[Purple Haize]

Well gee willikers ED, you must not have read all the posts. It has much more to it than meeting the attendance benchmark. Although that is a component it is not the only one.

And while we are swapping Greatest Hits of The Scriptures:
I wonder if we will have people who are like the nation of Israel in the desert when they couldn't get to the "Promised Land" Ole Moses went away for awile and when he came back, the nation had said, let's do it our way and make this big cow thing of gold and worship that, after all, if God had really wanted us in the promised land we would already be there. If I remeber that sort of ticked the almight off.

[Eagle Ed]

Don't know where you are going with that -- but I'll stick with the Falwells. Good luck on your adventure there...

[SuperJon]

Only 2-3 of us? There are obviously more people than that. You claim we don't support the school because we don't like the idea of I-A. Most people who have said they don't want to go I-A are the ones that are there hours before the game tailgating. I went to 10 of the 11 games last year and plan on going to all 11 this year. JDub is going to those games as well. To say we don't support things is completely stupid. We're the ones going out and trying to get students to come to the games. We're the ones going out and telling people that they should come to our games instead of going to VT, UVA, etc. How much of your free time have you taken to promote the team(s) to people? How much of your free time have you spent traveling to away games so that when the players look into the stands they see a supporting face? To say we don't support the teams is an insult.

Also, your point seems to be "miracles can happen." Here's my rebuttal, and if it touches a nerve with people, I'm sorry.

Yes, God has done a ton of miracles for Jerry and all kinds of other people. It was a miracle when God allowed Jerry come back to life a few years back when he initially had heart problems. However, God chose not to send the same miracle this past May. While God has done some very miraculous things, there are even more times where God chooses not to do the miraculous thing. Cancer patients die everyday. Yes, Lance Armstrong got a miracle, but my great grandmother didn't. People living after having heart attacks are a miracle, just ask Prof. Rooskie. However, my grandpa didn't get that miracle, and neither did Skip Prosser earlier today, and that's a tragedy. Jesus raised people from the dead, and that is a miracle. However, He chose not to perform another miracle in saving himself from dying on the cross. Miracles happen. Miracles not happening is something that is much more common. Sometimes those miracles are great things. Sometimes those miracles not happening (um, Jesus anyone?) are even greater things.

[ATrain]

I believe LU will one day be in the FBS (I-A)
But right now, we're trying to have success at the FCS (I-AA) level...that is Rocco's and Barber's goals for the next couple of seasons. Winning/Success at the FCS level will bring in more fans...more fans means we can justify expansion and will make the attendance requirments for the FBS level...which means then we'll have the option of moving up. I doubt it'll happen by 2011 or 2012, but by 2015 maybe.

[JDUB]

that pretty much sums things up

[SuperJon]

Isn't that what we've been saying?

[paradox]

This is just getting weird now, at this stage.

There are always risks involved in life in order to have opportunities at gaining something. LU will eventually venture out and take that risk.

If and when we succeed, it doesn't need to be viewed as a miracle in the biblical sense, but rather, a bunch of evangelicals supporting a football team in the same way that catholics support ND and BC and mormans support BYU.

It's realistic, it's our goal, and many here believe that it will happen!

[SuperJon]

Dox, you make a good point. The argument (except for Ed and his miracles) comes in when we should do this.

[El Scorcho]

I think the thread has just about run it's course, but I'm not going to close it or anything. It's nice to see that people care enough about football at Liberty to spend this much effort talking and thinking about something that might happen.

Now, since you care so much, I expect all of you who took the time to type a response to this thread to come to at least one of our tailgates this season. It takes only slightly more effort and we'll feed you. You will have to put some pants on, though.

[Eagle Ed]

SJ says: "You claim we don't support the school because we don't like the idea of I-A. Most people who have said they don't want to go I-A are the ones that are there hours before the game tailgating. I went to 10 of the 11 games last year and plan on going to all 11 this year. JDub is going to those games as well. To say we don't support things is completely stupid. We're the ones going out and trying to get students to come to the games. We're the ones going out and telling people that they should come to our games instead of going to VT, UVA, etc. How much of your free time have you taken to promote the team(s) to people? How much of your free time have you spent traveling to away games so that when the players look into the stands they see a supporting face? To say we don't support the teams is an insult. "

Nope ... never said anything like that --- a swing and a miss --- You'd be surprised how much we are alike in what you're saying there...


