[ToTheLeft]

You proved my point for me by mentioning that we couldn't beat SBU. And you proved my point by questioning how we could perform in the CAA, and how that corresponds to us being in the playoffs. We don't know if we're really cut out for this kind of challenge.

We will continue to improve. We dedicate a lot of time, money, and effort to football. It will keep getting better.

However, it's hardly one game that has me worried. Almost losing to CSU, losing to SBU, losing to JMU, losing to Lafayette, losing to a down William and Mary team, getting kicked in the teeth by Elon. I think we need to see how we do with the pressure on before we start stitching CAA badges to our jerseys.

No your original post was that its easier to run the slate in the BS (to get the auto-bid) then loose a game or 2 in the CAA and still make the Post Season. Now your saying that we can't win the BS so we shouldn't leave for a new conference? The question is, "in the future which conference puts us in the best position to make and win in the post-season?"

Easy answer the CAA (because of the multi bids each year). Our facilities are as good as if not better than anyone in the CAA, our coach is as good as if not better than anyone in the CAA, our school spends as much money on FB as any CAA school if not more, and our fan base is growing to compete with any CAA school. Why could we not compete with these schools?

At least 1/5 of the roaster changes ever year. The earliest move would likely be 2012-13 year. Meaning that likely half the current team would be gone, and replaced with even better players (granted this is assuming LU continues its current trend of improvement). If you can’t see that LU is on a major up swing and blowing by everyone in the BS than I can’t help you.

Your last statement is borderline ridiculous. We're nowhere near blowing by SBU. And it's only been a couple years since we started having winning seasons. Apologies that I'm drunk on the kool-aid right now.

Re: Budget...

From AGS...

"1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty"

Top 10 FCS athletics budgets. Basically we're spending more than everyone BUT the CAA.

Re: Coach...

Danny is a really good coach, but better than most if not all than the CAA coaches? Are you serious? He's on par with them maybe, but he's certainly not head and shoulders above them.

Re: My Original Point...

My original point was that we're not so dominant in the Big South to assume we're going to go catch one of the at-larges in the CAA. If we can't beat Stony Brook with the playoffs on the line, what are we going to do against Richmond and Delaware every year? If we can't beat JMU at home, what are we going to do with JMU on the road every other year? If we can't beat Lafayette at home, what are we going to do when William and Mary comes to visit. THAT's my point.

And I stressed that I don't feel like we're so far away from this level of being competitive in the CAA. The point is that we haven't proven it yet. We have one good win in the past couple years. The win over Elon. That's the ONLY good win we've had. "Being close" to JMU doesn't count, especially not in a home game.

As manson said, it's completely possible this will all be moot after this season and next. If Mike leads us to a pair of BSC titles, a couple wins over JMU, and a couple of playoff wins, we'll have proven all we need to prove. But as for now, I'll wait til we prove it on the field.

[Schfourteenteen]

WAIT.

"1. $28,956,476 Georgetown

WHAT!?!

[jcmanson]

basketball

[Schfourteenteen]

Ahhhh. All sports. Major brain lapse there. I really don't know why I assumed it was just football.

[thepostman]

haha TTL is officially back! I may not always agree with you, but you're almost as entertaining as BJ, but in a different way

[ToTheLeft]

Thanks, I think?

After one of my posts today, I sat back and said "Well that didn't take long..."

[thepostman]

Thanks, I think?

After one of my posts today, I sat back and said "Well that didn't take long..."

Oh its a good thing...I don't want you to think you are the same kind of entertaining as BJ, thats just a whole other level, haha

You get so fired up though, its always enjoyable to me. welcome back

[Hold My Own]

"1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty"

I think this is the first time I've ever really seen this mentioned on here. Talk about pressure!

[ToTheLeft]

Yeah.

And so much for us "blowing away" the Big South...

SBU is for real guys. That first game against them was a fluke. They were off that year.

[jcmanson]

"1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty"

I think this is the first time I've ever really seen this mentioned on here. Talk about pressure!

It's not like the entire top 10 brings it. I mean Penn, UMass, Lehigh, SBU???

[Hold My Own]

"1. $28,956,476 Georgetown
2. $27,789,844 Delaware
3. $27,144,748 Pennsylvania
4. $26,286,532 James Madison
5. $23,925,128 Villanova
6. $23,386,586 New Hampshire
7. $22,121,126 Massachusetts
8. $21,860,748 Lehigh
9. $21,325,452 Stony Brook
10. $20,788,336 Liberty"

I think this is the first time I've ever really seen this mentioned on here. Talk about pressure!

It's not like the entire top 10 brings it. I mean Penn, UMass, Lehigh, SBU???

