[Kricket]

The link is about how C-USA and MWC would form an alliance if they were raided by the Big East. This would probably mean no C-USA invite for LU I'm assuming.

http://mobile.orlandosentinel.com/p.p?m ... geNumber=1

[Purple Haize]

Okay I think we can confirm that Purple and Jbock are against moving up. No facts about why and how teams prepare for such a move will sway them.

We can also confirm that logic and many others here are all for a move to FBS. We will not be swayed by those who believe we aren't ready because we haven't been overwhelmingly successful at our current level.

Problem solved.

I am against moving up for the sake of 'moving up'. There really isn't a great deal of difference in preparing to move up and preparing to build an FCS powerhouse,IMO.
We are not going to get into the ACC Big Least or any other AQ conference in the foreseeable future.
Ihave stated in one of these endless threads that if a group of CAA teams made the jump and we went with them, that would be ideal.
I think this is a logical position.

[ToTheLeft]

But we're too good for the Big South! It holds us back! Kallander loves Coastal so much!

If it's entirely a money decision, then go for it, let's move up.

But if any of you think moving up is a competitive decision, you must be watching Delaware or Richmond or App St. Liberty is not on a competitive level in any of the "Big 3" sports to move up to any FBS conference. Women's basketball would be "ok" and of course T and F will do alright wherever they wind up. Other than that... I think we'd have to deal with even more losing than we deal with now, which I think you all would find, "we're in transition" only would help so much after losing season after losing season in every sport.

Imagine, if you will, we wind up in C-USA. Basketball would have to play MEMPHIS. We'd lose by 50 away and 30 at home.

In football, we'd have to play UH or UCF or SMU or So. Miss or Tulsa. I know everyone here also has an FBS team you support so you chuckle at those names, but we would play these teams in MEANINGFUL games, not guarantee games, and they'd prepare 110% to beat us. Imagine Case Keenum sitting down and watching tape of our defense! He'd throw for 700 yards!

Before everyone starts crying, YES, we WOULD get better, because once we get to that level, we'll begin attracting athletes of a higher calibre as well. An FBS Liberty has a chance to pull in even bigger talents, the Tebow or Colt McCoy types. But that wouldn't be an INSTANT thing, and also, it wouldn't be a WORLD CHANGING thing. We'd go through a very, very rough spot for a while where competing in our conference would be difficult to impossible. Eventually we'd get through it, but to say we're ready to move up for COMPETITIVE reasons is a bit of a stretch of the truth.

[logic]

Haize - for a smart guy you don't listen very well. I said we're well on our way, not there. If I'm on my way from point A to point B I'm not there yet but can see measurable progress, etc.

TTL - Understand that a move up to FBS helps all sports, not just football. The level of recruits is instantly better for all sports - just as no great high school football players want to play FCS, the big-time high school athletes in other sports dont want to play at a school without a nationally recognized FBS football program. The proof is in the pudding - check out the final directors cup standings from last year....49 of the top 50 schools are playing FBS football.

A move up would help all of Liberty athletics.

[ToTheLeft]

Haize - for a smart guy you don't listen very well. I said we're well on our way, not there. If I'm on my way from point A to point B I'm not there yet but can see measurable progress, etc.

TTL - Understand that a move up to FBS helps all sports, not just football. The level of recruits is instantly better for all sports - just as no great high school football players want to play FCS, the big-time high school athletes in other sports dont want to play at a school without a nationally recognized FBS football program. The proof is in the pudding - check out the final directors cup standings from last year....49 of the top 50 schools are playing FBS football.

A move up would help all of Liberty athletics.

I agree, and I even said that. However, to say we'd be moving up because we're READY to compete is false. We'd be moving up for MONEY and to raise the ceiling for the program. It would not spell immediate success. Quite the opposite, in fact. Long term, we would catch up and be getting the athletes we needed to. But it would take a while.

[Purple Haize]

The only numbers that matter with regards to moving up are not stats nor won loss records.

That is why we're more than ready to move up.

This is actually what you said. Which seems to contradict your last statement.

[logic]

Haize my friend...read!

Ready to move up, yes. Are we Notre Dame yet? We're on our way. Two totally different things.

But really, the Notre Dame / BYU cliche is outdated. Let's have Oklahoma's football program not
Notre Dame.

[BJWilliams]

You want to know why Dr Falwell often referenced Notre Dame and BYU logic? Because those schools cater to very specific groups (Notre Dame= Catholics, BYU= Mormons).

[Purple Haize]

Haize my friend...read!

Ready to move up, yes. Are we Notre Dame yet? We're on our way. Two totally different things.

But really, the Notre Dame / BYU cliche is outdated. Let's have Oklahoma's football program not
Notre Dame.