SJ says: "Also, your point seems to be "miracles can happen." Here's my rebuttal, and if it touches a nerve with people, I'm sorry. "

Nope ... again you swung and missed. I said that since Dr. Falwell wanted Division 1-A football so much, nothing would surprise me (using God's hand on the Falwell family and LU in general as an example). All I've ever said is that I believe that we are moving that way, that I am glad, and that I wanted to discuss the possibilities ...


SJ says: "Yes, God has done a ton of miracles for Jerry and all kinds of other people. It was a miracle when God allowed Jerry come back to life a few years back when he initially had heart problems. However, God chose not to send the same miracle this past May. While God has done some very miraculous things, there are even more times where God chooses not to do the miraculous thing. Cancer patients die everyday. Yes, Lance Armstrong got a miracle, but my great grandmother didn't. People living after having heart attacks are a miracle, just ask Prof. Rooskie. However, my grandpa didn't get that miracle, and neither did Skip Prosser earlier today, and that's a tragedy. Jesus raised people from the dead, and that is a miracle. However, He chose not to perform another miracle in saving himself from dying on the cross. Miracles happen. Miracles not happening is something that is much more common. Sometimes those miracles are great things. Sometimes those miracles not happening (um, Jesus anyone?) are even greater things."

whoops ... strike three. Don't know where all you are trying to go with all of that.
I stand by my point:
It has been well documented that Dr. Falwell wants LU to be Division 1-A / The Williams family is offering an enlarged stadium when the time comes ... / that means, as soon as it is possible, LU will be Division 1-A in football / that means many new foes / that is fun to discuss / who knows when this will happen, 4 yrs.? 5 yrs.? 6 yrs.? 10 yrs? 15 yrs? / LU is unlike any college in the USA - and anything is possible (to the outside world, LU ever being 1-A is impossible) / God has obvious blessed (and yes, sometimes it has been miraculous) the Falwells and the school / and again, it is fun to discuss the future

[SuperJon]

Apparently if I missed your point, then so did Haize, and JDub. I'm thinking that because your point was argued against, and you had no logical rebuttal, you said we missed your point.

[Eagle Ed]

you're forgiven then



(come on, that's funny right there...)

[SuperJon]

That was so dumb it was nowhere near funny.

[Eagle Ed]

still, you're forgiven

[Eagle Ed]

I know you have passion .. and I like that.

My family, schoolmates, and friends were tailgating - usually alone - in the mid-90's ... down in the gravel lower parking lot (closer to david's Place than the football stadium) ... People (gray hairs mostly) would stare like we were crazy -- maybe we were.

I just hope you still have incredible passion and fire when we do go Division 1-A

[Sly Fox]

I'm finally doing the family thing all day and now I have a chance to sit down address the points made by Senor Morado:

1. Money. Not just a classic song by Pink Floyd. This can be broken down to several different levels:
A. Scholarships - As of right now our scholarship dollars are "paper" money. The Ath Dept is alloted a certain amount of "dollars" for each sport to dole out to its athletes. We do not exchange money. Which seguiys into........

The word you are looking for is segue ... but no arguments as of yet.

B. We are a private institution. The majority of the schools listed (Even the Thundering TURD) are public universities and colleges. Funding takes on a whole new 'ball game" when dealing with public and land grant institutions. Very few private schools, ND and Miami popping to mind as notable exceptions, Stanford doesnt count, have top tier football teams. Why? MONEY

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the majority of schools moving up are public institutions since there aren't a great number of booming private institutions with bigtime aspirations. Most already have made the move. We are a bit of a rarity in this regard. But privates have fared very nicely in recent years. Take a look at last year's final AP poll:

4. USC
16. BYU
17. Notre Dame
18. Wake Forest
20. Boston College
22. TCU

C. Budgets. Just to throw this out there: UK Basketball has over 1 million dollars set aside in their budget for recruiting, for BASKETBALL. The football number is higher. How successful have the Wildcats been?

