[Jonathan Carone]

Make a decision like what? He made the decision to have sex with a girl he thought was consenting with him. It wasn't a violent rape situation. I'm not condoning what he did, but there's more nuance to the situation than your hot take machine is currently comprehending.

[olldflame]

Legally if alcohol is involved, a girl can't consent.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not buying that any time a woman drinks a beer and then has sex it is rape Somewhere in there it has to be determined whether she was impaired or not

[Jonathan Carone]

Sorry for the confusion. If she's legally drunk, she can't consent.

[BJWilliams]

Pardon me for not thinking in shades of gray with a situation where even if youre at a party, you ought to be thinking with your ACTUAL head, not the one south of the equator

[Jonathan Carone]

I'm glad you never made any mistakes in college. Way to have the moral high ground.

[BJWilliams]

Oh I made mistakes Jon...I just have chosen not to share them publicly (and one was deleted from the board before I could have ended up in some MAJOR trouble)

[thepostman]

I get what BJ is trying to say but as always he is a bit over the top.

A college athlete in today's world needs to be made well aware of the risks and making these kinds of poor decisions. I'm not sure what the athletic department does to educate their athletes on these kinds of issues but if they are serious about it maybe they should look at improving these efforts.

Just a thought.

[Jonathan Carone]

I get what he's trying to say but he's forgetting it's 22 year olds we are talking about and there's girls involved. Even sober I did stupid things at that age.

Again, I'm not condoning sexual assault, but given the details of the situations that I know, this was a mistake tons of guys make every semester.

[thepostman]

Yeah. I completely agree. It's such a tough issue.

[forbidden]

I haven't posted in awhile, as I am enjoying my boi's final go around myself, except it sucks he's not on the field. He grads in December and is off to grad school somewhere. Bottom line, in all of this is the fact that that letter of NO sex or whatever LU has them sign is in FULL effect, so regardless, he was cooked once the precedence was set with the previous situation. December can't get here fast enough

[FlamesHighontheTide]

After taking sometime to read all of yalls' comments. I wanted to make a few observations.

1. The point was made that we all made stupid mistakes at some point in our life and yes that is absolutely correct. I for one can never throw the first stone. However, Turner Gill gives them his grace speech before they ever play football for LU and in that speech he gives them the universities rules and then his own policies. He then has them sign some sort of covenant between them, the university and Coach Gill. I know for a fact Gill desires for each of his players to strive to be the best men they can be and he personally as well as his staff spend time trying to disciple these young men. With that said, when you break the rules of the university or you go against the policies of Coach Gill then discipline happens. So, in this case with Jaron and his mistake it cost him the rest of the season. However, before he ever entertained having sex with this young lady and obviously after he had sex with her Jaron knew the consequences of his actions #1 before God it is sin and God takes no pleasure in it. #2 it is grounds for termination from the team and university.

2. The point was made that these guys are college kids and to expect them not to entertain sexual relations with young women is unrealistic. I do not intend for my response to this to seem holier than thou, believe me I have gone against what God says in His word before in this particular topic(sexual conduct before marriage). However, what about holiness and the pursuit of it by a believer in Christ? What about being a man of integrity after you sign the covenant given by the coach? What about just growing up and being a man and keeping your pants on.

Again, I am not trying to be holier than thou, but brothers we(always including myself) have got to pursue holiness and be an example for our sons and the young men that we are influencing. There are to many poor role models of manhood out there already. May we not fall into that category EVER!!!

I am beyond thankful for Turner Gill's covenant and expectation with his players. It shows me that he cares more for the soul of his players and their own personal holiness than about the success of the program aka wins and losses. These kind of men in main-steam athletics are hard to come by.

[Jonathan Carone]

We pursue holiness because we are christians. I don't pretend to think everyone in the locker room is though. That's where the nuance comes in. I'm not justifying behavior but I don't expect non christians to have the same values as Christians.

[jinxy]

Forbidden i thought wes was coming back for one more year post injury?

[JK37]

We pursue holiness because we are christians. I don't pretend to think everyone in the locker room is though. That's where the nuance comes in. I'm not justifying behavior but I don't expect non christians to have the same values as Christians.

I'm confused. are you saying the non-Christian kids should be given more leniency?

[R i]

I haven't posted in awhile, as I am enjoying my boi's final go around myself, except it sucks he's not on the field. He grads in December and is off to grad school somewhere. Bottom line, in all of this is the fact that that letter of NO sex or whatever LU has them sign is in FULL effect, so regardless, he was cooked once the precedence was set with the previous situation. December can't get here fast enough

So W.S. didn't know the rules when he decided to come to Liberty ? Or he did and decided that they didn't apply to him and the football team ?

