[Jonathan Carone]

For the record 2 years ago CSU did not pass us, they sat on their butts and watched us on the TV beat JMU and almost beat Villanova.

This is correct. My two years statement was that over that time they have caught and passed us. In 2014 they beat us to pull ahead but we took the lead again by beating Coastal. They came back and passed us last year by beating us and then took it further by going further in the playoffs.

That's how quickly these things can change. If we can beat them this year and have a playoff run, we will be back in the lead. Currently though, they're winning.

[BJWilliams]

Not outwitted necessarily...just pointing out a logical omission in your prior absolute statement. You simply said that they had a better regular season than we ever had. You made no mention of playoff berths, autobids (which wouldn't even be available to the Big South until 2010), who the coach was, or any sort of qualifier which would have bolstered the logic behind your statement (and I likely would have agreed with you at face value)...just that they had a better regular season than we ever had

[Jonathan Carone]

This is FCS football. Mentioning the playoffs wasn't needed because it's a logical assumption given the level of play. Anyone who compares seasons is going to first look for a playoff appearance.

[BJWilliams]

Well that can't be true because I look at W-L first...so I must be an odd duck

[thepostman]

Why are BJ and BYD getting so stuck on the fact some of us believe CSU has passed us? This is not a unique statement made in the world of sports. Fans talk about this kind of thing all the time. CSU has accomplished things we have been attempting to accomplish but have failed. I'm not sure how that isn't an indicator that they have passed us and deserve to be the favorite in our conference.

Liberty has all the tools to be at the top of the league as early as this year. We shall see how it all shakes out.

[Jonathan Carone]

Well that can't be true because I look at W-L first...so I must be an odd duck

[thepostman]

Well that can't be true because I look at W-L first...so I must be an odd duck

So you don't even consider playoff success? That does seem odd.

[BJWilliams]

Now Jon...had you said a better season, and not just regular season...Id absolutely agree with you because that would encompass the whole body of work, regular and postseason

[Jonathan Carone]

I just think it's a silly argument. If Auburn wins the national championship you wouldn't say they had passed Alabama. They were just had a better year.

CSU had a better year than us last year. But if we hadn't forgotten what the heck we were doing for two weeks we might not be saying that. We definitely had more quality wins last season than they did.

There's a difference.

This is an ongoing fluid race. If Auburn beat Alabama and won the national championship, they would have passed Bama for that year and would be in the lead until the next time they played. Nothing is ever set in stone and it changes year to year. That's why we play the games. It's why we can have hope that we can take the lead back.

[Jonathan Carone]

Now Jon...had you said a better season, and not just regular season...Id absolutely agree with you because that would encompass the whole body of work, regular and postseason

That's just dumb. Anyone not named BJ Williams would look at those two seasons objectively and say CSU 15 was better than LU 08, 07, or 97.

[Jonathan Carone]

Also, if I wanted to actually break down your argument, CSU 15 didn't lose to an FCS school until the playoffs. LU 08 lost to Presbyterian. Your argument is still invalid.

[BJWilliams]

Well that can't be true because I look at W-L first...so I must be an odd duck

So you don't even consider playoff success? That does seem odd.

I do think about playoff success...when looking at the overall body of work. He simply said REGULAR season, so naturally I make the limit in my mind to look at only what occurs from game 1 to game whatever the last game of the regular season happens to be. In the 2015 season (overall body of work), they won 10 games, earned a playoff berth, a bye and made the quarterfinals. In the regular season, they won 9 games, and finished undefeated in conference. In our best regular season in school history, we won 10 games and also finished undefeated in conference.

[Jonathan Carone]

You said 08. We lost to PC in 08.

Also - in our best season we had two sub division I wins. They only had one in theirs.

[BJWilliams]

That I agree with (and I still shake my head at that game)...the thing was, that game did not count toward the Big South standings, so we still were undefeated in conference (PC would count in the conference standings the very next year)

[Jonathan Carone]

You're making my argument for me. In CSU's best year, they didn't lose an FCS game until the playoffs. We lost to an FCS school (Lafayette) and an FCS transitional school that wasn't even eligible to be in a conference.

I also can't believe I let Beej suck me into this argument and get this involved. Old habits die hard.

[BJWilliams]

Youre adding qualifiers in that were not made in your original statement. You said that they had a better regular season than we have ever had. You did not say anything about earning an automatic playoff berth (which was not available to us in 2008 anyway), you didn't say anything about losing to FCS schools, you didn't say anything about playoff results even. When you look at the win-loss totals and JUST the win-loss totals comparing the two regular seasons, (and again, I may be splitting hairs here in so doing) LU has had a better season.

Anyway, this is going nowhere fast...Its #BeatVaTech week and I need to wash my red shirt so it'll be available for me to wear under my work shirt on Saturday

[thepostman]

I'm confused as to why this is a debate. I feel like it is simply disagreeing for the hell of it.

[BJWilliams]

That's why I said this is going nowhere fast postie...because at this point I'd rather talk about the Hokies and what we hope to see from our boys up in Blacksburg and not whether or not Charleston Southern has passed us and what it means

[Jonathan Carone]

It's disagreeing because I hate ignorance and I let it get to me more than it should.

[thepostman]

It's disagreeing because I hate ignorance and I let it get to me more than it should.

I just don't get how anybody can truly say CSU hasn't past us. I makes zero sense to me. Liberty has historically underachieved. This can't be argued when being honest. Hence why I am confused as to why this is even a debate.

[Purple Haize]

It's disagreeing because I hate ignorance and I let it get to me more than it should.

I just don't get how anybody can truly say CSU hasn't past us. I makes zero sense to me. Liberty has historically underachieved. This can't be argued when being honest. Hence why I am confused as to why this is even a debate.

Agreed. They passed LU last year and are ahead of them this year. Pretty much a no brainer. Obviously not etched in stone as things can change on the field. But for now at this point in time and projecting the rest of the year they are starting ahead of LU.

[VAGolf]

We aren't just talking about one team having a better season than another. CSU is a stable program, built to be very competitive over the next five seasons. On the other hand, I wouldn't be incredibly surprised if Liberty had a losing record this season and let go of Gill after next season if he under-performs.

I won't make the argument that we've been passed by CSU, but the idea isn't crazy. CSU is the best coached team in the conference...easily. They are 2-1 against us since Chadwell took over.

Comparing this to Auburn/Alabama is a really, really bad argument. Alabama actually has a history of success, multiple championships and they send multiple players to the NFL every year. We went to the playoffs one time, a couple of years ago. So, it's quite reasonable to use recent history as a determining factor as to which program is better.

[thepostman]

Yeah. That is a good point. LU has a lot of shared big south titles and a history of losing games we shouldn't. It doesn't take long go pass us. Which CSU has done. I hope this year begins the journey of dominating the big south but we have some work to do before we can claim we are the king of the conference.

[Jonathan Carone]

So it looks like the rumors of CSU cheating may have a little teeth to them.

[thepostman]

CHARLESTON, S.C. – Charleston Southern University has self-imposed one-game suspensions for head football coach Jamey Chadwell and an assistant coach in response to a Secondary/Level III recruiting violation. This violation is a result of an impermissible social media contact with prospective student athletes. Chadwell will serve his suspension during the home game against Albany State on October 8. The assistant coach has been suspended for the Florida State game on September 10.

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