So now you are saying we are more then ready to move up but not quite there yet to compete with ND and BYU.
Or are you saying we are more then ready to move up but not quite there yet in competing with the level we move up too?
Or are you saying we are more then ready to move up and while we are not quite ready to compete at the next level, 5 star recruits will magically appear at our doorstep vaulting us not only in the ability to compete but dominate the BCS?
Of course, if ND keeps going the direction they are going, we might be able to compete with then a lot sooner then before!

[TH Spangler]

ODU's name keeps coming up as a D1-A contender. So your present stadium situation and program history doesn't matter to some people?

History 3 years.
http://www.odusports.com/sports/m-footb ... tresu.html

Stadium very old, built in 1941 and very small.

[logic]

Haize I do believe we need our own cage match thread


To answer your question, my response dealt with your response from my previous question, from an earlier topic. You with me?


1. We have the money and the student body size to move up, especially when we hit 20k.
2. We are on our way to more/better alumni support, academic success/prestige, and athletic success.

These two things can propel us to the national stage and help us achieve the aforementioned ND/BYU goal of national prominence.

Are we there yet? To ND status? Obviously not. Are we on our way? I believe so.

[ToTheLeft]

ODU's name keeps coming up as a D1-A contender. So your present stadium situation and program history doesn't matter to some people?

History 3 years.
http://www.odusports.com/sports/m-footb ... tresu.html

Stadium very old, built in 1941 and very small.

Why would history matter even one tiny bit? Why? This isn't a tradition contest! Otherwise, the Ivy league would be on CBS every Saturday!

ITS ABOUT MONEY. CASH. DINERO.

ODU is willing to front some cash to get where they want to go. They're a contender. (As are UTSA, South/North Alabama, Georgia State, and Lamar... all new programs with the cash to put themselves into the top level) Liberty has the cash, we're a contender. It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING else. We'd be a bad FBS football team, but we're more than capable of being one! We have the money.

One thing also to consider is... ODU is a part of the 757 TV Market. LU is the 434 TV Market. There is a drastic difference.

[ballah09]

my thoughts

.WKU-Power house FCS, now garbage in FBS
USF,UCF,UCONN, Boiser-accomplished nothing in FCS-now all were ranked one point in time

.Georgia State and ODU are believed to be actively pursuing FBS same with UNCC. Liberty accomplished more than them. same with South Alabama and UTSA. they did squat

-liberty has $/revenue, future 20,000 students, own tv network (FSN) so games would be on espn3 if it's not picked up on ESPN or CSTV. growing academics ranked in both US News and Forbes if you wanna throw academics in. (for recruits or conference exposer)

.Big schools visit Non BCS teams all the time. (money talks)
-UCLA at Rice
-USC at Hawaii
-Texas at Wyoming
-Indiana at Ball State
-Stanford at San Jose State
-Penn State at Temple
-NC State at USA (future schedule)

so when you say they don't accomplish anything coming to non bcs schools are they would never come to Liberty, they do/would. They collect a fat paycheck and a more than likely FBS win. Which is really important.

-as TTL said it's a money issue. Liberty has the money to build top facilities and bring in a BCS school to Williams.

-then i agree with not being competitive right away. It would take 2-4 years before Liberty would be competitive. They would have to weed out the FCS players.

again a team is as good as the school's commitment to the program (money)

and personally i don't think they ge invite/or move up until the Stadium is done and some facilities, imo

[TH Spangler]

ITS ABOUT MONEY. CASH. DINERO.

I agree with all your points ... can you believe it! I just wanted someone else to say it. It's all about commitment, money & potential. Potential facilities (all sports), potential butts in the seats (20,000 plus students) & potential TV market. We can control two out of three. The TV market is the big question mark ... Can the FSN be one quarter as successful as the Notre Dame Sports Network, if so we're good.

[LUconn]

1 flamefans.com myth that needs to be addressed is that Notre Dame is Notre Dame (following, sales, interest, etc.) because they're catholic. They are who they are because of past prestige. Let's stop trying to compare us to them until we have 50+ years of top 25 teams under our belt and one of the best sports movies of all time focused on how great LU is.

[logic]

Great post ballah

[bradyfan]

You have got to be kidding me. I'm not a person who operates on impulsiveness, however, when I see a "no brainer" decision, I make it. You're delusional if you honestly think Liberty moving to the FBS is a BAD thing or it won't work.

First, what is Liberty's purpose? Training Champions for Christ and as far as I'm concerned, Liberty seeks to reach as many people as possible. Even moving into the C-USA, MAC or even the Sun-Belt is a good move. Why? Here's what it does for LU. LU will be on video games, national t.v. at least once a year (and I don't mean ESPN3...), you can then host teams like Virginia Tech, West Virginia, NC State, Miami, Florida...etc. You're reaching so many more people, you're making a ton of money. Not to mention if you get 7 wins, you're in a bowl and have a chance to get a payout for winning. This is an absolute no brainer decision. Liberty has a huge school, the stadium is growing, LU is financially stable and is actually on the recruiting map for many high-profile football players.