Its an apples to oranges. No one is suggesting that we would be competing in the SEC. BYU and TCU would be more representative of what we anticipate doing eventually. The Horned Frogs have the highest football budget in the MWC with $12.1 annually. Boise State spends $4.5M. While these are big totals, they are not as crazy as you might think.

Does LU have the resources, and maybe a better question should be: In light of LU's mission would it be a proper use of those resources to field a team with that level of commitment. Remember that is just for recruiting, not travel, not salaries, not cutting a check to the University for scholarships, etc. If you believe the N and A LU athletics has lost somewhere between 4 and 7 million a year in the athletic department. How exactly is LU supposed to not only make up THAT shortfall, but than exceed it to that type of tune, for just one sport I might add?

Those are the primary reasons why we haven't made the move quite yet. Its a major challenge that will need to be overcome.

D. Alumni. I love A. (Invest the Rest) Williams. He has been a good FOP. BUT for LU to even begin to consider about thinking abou the possibility of MAYBE one day, start to dream about D1A, they will need about 35 donors his size.

You'd never know you work in sales these days with your free license in hyperbole.

E. Profitability. Take a look at just the schools who played in bowl games. Or if you want to be REAL thorough, take a look at schools in bowl games you think we could "compete" with. And if you want to be super duper pooper scooper thorough (like all of my students were) take a look at all the D1 football schools. How many made money?

Nobody is suggesting that going I-A would be a financial boon to the university. The goal of most I-A programs is to win and pay enough bills to cover their own costs and some of the non-revenues. Your ultimate goal is branding the university and creating an environment that appeals not only to potential students but fat-walleted alumni. For better or worse, many schools' academic perception by the public is based in large part by their athletic standing.

I love to use the illustration of the Purdue team with Drew Breese that went to the Rose Bowl. After all their expenses were taken out of their share of the money they netted approx 175 bucks. That would be $175.00. Not billion, no thousand, just hundreds. Re read C.

Leave my man Drew out of this discussion... particularly if you are going to add an 'e' to his surname. The revenues you are mentioning were strictly from the bowl guarantee money. The university scored millions more in merchandising and the number of applicants to the university shot up as well. Financially it was a overwhelming success based on the overall net income.

2. Conferences. THIS JUST IN: LU can play ND anytime we would like, agreeing of course that ND would like to play us. So if you are using THAT as an argument to go 1A, you can see that Jerry's dream is already a reality.

ND doesn't schedule I-AAs. Of course it is highly unlikely they would schedule us in South Bend if we were I-A either. But there would be a remote possibility of facing them in a bowl game that will never exist as long as we are FCS.

While several schools were thrown out as possibilities, who says they are interested in moving? Wouldn't you think joining a "new" conference with LU as a charter member would be a step down to schools playing in Conference USA, MAC or trying to get into the Big East. There is no magic want that will persuade the other 1AA teams on the list to make the jump. In fact, I am positive that several have no desire to do so.

The conference issue would be a prerequisite to making the move under nearly every scenario imaginable right now. The most likely scenario would have a number of top tier I-AA schools in our region making the move together to form a new league. The administrators at a number of the likely candidates have publicly mentioned that they have given the idea some thought but don't feel it is right for them at this time. If they were to collectively make move it could be done in a fashion that would keep them from breaking the bank by keeping travel costs down for non-revenue sports.

Why would ECU leave C-USA? Perhaps if they were rebuffed by the Big East once again and had a viable option to lower their ridiculous travel budgets in C-USA. Marshall, Temple et al might have their own reasons.

3. Location. Yes Huntington and Lynchvegas are roughly the same size (from the waist up I assume) but that is not a rational argument. What else is there in Wva? You have the Mountaineers and......................................hog tossing at Uncle Billy's every Thursday. Marshall has a HUGE base of support (Even a MOVIE for crying out loud) So to have another D1 football school at the opposite end of the state makes sense. We are right between UVA and VT. THAT is where the draw is. Huntington did not have that. People who lived in Huntington BLED the THundering Turd. How many Lynchburgians do the same for The Flamers?

