[jcmanson]

Purple, I disagree with you. I would never choose a VT football game over a Liberty football game.

I live in Oklahoma. Saturday football is big around here. I would argue bigger than it is in Blacksburg. I live within 2 1/2 hours of OU, OSU and Arkansas. I enjoy the experience at each one of these stadiums. I have a family member that has a luxury box at the Arkansas games at Donald W Reynolds Razorback Stadium in Fayetteville. I've watched great games there against Tennessee, Alabama, Florida, Auburn, Georgia, Texas, USC among others. I have sat in the end zone seats, luxury box, club seats, upper deck when it was 100 degrees and upper deck when it was freezing. It is a great place to watch a game and this year their team is very good. I have the option to go to any game there that I want. I was offered tickets (50-yard line, row 8 ) to watch the Razorbacks play at Cowboy Stadium against Texas A&M, but instead I chose to drive to Liberty's Homecoming game with my family. I have open invitations and could be also be given tickets to OU or OSU games with a phone call. Instead, our family went to 4 Liberty home games this year. I traveled to Cuba with a mission team earlier this month or I would have also gone to the GW game.

The atmosphere at Liberty football games is very good and will continue to get better. The casual football fan with no ties to Liberty would likely choose to go to a VT or UVA game over Liberty at this time. Liberty's crowds will not grow because of casual fans, however. There are a large number of Liberty alumni that live within 6 hours of Lynchburg. Each year, more of them will return for one or more games. I invited a few alumni friends that had not been to a game in Lynchburg for more than 15 years. Those that came were blown away with the changes on the campus and plan to return. Some were not able to come, but have strong interest in coming next year. When we are FBS and the teams we play are more recognizable, there will be larger groups traveling to Lynchburg on Saturdays. As soon as the schedule is announced for next season, I will try to recruit a couple hundred people to next year's games. I have a goal to get 100 people that have not been to a LU game in over 10 years to commit to coming to at least one game. I think that will happen. I agree that it is not like "Field of Dreams" where people will just show up. We need to work at it a little bit.

Hey Purple, thanks for the avatar change.

I think I love you. No homo.

[SumItUp]

How would you propose they sell them?

Since you asked, those would be wonderful seats for faculty, of whom LU has over 400, plus their families. If the seats are going to be empty anyway, why not sell them for general admission prices for our hard-working professors?

And I would suggest the same for the padded seats in the Vines.

I think it would be great to do something for the faculty, but it should not be done at the general admission price. Each ticket purchased at face value is a good deal. Normally, additional individual tickets can be purchased by Flames Club members the week prior to the game based on membership level. If any seats remain open, maybe the tickets could be sold at face value to any faculty member that is a current Flames Club member.

[SuperJon]

I don't think we're ready yet to move up. We still need a few more things in the athletic department (meaning administration, not sports) to support an FBS move.

From a football standpoint, I think we're a few years away. We don't have to be world beaters at the FCS level, but for our school, one with no geographical ties to it and a young alumni base, we need more momentum before we make the jump. We need to make the playoffs a couple of years so that we have that momentum.

[LUGrad2000]

In a word, yes.

Have I mentioned how great LU Online is lately? Well I should.

My problem is that I remember the days when they could not pay Dr. Fink or any other professors.

[flamesfan30]

i feel like this school has more money in the bank right now than every single cent in revenue from 1971 to 2007. combined. and adjusted for inflation.

[LUGrad2000]

I live and work with many graduates of Georgia Southern, which waited too long to make the transition to I-A and now eek out a nice existence in obscurity in the land of the Dawgs and the bumble bees. Now Georgia State has started a program and is in the process of making the move to I-A. Kennesaw State is starting football with the intent of going I-A. I get excited about Liberty going I-A, but then I realize we would be dancing by ourselves.

[LUGrad2000]

I coach football (Playing in the GA semifinals this Friday) and I must admit that I would go to a few more games than I do now if we were I-A. In my defense I work 70-80 hours a week during the season, excluding Sunday's from 2-9. I at least try to listen to or watch all of LU's games, but my friends that I went to school with usually don't so I bombard them with texts to make them feel at least guilty. Thye know everything about their favorite I-A school though. Fact is, they would pay more attention if we were I-A.

