[rogers3]

Has anyone outside of Liberty mentioned our desire for FBS?

FCS fans from other schools across the country have referenced LU as a potential move-up. The biggest talk comes from some CAA and Southern Conf fans on their respective blogs. Some blow us off, others view our inclusion positively.

[jcmanson]

There was also an article awhile back before the bonds etc...stating Liberty's endowment was around 40 million...obvious that has changed...

anyway Liberty isnt that far off now with the new baseball facility and more than likely new civic center along with the football expansion, etc....

Carr’s Liberty consultation isn’t being done with a specific goal in mind -- i.e., a quick move from the Football Championship Subdivision to the Football Bowl Subdivision once the NCAA moratorium on moving between subdivisions ends in August 2011.

With conference affiliations in a state of flux right now, though, Liberty wants to be in the best position possible when the next shift happens.

“For us to get better -- and we’re not good enough at anything yet -- we need an outside set of eyes to say, you know what, we need to do X, Y and Z,” Barber said. “That’s what he’s going to do.”

http://www2.newsadvance.com/sports/2010 ... ar-539544/

I had forgotten about this. Is it finalized? What were the results?

[LUminary]

Wanting to move up and being ready to move up are fine things, but the key right now is having a place to move up to. It doesn't matter how ready any FCS program is right now, it all hinges on having an FBS conference that will take you in. That's the biggest challenge right now. Being in position is great, but you have to have an FBS conference that wants or needs you. Perhaps the best hope for all FCS programs aspiring to move up is for another round of shuffling above that will create vacancies in some FBS conferences, that or some rule changes by the NCAA to make the formation of new FBS conferences feasible.

[logic]

Rogers -

Call it cash, call it endowment, call it what you will, it is not all tied up in buildings and land...and wiki does list endowment at 530 million. Have you seen our 990's? It started with about 35 million+ in 2007 and 2010 was something like 147 million net revenues. With 60k online students I would not be surprised to see net revenues of over 200 million soon if not already. Clearly our liquid cash or endowment cannot be 6 million or 40 million or even 200 million when we've banked much more than that the past 5 years. The Chancellor has predicted a 1 billion dollar endowment by 2014 and is on record as saying as much (see articles posted above).

[logic]

I could not find any later 990's..

http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf ... 06_990.pdf


Cash operating net revenues of 67 million in 2007 and 74 million in 2008. These are not assets as in buildings or land - program revenue minus expenses - cash.

We have 61,000 online students...take a conservative estimate of 7,000 a year for online tuition and you're looking at just online total revenues of over 400 million. What the net revenue of that is I have no idea but again I am guessing it is around or above 200 million.

2007 - 67m
2008 - 74m
2009 - ? 100+ ?
2010 - ? 147+ ?
2011 - ? 200+ ?

There is your 500 million right there - easy to see the 1 billion estimate by 2014 being a reality with 60,000 + online students.

The numbers are staggering really, and Rogers I would most definitely agree with you when you say we can pull the trigger and be ready to go whenever we're called up!

[Chris Lang]

There was also an article awhile back before the bonds etc...stating Liberty's endowment was around 40 million...obvious that has changed...

anyway Liberty isnt that far off now with the new baseball facility and more than likely new civic center along with the football expansion, etc....

Carr’s Liberty consultation isn’t being done with a specific goal in mind -- i.e., a quick move from the Football Championship Subdivision to the Football Bowl Subdivision once the NCAA moratorium on moving between subdivisions ends in August 2011.

With conference affiliations in a state of flux right now, though, Liberty wants to be in the best position possible when the next shift happens.

“For us to get better -- and we’re not good enough at anything yet -- we need an outside set of eyes to say, you know what, we need to do X, Y and Z,” Barber said. “That’s what he’s going to do.”

http://www2.newsadvance.com/sports/2010 ... ar-539544/

I had forgotten about this. Is it finalized? What were the results?

I asked Jeff about this at Big South media day, and he basically said Carr told him there were some specific areas that needed improvement, like facilities and addition of coaches, and that the school was working on those things. That's probably why you saw the addition of a softball assistant coach this year. They had always been a two-person staff as far as I can remember.

[jcmanson]

Thanks Chris. So, I guess the AD won't release an official report from them. Oh well.

[rogers3]

2007 - 67m
2008 - 74m
2009 - ? 100+ ?
2010 - ? 147+ ?
2011 - ? 200+ ?

There is your 500 million right there - easy to see the 1 billion estimate by 2014 being a reality with 60,000 + online students.

The numbers are staggering really, and Rogers I would most definitely agree with you when you say we can pull the trigger and be ready to go whenever we're called up!

Logic, This is what I gleaned from the return:
Sch D, Part V-
beginning of the year endowment balance was 7.2M
end of the year endowment balance was 7.4M

Like I mentioned before, the 530M and 1B numbers represented assets, not cash on hand in an endowment. LU does not fund its endowment with net revenues; these funding numbers are also on Sch D. Liberty's net revenues go into capital improvements, which are amortized instead of expensed. Thus, new buildings or principal payments on loans are included in net profits.
LU is a strong institution, but we are not well endowed. Don't take that personally- I am talking about the school!.

