[JDUB]

were not getting complacent, we want to move up. just not until were ready. we don't want to go too soon

[Eagle Ed]

And i would certainly agree with that!

[SuperJon]

Here's what I've been saying:

This conversation is absolutely stupid and not needed in 2007. We're nowhere near a place to even be seriously considering moving up. In five years, we MAY be in a place to move up. Until we're averaging 15,000 in the seats on a regular basis, there's no point in even discussing it. It just can't happen. We averaged just over 11K last year, so that number could rise to the required level in the next few years. However, 15K is just the bare minimum requirement. If we want to be a successful I-A program than we've got to do much better than that. If we could get to that point then the money would be of less concern b/c we'll have built some of that through success at the I-AA level. That absolutely has to happen first. I say we need to be good in I-AA first. The reason I say that is because that gets those 15,000 people in the stands, that gets those donations.

Ed, no one's saying Jerry's vision was stupid. No one's saying it can't be done. What we're saying is it's nowhere near time to be discussing this. Too many LU alums think that because it was Jerry's vision, we should do it no matter what, even before it's time, just because it was his vision. That's just dumb.

[El Scorcho]

I respectfully disagree, Scorcho. The Great Purple Sage is sounding like a voice of reason. Someone has to offer dissenting views occasionally to keep the board fair and balanced...especially in terms of the cost of dreaming big.

Occasionally? That's a riot.

[Eagle Ed]

cool ...
but here's the point.

Precisely because we are a school with God's hand on it ... and we are a school that has experienced miracles ... and we are a school that is loved by the Williams, LaHayes, etc. ... and because Jerry Falwell believed in it ---

precisely because of that

we can be enthusiastic about our future...

(And honestly ... nothing against the Radfords and VMIs of the world -- but our future is much brighter than that)

All I wanted to do is talk about possible scenerios --- scenerios that certainly CAN happen before we know it. In fact, scenerios that are more "probable" than "possible" ... (no Division I-AA school in the WHOLE state can realistically have the discussions that we can have about 7-10 years from now).

That's fun discussion.

[SuperJon]

JMU can.

[Eagle Ed]

then maybe ... just maybe JMU will see US at the top (Division 1-A).

WE will be there in a few short years -- I'd welcome them IF they make it too.

[SuperJon]

See, you saw "a few short years." To me, that's 5 years.


We shouldn't even discuss this AT ALL for 5-7 years.

[paradox]

Actually, JMU is also another small-market college situation with no real potential for success as a 1-A. LU, on the other hand, has the potential to build a national fanbase because of its unique evangelical affiliation, and with that, our prospects of future success in 1-A can be percieved as promising.

We can actually have this conversation anytime between now and when the move is actually made because it's fun and it's realistic, if you're an LU fan.

A little exposure can go a long way. Give a unique evangelical institution like LU a little national exposure in a minor bowl game and watch it grow. Before ya know it, you're mentioned with the likes of Boise State and Rutgers. One distinction would be LU's potential for a national fanbase. The question is how big can this thing get for us once we start getting noticed on the national scene?

[SuperJon]

The Flutie Effect is a myth.

[Eagle Ed]

Hmmmm.... I wouldn't want to call out anyone for being an idiot because that wouldn't be polite ... and I especially wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of someone who posts all the time, as if they speak for everyone on every subject -- and who HAS to be right and get the last word in all the time. Just seems wrong and ungentlemanly to point those flaws out so I guess I won't ....

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the NAME of this thread is:
"Is it against the rules here to dream? 2011, 2012?"

Hmmmmm..... Let's see ... 2011 is 4 years away.
2012 is five years away.
Duhhh. Maybe someone flunked math.

Seems to me that a board nazi should read that and understand maybe they aren't right about everything all the time .... and that maybe some LU fans/alumni just want to have a fun discussion and some optimistic dialogue (about things that actually can and will happen) without someone nipping and yipping like a little spoiled pup all the time.

Nothing personal if the shoe doesn't fit of course. I'm just saying...

[paradox]

The Flutie effect is a reality that actually happened once. There is a very large BC-Catholic fanbase in the Northeastern and Mid-Atlantic states that traces its origins to the very moment of Doug Flutie's miraculous win against Miami.

[SuperJon]

Hmmmm.... I wouldn't want to call out anyone for being an idiot because that wouldn't be polite ... and I especially wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of someone who posts all the time, as if they speak for everyone on every subject -- and who HAS to be right and get the last word in all the time. Just seems wrong and ungentlemanly to point those flaws out so I guess I won't ....