[aredd33]

Thye know everything about their favorite I-A school though. Fact is, they would pay more attention if we were I-A.

I'll never understand why there are so many people at this school that care more about other football teams...SCHOOLS THAT THEY DO NOT GO TO!!!!!!!!! It makes me so mad that more people care about VT, UNC, FSU, Florida, Miami, OU, Texas, USC, Ohio St., Michigan..etc. These people go to LIBERTY but they care 500 times more about other schools than LU. There is this one SUV is see everyday that has N.C. State stickers on it and it flys an N.C. State flag everyday...I don't understand obviously he doesn't go to N.C. State.

[kuntryboimike]

Thye know everything about their favorite I-A school though. Fact is, they would pay more attention if we were I-A.

I'll never understand why there are so many people at this school that care more about other football teams...SCHOOLS THAT THEY DO NOT GO TO!!!!!!!!! It makes me so mad that more people care about VT, UNC, FSU, Florida, Miami, OU, Texas, USC, Ohio St., Michigan..etc. These people go to LIBERTY but they care 500 times more about other schools than LU. There is this one SUV is see everyday that has N.C. State stickers on it and it flys an N.C. State flag everyday...I don't understand obviously he doesn't go to N.C. State.

Leave a note! I would if I saw it. I saw a pic of this girl on facebook that's a liberty student wearing a JMU JACKET!!!! OHHHHH I WAS SO MAD!!!! It's even worse when the school liberty students cheer for aren't even FBS!!!!

[Purple Haize]

SUM nice post. Now only if you could live up to your name sake and be more brief!!

While I do appreciate your list of "Where I have seen football games" it is not really relevant. Simply because I don't think it is wise to move to the BCS doens''t mean I think LU has a bad football atmosphere. We can fill a very unique niche with our alumni and community without making the jump.
Further you make my point by saying that the casual fan would, at this stage chose a VT or UVA game over an LU game. Well, it is the casual fan we would have to win over. And if we can't start winning them over NOW, we are in a pickle. We have GREAT facilities, GREAT price and a GREAT atmosphere. But to the casual fan will the prospect of playing Akron instead of Gardner Webb be what pushes them over the top to come to a game? The "shine' of being BCS will only last a season at most, then what?
You also hit on the solution. We need MORE people who are fired up enough to get people to games. It will take work at the grass roots level. The question is do we have the alumni base that is willing to put in that work? A smart man once said "The most expensive seat in the house is an EMPTY seat in the house."

[Schfourteenteen]

It will take work at the grass roots level.

OOO OOO OOO We have a group that does that stuff, right?

[Purple Haize]

SCH - IMO, it has to come from the people themselves not the athletic department. The Athletic Department can do a good job facilitating that, but it will take people like SUM to get their circle of friends motivated and involved.

[rueful]

honestly, i think it would be more appealing to play the likes of akron, bowling green, etc. as opposed to presbyterian, gardner-webb, whoever. the casual football fan doesnt view us as d1-aa, but rather as D2 and a waste of time. playing in the FBS (not BCS) people can at least say yeah i have heard of that school before

[Cider Jim]

Rueful, do you really think that the "casual football fan" in Lynchburg knows any more about Akron or Bowling Green football than they do about Gardner-Webb or Presby football?

For the most of the locals, if it's not the ACC, do they even care or know about the MAC teams?

[From the class of 09]

Rueful, do you really think that the "casual football fan" in Lynchburg knows any more about Akron or Bowling Green football than they do about Gardner-Webb or Presby football?

For the most of the locals, if it's not the ACC, do they even care or know about the MAC teams?

Let's be real the MAC > BCS....not that it's saying a lot

[LUconn]

I think you mean BSC.

[Cider Jim]

But at least in the BSC, you get to play some in-state teams like VMI and Radford. If LU were to join the MAC, how many of us (besides sumitup) would be going to those away games in the midwest?

