[Hold My Own]

I believe paranoia has rubbed off on him from those mentioned before

[SuperJon]

The thing that you people fail to realize, and I haven't said anything about it all season until now, is that Good To Great is not team performance. It is not record. Good to Great is talking about going from a good program to a great program. Coastal had a bad season but has a great program. We made the jump from good program to great program, and anyone who says otherwise is either a) completely uniformed or b) completely stupid. I asked around today to people that I know read this board if I was out of line for getting mad last night and they all understood exactly what I was talking about. You may not have intended to slap the team across the face but by saying, "Oh, we weren't great by any means but we're better" you did.

[thepostman]

well, if anybody is reading this board they must realize that most people on here are so proud of them and are very happy to see where this program is going....this program is turning into a great one...but to say its great right now is a little premature...all the things are happening to make it happen, and I am very encouraged....if any players are reading this board and taking what I said or anybody else said for that matter as a slap in the face, then just like you, they misinterpreted what we were saying...

then again, i still don't think Coastal is quite a "great program"...greatness is something that is thrown around so easily these days...much like in relationships the word "love" is thrown around...

I am so proud of this team and am so happy we won the Big South Championship...it was actually the first thing I told my wife when she came home yesterday from work....

but you can think what you want and get upset...but i still believe you were way off on this...as are a lot of people you are "in charge" on this board when people state their opinions...if we were trashing on the team and the program I could see your point...but i just don't...it makes no sense to me to get so upset about this....and to top it all off telling us to grow up.....its so great when that is the first thing people say when they are upset.....

I like ya Jon...but sometimes I just don't get you....but such is life i suppose

[SuperJon]

It makes no sense because you haven't been part of the process. It's as simple as that. I completely disregarded your opinion after you said you don't think we've went from a good to a great program. We have the best facilities in the state. We've made the biggest turn around in the state. We're the top recruiting team in the state. A great program is not defined by wins and losses.

[BJWilliams]

I started a discussion on AGS and I said on there that this was definitely a season to remember. won more games this year than we did in the 2 seasons prior to Coach Rocco's arrival COMBINED, completed the best season since the days of Coach Rutigliano (I was a freshman in HS that year), and are given consideration for a playoff berth (cue Jim Mora sound bite "PLAYOFFS?"). We are quickly becoming a team you do not want to forget in this state. I am very excited for the guys we could bring in next year AND for the guys coming back. I think that 2007 is a season to remember and 2008 could really be one that defines LU football.

[bigsmooth]

SJ, with all due respect we are not a "great" program.we are certainly the most improved indeed. we won our first conference championship. now if we win two or three in a row, then i would say yes. "great" is thrown around too loosely these days. in regards to you comments on recruiting, i hope you mean the FCS schools only. and im sure JMU would have something to say about that. hey we won our first conference championship and i as am alumni am so proud. we have a ways to go to be great, but we are on that road. and im not uninformed or stupid either...well at least not today! SJ, i understand where you are coming from and i know you are "in" with the program, but just step back and think a bit more on this.

[thepostman]

It makes no sense because you haven't been part of the process. It's as simple as that. I completely disregarded your opinion after you said you don't think we've went from a good to a great program. We have the best facilities in the state. We've made the biggest turn around in the state. We're the top recruiting team in the state. A great program is not defined by wins and losses.

wow...awesome response...there is just nothing to say except that maybe you are just way, way too close to the program to realize what you are saying...I know its more then just wins and losses...we are on on way to greatness....just not there yet...

like smoothie said, just take a step back for a second man

[SuperJon]

You can say what you want, say I misinterpreted the meaning, or whatever, but I still think this thread should not have happened, not in the way that it did. I'm not the only person that didn't like it, I'm just the only one that posts on here. Saying I'm too close is an excuse for saying that yea, people who put time into the program could get offended by this thread. We won the Big South and no less than an hour after we're talking about did the season live up to expectations and crap like that. You may have had the best intentions in the world with this thread but the way it was worded and the way it was presented is what I have a problem with. The goal from the outset of the season was Big South champs and we did that to the tune of winning by 30+ points a game, and we're talking about only going good to better. Give me a break.

[thepostman]

again, this is a message board...this is what message boards are about....we weren't trashing the team...but fine, you can have your opinion..I am just shocked that you of all people are crashing down on a thread...especially since you get all upset when people are being uptight.....

[thesportscritic]

We are on our way but we are not great yet. lets see some consistency year after year and this year is a start of great things.

[Fumblerooskies]

I've been watching...until now. If I am not mistaken, the title is "Rate the Season," not "Rate the Program." It was a fine season...but I think the heightened expectations and hopes means a great season 2 short years ago is now a "better" season in 2007. Going from six to eight wins is better...nine or ten ( and a playoff berth) would have been "great."