I agree that comparisons to Huntington aren't that significant. But considering the Commonwealth's lack of professional franchises I believe there is plenty of room for a lower priced option to the ACC boys that have priced the average fan out of the market. Again I remind you that we wouldn't be competing with UVa or Tech under the proposed guidelines for a move up.

4. Eligibility.
Our attendance must maintain roughly the same number of people that are here for the homecoming game, over a several year period. I will not jot down the numbers, go to NCAA.org and looke em up yourself. Suffice it to say that roughly 1/3 of the population of Lynchburg would have to come to our home games every time. Consistently.

First off, the NCAA hasn't enforced the attendance rule up to this point and I doubt they would start anytime soon. But for the record ...

Football Bowl Subdivision teams have to meet minimum attendance requirements (average 15,000 people in actual or paid attendance per home game), which must be met once in a rolling two-year period.

NCAA.org

Our stadium would need a nice sized overhall to accomodate such a dramatic increase.

This will happen.

And don't start comparing LU to the Ivies or to Duke. They were grandfathered in. (For Pete's sake they played the ROSE BOWL at Duke!!)

I'm not sure where you are going with this. The Ivies are I-AA.

Parking. Enough said

We build a garage.

Financial Stability. While I have never doubted LU's ability to "massage" budgets, payroll or attendance figures, this will be a tough one for LU.

5. Miscellaneous. What type of revenue streams will we have? If our stadium only holds 40k, how can that possibly bring in enough money to sustain the program, let alone the department? Will it come from concessions? (Nope, not unless we re work our deal with Sodexho, which they may not be too happy about) Parking? Please. Souvenier/Liscensing? Best bet yet, if we can ever figure out what our logo(s) officially are.

I guess this falls into the theory that if you throw enough against a wall something might stick.

Just b/c Jerry Dremt it doesn't mean it is prudent. IMHO, that is not a sound reason to make this type of decision. Sure I will now be called a heretic and several will think I am just adding square footage to my Lake of Fire Townhome with a great view, but stop and think about it. Jerry had a LOT of ideas. Some great (LU) some not so great (Heritage USA take over).

I actually agree with your premise that Jerry's wish shouldn't be our only reasoning for making the move. But I believe many of the reasons why it was important to him remain valid beyond his passing. I was around for the Heritage USA takeover as you put it and the whole ordeal has been completely misconstrued over the years. But I'd rather not chase anymore rabbits in this epistle.

Well those are just a few minor things that IMHO we might awt to want to think about.

I agree that many of your points have validity. But any major move such as this has obstacles to overcome and potential pitfalls. But the potential for reward is so great that it deserves string consideration.

[flamesfilmguy]

The voice or Reason meets the Wet blanket of reality! is it bad that this thread has been the most entertainment i've had all day?

[LUconn]

man, that post looks like it was a lot of work.

[thesportscritic]

We need to be successful first in our own league I-AA or whatever they call it these days before we even consider making the jump. Eagle Ed you can pray all you want, but it takes resources like money and a whole lot of other things to happen in order to move up. The school has to do the practical things and meet qualifications and standards to make the jump to the I-A level.

[LUconn]

Eagle Ed you can pray all you want, but it takes resources like money and a whole lot of other things to happen in order to move up.

uhhh, have you ever been to a convo before (that's short for convocation)?

If we took you back in time to the 80s you comment might go a little something like this. "Jerry, you can pray all you want, but it takes resources like money and a whole lot of other things to heppen in order to finish the empty dorms on the hill."

[thesportscritic]

yes whats your point?

[thesportscritic]

my point is connie boy is that it takes more than just prayer to move up to D1-A. Miracles are great but it takes resources to make this kind of move.

[LUconn]

Your statement bascially said prayer isn't gonna be answered when it comes to getting money or fulfilling other requirments. Not only is that wrong and showing a complete lack of faith, an easy example showing how wrong that is, is the construction of the inside of the dorms on the hill.

[thesportscritic]

connie boy that is not what i said. my point is that prayers can be answered but it takes resources as well to make this jump.

[thesportscritic]

it takes one to move their feet and not just sit there and just pray that it happens. prayer and some action with your faith