[logic]

Jim - Radford doesn't have football. In state rivalries are nice but not needed and perhaps overrated (see any major conference - OSU/Mich, Texas / oklahoma, Pitt / WVU, etc)

Purple - Unfortunately you are forgetting the mission of this place - let me refresh you -

1. Big-time national / world class university.

How many big time places have FCS football? All Big Ten / ACC / SEC / PAC-10 schools are for the most part driven by big-time football. The goal is a big-time university with 25,000 students on campus and winning NCAA championships in all sports.


2. Matthew 5:16. This is written on a plaque inside the Hancock building. We have a unique opportunity here to cast a light far and wide - football playing in a prime time 8:00 PM game on ESPN will do that, and the announcers will always label us "that Christian school." The traditionalists will loathe this comment but one national prime time ESPN game alone is worth a thousand mission trips with regards to spreading the light referred to in that passage.


3. National championships in all sports. Look at the Olympic sports and other sports besides football/basketball. Anyone winning a team NCAA title for the most part will have big-time FBS football. The best recruits in the country across all sports want a big-time atmosphere and football is the engine that drives that culture. Look at the directors cup standings - the system used to rank athletics departments as a whole - only one FCS school (Princeton) in the top 50. Not going FBS makes it that much tougher for Liberty's 20 other sports to beat their FBS counterparts and remember there is no D1-AA for any other sport.


4. Academic prestige - Faculty, other administrators, and casual fans may disagree, but the fact remains that for the most part a better FBS football program will raise the academic profile of the school as well. The average American for example knows little about the fact that Ohio State has a world class Veterinary school, but the Buckeyes excel in football / basketball and have a "big-time national university" and so surely the average American thinks it must be good academically. The popularity of a good FBS football program can absolutely raise the value of a degree from said school. I don't know much about Boise State or TCU academically but they have gained widespread popularity and have become a household name because of football, and we all know that applications to a school go up significantly after a successful football season. Williams College is head and shoulders above most other schools academically but the fact that no one has ever heard of it outside the northern liberal elitist circles hurts it on a nationwide scale. Likewise a Texas graduate can go anywhere in the US and every employer knows about the Longhorns. Nebraska to the Big-Ten was for the school just as good of a move academically as it was athletically.


Point being - if small time is your thing - root for Campbell or Gardner-Webb instead, two small Christian schools with no plans for any of the aforementioned dreams. If watching the Flames play Alabama on ESPN at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night sounds better - a move to FBS is obviously needed.


And to everyone - with regards to recruiting - everyone here puts way, way too much emphasis on in state recruiting. Liberty has a national appeal and we have the recruiting budget and personnel to recruit nationwide. Notre Dame has 107 on the roster with 7 from Indiana.

[jbock13]

But at least in the BSC, you get to play some in-state teams like VMI and Radford. If LU were to join the MAC, how many of us (besides sumitup) would be going to those away games in the midwest?

I'd go to the ones at Ohio University because I was born an hour from there

[jbock13]

Jim - Radford doesn't have football. In state rivalries are nice but not needed and perhaps overrated (see any major conference - OSU/Mich, Texas / oklahoma, Pitt / WVU, etc)

Purple - Unfortunately you are forgetting the mission of this place - let me refresh you -

1. Big-time national / world class university.

How many big time places have FCS football? All Big Ten / ACC / SEC / PAC-10 schools are for the most part driven by big-time football. The goal is a big-time university with 25,000 students on campus and winning NCAA championships in all sports.


2. Matthew 5:16. This is written on a plaque inside the Hancock building. We have a unique opportunity here to cast a light far and wide - football playing in a prime time 8:00 PM game on ESPN will do that, and the announcers will always label us "that Christian school." The traditionalists will loathe this comment but one national prime time ESPN game alone is worth a thousand mission trips with regards to spreading the light referred to in that passage.


3. National championships in all sports. Look at the Olympic sports and other sports besides football/basketball. Anyone winning a team NCAA title for the most part will have big-time FBS football. The best recruits in the country across all sports want a big-time atmosphere and football is the engine that drives that culture. Look at the directors cup standings - the system used to rank athletics departments as a whole - only one FCS school (Princeton) in the top 50. Not going FBS makes it that much tougher for Liberty's 20 other sports to beat their FBS counterparts and remember there is no D1-AA for any other sport.