Second, for those of you who don't want to make the move...you might as well curl up in your bed and cry because it's coming. Liberty wouldn't expand a stadium to 30,000 seats to stay in the FCS. Furthermore, they would have NEVER said there are also plans to expand that to 60,000 at some point. That statement was Liberty saying, we're tired of the Big South and we're on the move. Liberty will be a very attractive team for any conference. Great financial stability, huge school, great fan base...etc.

However, what is holding LU back right now and for good reason is...wins. I don't have any inside information or any of that. On the other hand, I can read people quite well and when Jerry said that we need to win the FCS, that was a message to Rocco. That was Jerry saying that Liberty is going to move up in the near future but we need to compete in the FCS, and if Rocco wants to continue to be a part of this movement, he needs to win. Liberty is going to make the move regardless of who is coaching. If Rocco doesn't get us to playoffs this year, I would highly question his future in Lynchburg.

[Purple Haize]

However, what is holding LU back right now and for good reason is...wins. I don't have any inside information or any of that. On the other hand, I can read people quite well and when Jerry said that we need to win the FCS, that was a message to Rocco. That was Jerry saying that Liberty is going to move up in the near future but we need to compete in the FCS, and if Rocco wants to continue to be a part of this movement, he needs to win. Liberty is going to make the move regardless of who is coaching. If Rocco doesn't get us to playoffs this year, I would highly question his future in Lynchburg.

The first part of your post had so many debatable issues I thought I'd focus on what most people agree on. I'm not sure there are too many people who would argue with this point. ( except the definition of 'near future')

[bradyfan]

However, what is holding LU back right now and for good reason is...wins. I don't have any inside information or any of that. On the other hand, I can read people quite well and when Jerry said that we need to win the FCS, that was a message to Rocco. That was Jerry saying that Liberty is going to move up in the near future but we need to compete in the FCS, and if Rocco wants to continue to be a part of this movement, he needs to win. Liberty is going to make the move regardless of who is coaching. If Rocco doesn't get us to playoffs this year, I would highly question his future in Lynchburg.

The first part of your post had so many debatable issues I thought I'd focus on what most people agree on. I'm not sure there are too many people who would argue with this point. ( except the definition of 'near future')

Near future = within 3 years.

[Purple Haize]

However, what is holding LU back right now and for good reason is...wins. I don't have any inside information or any of that. On the other hand, I can read people quite well and when Jerry said that we need to win the FCS, that was a message to Rocco. That was Jerry saying that Liberty is going to move up in the near future but we need to compete in the FCS, and if Rocco wants to continue to be a part of this movement, he needs to win. Liberty is going to make the move regardless of who is coaching. If Rocco doesn't get us to playoffs this year, I would highly question his future in Lynchburg.

The first part of your post had so many debatable issues I thought I'd focus on what most people agree on. I'm not sure there are too many people who would argue with this point. ( except the definition of 'near future')

Near future = within 3 years.

That's why I said it was debateable.

[bradyfan]

Yeah, I just wanted to clarify my definition of that. Basically, if we don't move up in the next couple of years...we probably won't move up for a while. I'm expecting the landscape to significantly change but be done with changing by 2013. It's likely going to really settle down after that and if you haven't made a move by then, you'll most likely be waiting. Thus, if Liberty does indeed move up, it's more likely to be within 3 years rather than 5-7.

[logic]

Yes. Time is limited. The future is now. Need to move up and cement ourselves with the big boys. LUOnline may not last forever. Destiny awaits. We were never meant to be small-time. Large major Division I university with all the perks of a big school (athletics, academics, arts) with the feel of a small bible college. The grandest of all grand experiments.

BCS national title is the goal and I want to live to see it. If that means drinking some Kool-aid and living in a dream world I'm all for it. But wait, isn't that called vision?

Remember Doc was laughed off the stage when he started this place...but Thomas Edison once had this to say about a man with desire -


"I had learned, from years of experience with men, that when a man really desires a thing so deeply that he is willing to stake his entire future on a single turn of the wheel in order to get it, he is sure to win."

[Purple Haize]

BCS national title is the goal and I want to live to see it. If that means drinking some Kool-aid and living in a dream world I'm all for it. But wait, isn't that called vision?."

It can be called several things

[jbock13]

BCS national title is the goal and I want to live to see it. If that means drinking some Kool-aid and living in a dream world I'm all for it. But wait, isn't that called vision?."

It can be called several things

[TH Spangler]

Liberty always exceeds it's goals .... If D1-A is it .... it will happen! Watch!