[RVAparks]

There is nothing to be jealous of regarding them right now.

I'm a little jealous of their 3 rings, just saying...

[TH Spangler]

What is an endowment?
http://www.give.appstate.edu/endowments.html

[logic]

So perhaps there is very little "endowment" that is officially locked up in a true "endowment" as in the strict dictionary definition.

Forget endowment - call it cash - I am guessing there is close to 500 million on hand. If we're using 120 million worth of bonds to pay for capital projects then no, net revenues are not going to that purpose. The whole point of taking the bonds was so we didn't have to use cash as we were doing in the past. Again look at the balance sheets - program revenues = student paid tuition, etc. expenses = everything we pay for. Net revenue = cash.

2007 - 67 m
2008 - 74 m
2009 - 144 m
2010 - ?
2011 - ?

If we're "only" spending 120 million on construction we have much more than a 7 million endowment - we just arent technically putting it there.

[logic]

But I think we can all agree that regardless of where it goes or what we call it -

1. We're all thankful for it
2. It will allow the entire university to flourish
3. Will allow athletics to go as far as our imagination will take us


God is good!!

[R i]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/ ... NDANCE.pdf

There are lots of factors we can look at , money being a major one. Another is attendance. There are 9 FCS schools that averaged higher attendance than we did last year. 2 of those were in our state.

[rogers3]

I doubt it, logic. It doesn't mean we have no cash; just that we spend it... and build that portfolio of assets with it (campus structures and properties). It would be highly abnormal to have as much cash on hand as our net revenues, and there definitely would be no cumulative effect. I think that LU is able to move quickly based on the fact that we do so much without a large endowment. LU is operating more like a business- money in and money out. I'd bet that after the campus is rebuilt, more effort will be made to bolster the endowment and we will see more discussion regarding the quality of our educational offerings compared to those of our peer schools.

Lastly- I think we can all agree that regardless of where it goes or what we call it -

1. We're all thankful for it
2. It will allow the entire university to flourish
3. Will allow athletics to go as far as our imagination will take us


God is good!!

Just was easy to copy and paste!

[Sly Fox]

And every single one of those 9 are discussing a step up. It should also be noted that with the exception of Jacksonville State, each would make a very logical partner in starting a new league or creating a new division of an existing league. I think most of us view JMU & ODU as allies in any group move or potential CAA league-wide step-up.

[R i]

my point .. its not LU vs. App State. Its LU vs. Lots of others. Or like you mentioned. LU with Lots of others.

[jcmanson]

And every single one of those 9 are discussing a step up.

Not Harvard and Jackson State

[PAmedic]

an interesting note: many of points mentioned when arguing against moving up would apply to UMass as well, though I suppose historically they've had a better program than ours. They do have a Nat'l Champ in I-AA, numerous playoff runs and have been better over the years.

but as far as size, attendance, recent records, success at this level, growth potential ... I think its almost a wash. Throw in their other sports (with hoops being the obvious exception, and admittedly a BIG one) we're right there. Yet its a no-brainer that they move up while we get looked at sideways.

then again, we're in the BSOUTH and they're... NOT.

[jcmanson]

Good point about UMass. Though they are a state school and "supposedly" bring a big TV market.

But their basketball team hasn't really been that great. Sure they had a nice run with Calipari & Camby, but that's been tainted. In the past 3 years they are 39-53. The past 8 years they are 127-119. Not much to write home about.

[rogers3]

I would love to hear some of the chatter among league leaders as they discuss the pros and cons of LU's inclusion. As was mentioned, our best bet would be within a group of other schools stepping up. The thing we have is money without strings- other school leaders can talk about a lack of parity in regards to history or educational reputation, but these days, money talks and all else walks.

[PAmedic]

educational reputation

just sayin'

[rogers3]

educational reputation

just sayin'

Yeahhh.... maybe we'll be there about 20 years after we reach the paradise otherwise known as FBS.

[From the class of 09]

educational reputation

Unless your ivy no one cares. You saw how much it mattered when the AAU dropped Nebraska this summer to the Big 10. The SEC has never acted like they care about books and such.

[From the class of 09]

Really? The Big Ten definitely cares a lot about educational reputation. So does the ACC. So does the PAC-12. The rest of them not as much, but I would definitely argue that the SEC has some excellent academic institutions. Vandy, Florida, Alabama, Tennessee, and Kentucky are all excellent universities with a variety of specialties.

Oh sure they all say they care but when it comes down to it all they care about is dollars. Academic reputation won't be a reason we move up or don't.

Really

[Kricket]

According to ESPN.com, SMU (out of C-USA) is looking to replace Texas A&M. This could mean that C-USA has an opening for App State, or other FCS teams looking to make the move... We might not be first in line but our opportunity may be sooner than many of us think.