Yeh, but how many heads roll in their different programs if they dont! I would imagine there is quite a bit of turnover for the non winning teams.


Keep in mind we probably have more sports then all of these teams which obviously takes your cost up...

Hmmm....but thinking about it I bet they have some that we dont being a lot of northern schools.

[jenkins]

I disagree that we aren't competing with William and Mary and JMU. If we had a kicker that could kick extra points and 25 yard field goals we beat them at home, we got an absolutely atrocious, wait assaninne spot, on 4th and goal in double overtime on the road and lose in double OT. If you weren't at that game you can't understand JUST HOW BAD that spot was on a Rashad run that ended the game and perhaps the greatest late game comeback I've seen an LU team put together in the last 7 to 8 years that I've been watching. JMU was locked up heading into the last ten minutes of the game and the Safety fell down due to the river that was running thru the sidelines that led to that 70 yarder, then we had to throw every down in sheets of rain which led to the last TD. Also, look at recruiting, the last two years and this current class we are working on we are taking guys that they have offered. That didn't happen until recently. Certainly they have a better track record than us and were still not quite there, but it's not as far as it's being made out on here. I think this year goes a long way to tell us where we are in terms of JMU.

Also, as far as the coach Rocco argument, I would put him on par with most any coach in the CAA for one simple reason. There is simply some guys we are not going to get because of the rules and the structure of the school. However, he has taken the christian aspect of the school and not shied away from it because he's realized there are some kids that we are going to get because of that. I would make the same argument for the coaches at BYU and Navy etc.

[ToTheLeft]

I disagree that we aren't competing with William and Mary and JMU. If we had a kicker that could kick extra points and 25 yard field goals we beat them at home, we got an absolutely atrocious, wait assaninne spot, on 4th and goal in double overtime on the road and lose in double OT. If you weren't at that game you can't understand JUST HOW BAD that spot was on a Rashad run that ended the game and perhaps the greatest late game comeback I've seen an LU team put together in the last 7 to 8 years that I've been watching. JMU was locked up heading into the last ten minutes of the game and the Safety fell down due to the river that was running thru the sidelines that led to that 70 yarder, then we had to throw every down in sheets of rain which led to the last TD. Also, look at recruiting, the last two years and this current class we are working on we are taking guys that they have offered. That didn't happen until recently. Certainly they have a better track record than us and were still not quite there, but it's not as far as it's being made out on here. I think this year goes a long way to tell us where we are in terms of JMU.

Also, as far as the coach Rocco argument, I would put him on par with most any coach in the CAA for one simple reason. There is simply some guys we are not going to get because of the rules and the structure of the school. However, he has taken the christian aspect of the school and not shied away from it because he's realized there are some kids that we are going to get because of that. I would make the same argument for the coaches at BYU and Navy etc.

I was at the WM game. I know how bad of a call it was. But that was a down, down WM team and we lost to them. That's my point.

And you didn't mention Elon, or Stony Brook, or Presby

[jenkins]

because i thought we were talking competing CAA only. Those are the only 3 CAA games we have played..other than Towson which was a bad loss (there CAA right?). All i'm saying is that were a mediocore kicker away from winning both those games against the tribe. I'd like to play them again, both of those games were frustrating. If your talking Elon and Presby I think we avenged those pretty well the following season. Stony Brook was and is an underrated program especially after they benefitted from Hofstra folding up tent.

[ToTheLeft]

Well, my point is just that I want to see more consistent domination of teams we "should beat" before we think about being in the top 1/4 of a conference with top 10 teams in it.

[jcmanson]

more consistent domination of teams we "should beat"

kinda like 49-10, 44-27, 33-0, 42-0, 45-10, 58-13, 55-19, 55-14, 51-28?

[BJWilliams]

I think you mean 45-7 (we havent beaten anyone 45-10 in recent history)

[From the class of 09]

Since Danny Rocco has come to town we've done amazing things. How many coaches have taken a 1-10 team and the next year go 6-5? Rocco then followed that up by winning the BS the next 3 years. That’s all you can go on for track record cuz that’s all the longer Danny's been here. Playing in the CAA will give us the better opportunity to succeed (if you want to make a run in the post-season). As you list shows we are on par with the CAA in $$$ and our facility is now up to par.

I will readily admit that LU in the PAST has had limited success against higher caliber teams, but with everything we see going on at LU this is not the same program you have become accustomed too in the past. Moving to a different conference would be about improving our position for the future and looking at the future there is no reason we cannot compete and be successful in the CAA.