4. Academic prestige - Faculty, other administrators, and casual fans may disagree, but the fact remains that for the most part a better FBS football program will raise the academic profile of the school as well. The average American for example knows little about the fact that Ohio State has a world class Veterinary school, but the Buckeyes excel in football / basketball and have a "big-time national university" and so surely the average American thinks it must be good academically. The popularity of a good FBS football program can absolutely raise the value of a degree from said school. I don't know much about Boise State or TCU academically but they have gained widespread popularity and have become a household name because of football, and we all know that applications to a school go up significantly after a successful football season. Williams College is head and shoulders above most other schools academically but the fact that no one has ever heard of it outside the northern liberal elitist circles hurts it on a nationwide scale. Likewise a Texas graduate can go anywhere in the US and every employer knows about the Longhorns. Nebraska to the Big-Ten was for the school just as good of a move academically as it was athletically.


Point being - if small time is your thing - root for Campbell or Gardner-Webb instead, two small Christian schools with no plans for any of the aforementioned dreams. If watching the Flames play Alabama on ESPN at 8:00 PM on a Saturday night sounds better - a move to FBS is obviously needed.


And to everyone - with regards to recruiting - everyone here puts way, way too much emphasis on in state recruiting. Liberty has a national appeal and we have the recruiting budget and personnel to recruit nationwide. Notre Dame has 107 on the roster with 7 from Indiana.

Couldn't agree with you more. And let's be honest, the football stadium expansion was done to try to get some interest from FBS schools. Otherwise I don't see why we are building a 35k stadium.

[rueful]

Rueful, do you really think that the "casual football fan" in Lynchburg knows any more about Akron or Bowling Green football than they do about Gardner-Webb or Presby football?

For the most of the locals, if it's not the ACC, do they even care or know about the MAC teams?

they probably dont know much about them, but at least they have heard their name before and know they aren't DII

[Purple Haize]

LOGIC - The fallacies in your arguments may need you to change your name. I am well aware of the mission statement and 'vision' of the schools founder. And there is more then one way to achieve that. I will touch on a few points:
Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Granted it is the NIV not the KJV, but I am not seeing anything about Football on there. I do see a call to show God's love and mercy to a world in need. Basically, it is not a good idea to use "God" to justify exploits on the athletic field. Because the counter argument would be "Well if we lose we are not following God in His will" and if we win is it because the OTHER team is not following God's will or is it pre ordained that we should win. Which if that is the case why spend the money? Why not Let go and Let God?

We need a conference affiliation that will entice ESPN to WANT to put us on their prime slot let alone against Alabama. (Even though I recall our founder wanting to see us play Notre Dame. Did this change?) LU isn't exactly the only school looking to play on that night. Heck, Boise St WAS a top 5 team and was playing on Friday Nights. We already play BCS schools and have for years. None of those had made ESPN, at any time. So we have to join a mega conference to get that slot. How would joining the ACC/Big East/SEC help us in all sports? Why would they want us?

In state recruiting is HUGE for just about any school. Yes Notre Dame is the notable exception. (You could also throw Boise St in there as well, b/c after all, it IS Idaho!) Miami is a private school as well. When they were GREAT how many in state players did they have? USC? You might want to re evaluate your statement on the OVER emphasis of in state recruits.

Despite your attempt to belittle, facts show that I am NOT thinking small. In wanting teams that are conistent in their quality and their winning, that is wanting a HUGE step. Our "Olympic" sports have had success but how many national titles? How many play offs and national titles does our Football team have? MBB has 2 appearances in the Big Dance (they even have a National Title, but I guess that doesn't count because it would be "thinking little" to acknowldege it). WBB has at least been to the Sweet 16 and become a dynasty in our conference. IMO opinion taking the next step is to be consistent winners where we are at. There are many examples of schools who have tried to skip that step only to trip and fall. I don't want LU to be that school. (Insert your Matt 5:16 ref. if you wish)

[Cider Jim]

I'd go to the ones at Ohio University because I was born an hour from there

As was I, due south, on the other side of the mighty Ohio.