Your comment of " December cannot come soon enough " makes me think that you and your son are appalled by the decisions the school has made regarding players that drink and have sex. Gill seems to be pretty straight forward with what he expects out of his players when they sign.

Liberty is not like any other school, in this regard. It is on the coach to make sure players know this when choosing to play here. I would have a little more sympathy if Gill seemed to be sketchy in the recruiting process, and not inform them of the mission of the school.

[forbidden]

Forbidden i thought wes was coming back for one more year post injury?

graduating next month and gonna start coaching, he doesn't want to stay and play as he says the guys he came with are all graduating and leaving. Could he come back or go elsewhere yes, his "obligation" to LU is done. He wants to get into coaching and doesn't feel the need to delay the opportunity.

[jinxy]

Im not saying he had an onligation. I get it. Probably a good move. Also agree with RI and Jks posts above.

[forbidden]

I haven't posted in awhile, as I am enjoying my boi's final go around myself, except it sucks he's not on the field. He grads in December and is off to grad school somewhere. Bottom line, in all of this is the fact that that letter of NO sex or whatever LU has them sign is in FULL effect, so regardless, he was cooked once the precedence was set with the previous situation. December can't get here fast enough

So W.S. didn't know the rules when he decided to come to Liberty ? Or he did and decided that they didn't apply to him and the football team ?

Your comment of " December cannot come soon enough " makes me think that you and your son are appalled by the decisions the school has made regarding players that drink and have sex. Gill seems to be pretty straight forward with what he expects out of his players when they sign.

Liberty is not like any other school, in this regard. It is on the coach to make sure players know this when choosing to play here. I would have a little more sympathy if Gill seemed to be sketchy in the recruiting process, and not inform them of the mission of the school.

Let's get one thing straight right now and I'm going to only say this one time. W.S. knew the rules when he got here, you or no one else can say that you have heard his name involved in ANY situations. I am not speaking for him I speak for myself, at NO point did I say that the rules did not apply to him or his teammates. W.S. is at LU because of injury only, not any other reason, we accepted what was offered and he made the most of his time here. He made friends, he learned some life lessons that he did need I will admit, and more importantly will be receiving his degree.

My comment about December is yes, his time at LU is coming to an end, the next chapter is beginning. They have nothing to do with ANY actions the school has taken because they don't concern him. His career didn't go the way we thought we took it on the chin and kept moving, no waves over here. But don't think for me or for him, we all know about assumptions. But let me tell you this, if you think that for one millisecond the majority of the team is here because they want to be here vs have to be here vs best option, you better rethink it. Yes, the majority of these kids "deal" with what they sign but don't fool yourself in thinking you would have even half this roster if they had other options, regardless of what you think I KNOW.

When the person leaves HCTG NO choice then he is following policy, don't think for one second if there was a way for #76 to be here he wouldn't be here on this roster and playing today. But real life situations have to be handled the way they have to be handled. The school was good to my kid, so no complaints there, I am happy for everything and anything they accomplish because this school is apart of me because its apart of my kid.

[forbidden]

Im not saying he had an onligation. I get it. Probably a good move. Also agree with RI and Jks posts above.

when I say obligation I'm saying staying his full 4 years and not transferring out, when he could have

[Jonathan Carone]

We pursue holiness because we are christians. I don't pretend to think everyone in the locker room is though. That's where the nuance comes in. I'm not justifying behavior but I don't expect non christians to have the same values as Christians.

I'm confused. are you saying the non-Christian kids should be given more leniency?

No. Not at all. I'm saying I expect them to make stupid decisions, especially with girls, because they're college kids not being led by the same values as Christians. Rules are rules and they are for everyone, but I'm not going to be surprised or try to hold a moral high ground when a college kid has sex.

[BJWilliams]

WHile I don't take your nuanced view on things Jon, I will agree that...as our seminary professor Dr Wheeler would put it, "lost people act lost" so to expect them to act otherwise would be incompatible with who they are.

[JK37]

Forbidden, are you saying the majority of the roster had no other options but Liberty scholarship-wise?

[forbidden]

I'm saying the majority accepted LU as the best of what they had available, I'm sure maybe one or two actually chose LU, but I know majority fell in love with who fell in love with them.

[Jonathan Carone]

You say that like it's not how things are at 90% of schools.

[thepostman]

Especially at our level.