[ToTheLeft]

Since Danny Rocco has come to town we've done amazing things. How many coaches have taken a 1-10 team and the next year go 6-5? Rocco then followed that up by winning the BS the next 3 years. That’s all you can go on for track record cuz that’s all the longer Danny's been here. Playing in the CAA will give us the better opportunity to succeed (if you want to make a run in the post-season). As you list shows we are on par with the CAA in $$$ and our facility is now up to par.

I will readily admit that LU in the PAST has had limited success against higher caliber teams, but with everything we see going on at LU this is not the same program you have become accustomed too in the past. Moving to a different conference would be about improving our position for the future and looking at the future there is no reason we cannot compete and be successful in the CAA.

As long as you can acknowledge that, unless we prove this year by beating JMU, we will have some struggles getting used to the CAA, then yes, it would eventually improve our standing in football.

But if the only goal is making the playoffs, then the Big South is the better place to be. If the goal is to enrich the football program for the long term, the CAA would be a better place to be. That's the thing that concerned me about your original post. The idea that "The CAA gets more bids to the playoffs so we'd have a better chance", and that's simply not true. Delaware didn't make it last year and they had a VERY, VERY good team. But if you can't win enough CAA games, you just don't make the playoffs. There is no margin for error. Losses to WM, Delaware, JMU, UMass, and Nova would ruin our playoff chances, and I really don't think you can say we'd win 3 of those games. Maybe 2, max.

[SuperJon]

The big losses that keep being brought up are Towson, W&M, Elon, and JMU.

The Towson game was played week three, right after playing two Division II schools.

The same can be said about William and Mary.

Both of those games were very close games in which we struggled out of the game. Our biggest problem was going from the speed of the game against Division II teams to the speed of the game against a legit Division I team. By the time we got used to it, we were in a hole and had to come back.

The Elon game was right on the back end of that W&M game and I think everyone and their mother overlooked Elon that year. No excuse there although the emotional drain from the week before plus the heat of that game didn't help.

JMU we simply got beat. They made a few plays and we missed a few plays and we got beat.

If we were to be in the CAA there would be an adjustment period of a year or two years. We would have to get used to playing at a very high level week in and week out. We have the talent to do that right now but we're not required to do that so it doesn't happen every week. Even when we're beating Big South teams by 50, we're not having to play at the same intensity and crispness as CAA teams.

Last year we came out against WVU and adjusted to the speed very quickly. It was the first game of the year so we hadn't gotten into our Big South speed of the game lull. We showed that we could play at a high level and high intensity. We don't do it every game now so when we have to make that jump, it takes us a little bit to adjust.

[jcmanson]

If we were in the CAA this year our schedule would be something like this:

St Francis
VMI
@ Ball State
@ Delaware
Towson
@ JMU
New Hampshire
Villanova
@ Rhode Island
Richmond
@ William & Mary

That gives us 4 must win games to make the playoffs - St Francis, VMI, Towson, @ Rhode Island.
And 7 other games which we need at least 3 wins.

I could see us going 7-4 with that schedule - losing to Delaware, JMU, Villanova, and W&M. Which would put us squarely on the bubble for an at-large playoff bid. It wouldn't be easy to do, but it's definitely attainable.

[jcmanson]

Also, look at our home schedule:
St Francis
VMI
Towson
New Hampshire
Villanova
Richmond

wow, that would be sweet

[jenkins]

TTL... I see your point and don't disagree I just felt like you weren't quite giving enough credit to the state of the program. Surely we wouldn't move in and dominate. But I think we could go 7-4 7-5 or somethign like that, we would lighten our non-conference load and put some scrubs in there.

[ToTheLeft]

TTL... I see your point and don't disagree I just felt like you weren't quite giving enough credit to the state of the program. Surely we wouldn't move in and dominate. But I think we could go 7-4 7-5 or somethign like that, we would lighten our non-conference load and put some scrubs in there.

We already have a light non-conference load.

And I don't think we could go 7-4 right away. 7-4 in the CAA makes the playoffs. Teams like Delaware struggle to get there. We'd need a couple years to get caught up. I think we'd go 5-6 or 6-5 for a couple years.

[SumItUp]

TTL... I see your point and don't disagree I just felt like you weren't quite giving enough credit to the state of the program. Surely we wouldn't move in and dominate. But I think we could go 7-4 7-5 or somethign like that, we would lighten our non-conference load and put some scrubs in there.

We already have a light non-conference load.

And I don't think we could go 7-4 right away. 7-4 in the CAA makes the playoffs. Teams like Delaware struggle to get there. We'd need a couple years to get caught up. I think we'd go 5-6 or 6-5 for a couple years.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. I think the teams from the last few years would have needed a couple years to turn the corner. If Liberty were to move to the CAA, we would immediately be a player that would compete for a championship. Bank it.