[LUnpretty11]

LOGIC - The fallacies in your arguments may need you to change your name. I am well aware of the mission statement and 'vision' of the schools founder. And there is more then one way to achieve that. I will touch on a few points:
Matthew 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Granted it is the NIV not the KJV, but I am not seeing anything about Football on there. I do see a call to show God's love and mercy to a world in need. Basically, it is not a good idea to use "God" to justify exploits on the athletic field. Because the counter argument would be "Well if we lose we are not following God in His will" and if we win is it because the OTHER team is not following God's will or is it pre ordained that we should win. Which if that is the case why spend the money? Why not Let go and Let God?

We need a conference affiliation that will entice ESPN to WANT to put us on their prime slot let alone against Alabama. (Even though I recall our founder wanting to see us play Notre Dame. Did this change?) LU isn't exactly the only school looking to play on that night. Heck, Boise St WAS a top 5 team and was playing on Friday Nights. We already play BCS schools and have for years. None of those had made ESPN, at any time. So we have to join a mega conference to get that slot. How would joining the ACC/Big East/SEC help us in all sports? Why would they want us?

In state recruiting is HUGE for just about any school. Yes Notre Dame is the notable exception. (You could also throw Boise St in there as well, b/c after all, it IS Idaho!) Miami is a private school as well. When they were GREAT how many in state players did they have? USC? You might want to re evaluate your statement on the OVER emphasis of in state recruits.

Not sure how you got into God's will in winning and losing
Also, bringing up Miami and USC... Are you serious? Florida and California are two of the best producers of top athletic talent in the country (along with Texas, yes I know Sly). The point is you don't have to recruit in state well in order to be a quality team. What Logic was saying, is that is what ND has done. Why? Cause Indiana doesn't produce the same football talent as say... Florida, California, Ohio, Texas, etc.
Dr. Falwell's vision was for us to play Notre Dame in football (not just basketball).
We have had several games on ESPN3 (not earth shattering news), but if we are able to join an FBS conference, we will have the opportunity to play on ESPN. How many games have MAC teams been on ESPN? Or other "no-name" teams from "no-name"? It happens all the time. Turn the TV on to ESPN on a Wednesday night, you'll see two teams you don't care a whole lot about, but they're there. We don't have to play Alabama to get on ESPN.
About the casual fan... People do not know who Presbyterian is, and they don't know anything about them, nor do they care. You'd be kidding yourself if you don't think that a home game against Bowling Green wouldn't bring in more people than a game against Presbyterian. Why? Because it's a name they are familiar with. The "casual fan" pays attention to the name, and they hear that LU is playing a school they have heard of, that isn't thought of as being a D-2 shmo, they will be much more interested to at least want to know what happened in the game. Example: Last year LU played VMI at home. After the game, I went to Wal-Mart and an LPD officer pulled up next to me because he saw my Liberty sweatshirt, and asked who won the game. He was interested because of the name of VMI. If it was Sav St. he wouldn't have cared a lick.... either that or our football program is better off in the eyes of the locals than we think.

[Hold My Own]

Leave a note! I would if I saw it. I saw a pic of this girl on facebook that's a liberty student wearing a JMU JACKET!!!! OHHHHH I WAS SO MAD!!!! It's even worse when the school liberty students cheer for aren't even FBS!!!!

The ultimate is when you see an athlete wearing another schools gear. That's mind blowing....I know one thing, it was something you used to see a few years ago but I believe our AD made their feelings clear because it's something you'll rarely see now...if ever. Honestly, the anger some employees at LU had about this didnt make sense to me in the past but I fully understand it now. I gave a ticket to someone who wore a VT jacket this year (and my sister went there!)....they took it off

I was invited to the Uva football game this year in the University Athletic Foundation box with their VP and all the other staffers....as tempting as it was to put on my LU polo and a sport coat (it really did cross my mind) you just cant do that.....but I sure as heck wouldnt put on a UVa shirt (if I had one). I know we have some on the board that are supporters of other schools...that's cool...I think if we had what we have now back when they first exposed to their other school of choice they would be LU only fans. Could be wrong but just my opinion.