it was, than kudos to the staff for making the half time adjustment. If not, than that's a hardy WTF. But at least they did change
I like this staff because every week, they seem to put the players in a position to win That has not been the case with every staff in every sport.

[flameshaw]

Flameshaw, genuinely asking how it's pretty rocco when we had garbage facilities and nobody cares. I don't remember seeing it in 2003 2007 when I was there. Nobody cared. Nobody had any expectations then it seemed.

I am not going to avoid your question, but I am not going to go into great detail right now either. It is too late and I am too mad.
I will give you just one or two examples, but there are many, many that I could give.
We were playing Hampton at home, in the 90's some time. All we had for facilities was what is now the visitors locker room. The Visitors room was in a hut in the far end of the stadium. Our coach Sam R had to raise money to help pay for some of the equipment we did have. We scored a TD late in the game and all we needed was to make an extra point to make it to the playoffs for the first time. We missed the first time, but there was a penalty on Hampton, so we get another chance. We miss the next attempt. I am not sure the kicker had missed an extra point the whole year.
We had some very good teams when Sam was here, but never got it done, we lost games like the one I described above, that we took for granted, thought we had it won (Deleware St) came back on us after we were up by 28+ in the second half. VMI beat us before the Rocco area, the first game we played them by recovering 3 straight pooch kickoffs.
The expectations didn't used to be high for football back in the day. We had missed the playoffs a couple of years with wtf games. Then Karcher was a complete disaster and the interest waned even more. Believe it or not, in the 80's and 90's we were a basketball school. We had bigger crowds for the BB games than we did for football.
Entitlement has nothing to do with the fact that we play down to our opponents and have wtf games, we have a great loooong history of doing so, with and without facilities.

[SumItUp]

That was a ugly game, but don't jump off the ledge.

Another loss does not eliminate us from an at-large either. With 24 teams, there will be a spot for a team with 7 D1 wins.

[Purple Haize]

That was a ugly game, but don't jump off the ledge.

Another loss does not eliminate us from an at-large either. With 24 teams, there will be a spot for a team with 7 D1 wins.

I currently have $74 in my wallet. I will bet you that amount we won't get an at large if we lose another game

[SuperJon]

That may have been true back in the day but I don't buy the lack of killer instinct with these players. I think Jon hit it on the head. I really like JB and I think he's been great for us and he's been an absolute stand up guy but I think he will have to be the one to make the change. It's a tough job being that guy because there are people that don't like it but we're at a crossroads and I think he has to be the guy that delivera that message that hey you have to show up and these other teams have a chip on their shoulder. They take great pleasure in getting a shot on the rich cousin up the road who thinks he's better than us. I don't know how or what you say but we're stuck and it stinks. We know we have more talent than this

The problem is it goes higher up than Jeff. It's the entire culture of the university.

We are in a very unique spot. At almost every university in the country, the athletic department has to raise money for upgrades (uniforms, buildings, FCOA, etc).

At Liberty, we don't have to raise any money. The University builds us new buildings, gives us new uniforms, and provides the funding for FCOA.

Our future upgrades have nothing to do with how well we do on the field. Whether we win every game or lose every game, we're going to continue building new buildings and providing full cost of attendance.

Our athletic department is both a beneficiary and a victim of the success of the online school.