Certainly, we have the makings of something great...in all aspects. One of the marks of the Karcher era was turnover...in players...in coaches...and especially in support staff...those folks behind the scenes would are often instrumental in a program's success. Under Rocco...the stability appears to be there, now...the talent and the system is in place...
...and THAT is how we will make the move from...
..."Better to Great in Oh-Eight!"

[ToTheLeft]

It makes no sense because you haven't been part of the process. It's as simple as that. I completely disregarded your opinion after you said you don't think we've went from a good to a great program. We have the best facilities in the state. We've made the biggest turn around in the state. We're the top recruiting team in the state. A great program is not defined by wins and losses.

wow...awesome response...there is just nothing to say except that maybe you are just way, way too close to the program to realize what you are saying...I know its more then just wins and losses...we are on on way to greatness....just not there yet...

like smoothie said, just take a step back for a second man

I have to agree with postie.

Jon, this is a message board, it is for fans. That's why it is called FlameFans.

No one is bashing the team, no one meant any disrespect...

People from the team read it, and might not like it.... Great. They don't have to read it. This site is not a part of the Sports Information Department or anything like that, it is a group of fans.

You are out of line saying that this thread was wrong because you and your insider informants don't like it. This is what fans think about. We were told Good to Great, whether that was fair or not, and that isn't what we got. We lost to W and M, we couldn't finish against Toledo, we got whipped by Elon. There is nothing great about that man, I'm sorry.

I was as happy as anyone when we won, you know that. I am in love with this team.

But I am not going to always say the things that make the team happy. They know they left wins on the field this year. They left their playoff hopes scattered between Ohio, Virginia, and North Carolina.

And if we as "normal fans" aren't a part of the process, maybe we should stop showing up and paying money to watch this team and show our support. I am involved in this freakin' process, okay? I give of my time and money to support this team, and I do so because I love it. I understand we are improving, and that I haven't been here to see the worst of times. But we are not a great team. Appy is a great team, we are not on that level. We want to be, I am sure everyone who posted in this thread want us to reach and then blow past that point. We have a great place to play with great coaches and great people.

Completely disregard any and all points I made, but remember, just like knuckle with his band (not trying to bring up bad memories, just using an example) you are too close to the program to be objective.

Sorry, but it's true.

We are not a great team. Great teams don't leave playoff bids on the field against Middle of the Road/Bottom Tier CAA teams.

I am proud to be a Flame, we are sprinting in the right direction.

But we are not great.

Sorry to disappoint.

[TIMSCAR20]

I have to agree that we are not a great team. SJ I understand your passion but I think there is nothing wrong with this board or this thread. The truth is that 5 years ago you couldn't find 12 people to get on a forum like this and that included family of the athletes. No one really cared about Liberty athletics. Now many, many people do, our athletics program is experiencing unprecedented success and we just won the biggest game of our football history. Not to mention the atmosphere of the games and the tailgating. There is a lot to be proud of. I live Liberty athletics. Everyone that ever works with me on my contracts in the corporate world knows all about our school and our athletics even when we weren't doing that well. Trust me, this thread should not be taken to be offensive. It may have been a little early to grade a season that still had a chance to have a playoff appearance so that would be perhaps the only legitimate gripe IMO. At 3:30 today that became a moot point as well (its moot not mute like an announcer said today during a game. I could just see Luconn throwing a shoe at the TV). I love your passion for this team and I love this team. I will say this though. No GREAT team has ever missed the playoffs in any sport. There have been great teams not win or not realize their final goal but it is difficult to call a team GREAT when they are not even invited to the post season. IMO we can and will be GREAT very soon. Looking forward to the future on the grid iron. Go Flames!

[Hold My Own]

Hey...to me winning our FIRST Big South Title is GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAT!

On the trophy they received it doest say....

*Liberty University won the Big South title although they only had a good season....it wasnt great

[SuperJon]

When has Good to Great meant anything about the team? It hasn't. That's what I can't seem to get through to people. The motto was not for the team. It was for the program. We may not be a great program yet but we are very, very close. Great programs don't always win every game. Youngstown St is a great program and didn't make the playoffs this year. I'm glad we have passionate fans. Having a "rate the season" thread isn't a bad thing. We should have one. My problem with it is the way it was done and when it was done. There are other ways to have a "rate the season" thread without ripping on the team saying they didn't live up to expectations because when it all boils down to it, the team met every single goal it had during the season: Win the Big South. It was the people on this board that made the expectations higher than that. Nowhere, ever, did anyone inside of Hancock or the FOC EVER say anything about something past the Big South Championship. The problem I have is not with what was said, it was with how it was said.

[RagingTireFire]

I'm not going to even dignify this discussion with an opinion. The fact that this thread even exists is an insult to our guys.