First of all, I've never claimed to speak for anyone other than myself. While you're calling me out on failing math (which is the furthest thing from the truth I've ever heard), I'll ask if you passed English because it obviously says at the top of every page: "Intense. Loyal. Opinionated." I'm all three of these. I don't have to be right, and I've came back and said I was wrong everytime when I found out that I was actually wrong. However, this is a thread about an opinion, and this is something that I strongly feel and I will always defend things that I have strong opinions on.

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the NAME of this thread is:
"Is it against the rules here to dream? 2011, 2012?"

Hmmmmm..... Let's see ... 2011 is 4 years away.
2012 is five years away.
Duhhh. Maybe someone flunked math.

From what I have read by your statements, it seems that "2011, 2012" is when you believe we should be I-A. I'm saying we should even begin to talk about the possibilities of a move up until 2012, 2013.

Seems to me that a board nazi should read that and understand maybe they aren't right about everything all the time .... and that maybe some LU fans/alumni just want to have a fun discussion and some optimistic dialogue (about things that actually can and will happen) without someone nipping and yipping like a little spoiled pup all the time.

I never said I was right. All I've done was state my opinion and what I believe is right. I'm as optimistic as anyone about our programs. Ask anyone who knows me who the person promoting Liberty sports on campus the most is. To say I'm not optimistic about our future is completely idiotic (and yes, I have the balls to say it, but we'll get to that in a minute). Going I-A isn't about optimism. It's about money. It's about fan support. It's about travel costs, budgets, etc. Right now, the only programs that could compete in a I-A conference in sports other than football are women's basketball, and sports based around running. The other things on campus aren't there yet. You can't look just football. We're moving in the right direction. Basketball isn't ready to compete outside of the Big South, and neither is baseball. Neither soccer programs are. Wrestling's the closest of the others. We're getting there, we're not there yet.

Nothing personal if the shoe doesn't fit of course. I'm just saying...

Typical Liberty thing to do. You bash someone, then don't have the balls to say, "Yea, I'm talking about you, what are you going to do about it?" You come back with some crap about, "Oh, it's not personal if the shoe doesn't fit." Just man up and say you were trying to talk crap about me. I'd respect you a whole lot more if you actually came out and said it. Instead, you acted like a baby back b---- (name that movie) and tried to cover up what you really meant. How bout you grow a pair?

[SuperJon]

The Flutie effect is a reality that actually happened once. There is a very large BC-Catholic fanbase in the Northeastern and Mid-Atlantic states that traces its origins to the very moment of Doug Flutie's miraculous win against Miami.

Once, however, you're saying that it is going to happen in our case. By saying, "All we need is exposure in a bowl game, and then we'll get the fans." That's implying the Flutie Effect.

[JDUB]

Hmmmm.... I wouldn't want to call out anyone for being an idiot because that wouldn't be polite ... and I especially wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of someone who posts all the time, as if they speak for everyone on every subject -- and who HAS to be right and get the last word in all the time. Just seems wrong and ungentlemanly to point those flaws out so I guess I won't ....

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the NAME of this thread is:
"Is it against the rules here to dream? 2011, 2012?"

Hmmmmm..... Let's see ... 2011 is 4 years away.
2012 is five years away.
Duhhh. Maybe someone flunked math.

Seems to me that a board nazi should read that and understand maybe they aren't right about everything all the time .... and that maybe some LU fans/alumni just want to have a fun discussion and some optimistic dialogue (about things that actually can and will happen) without someone nipping and yipping like a little spoiled pup all the time.

Nothing personal if the shoe doesn't fit of course. I'm just saying...

whoa! don't get your panties in a wad buddy. some people were insinuating that we should move up in the next 2-3 years, or at least thats how they came across. he was pointing out that thats not reasonable.
everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but i don't think all the name calling and degrading is necessary.

[SuperJon]

The name calling is fine and dandy. I don't care. I'm not going to get offended by the names some guy on a message board calls me. I'm more offended he wouldn't actually admit to the name calling.

[TIMSCAR20]

Let me just point out that the other sports have nothing to do with football moving up. The reason? We can't go any higher in those other sports. There is no distinction between 1A and 1AA in any sport other than football. Also there are plenty of schools that have played in different conferences in football and their other sports, VA Tech being one of them before moving into the Big East full time. They were Atlantic 10 in hoops and Big East in football for a few years. My 2 cents.

[Purple Haize]

Pardon me for not posting for awhile today. It took forever to find a sack cloth to fit me and have you seen the price of Ashes today?? Geez, good thing Job didn't have to deal with these prices!! I blame Bush!
After that great fire and brimestone sermon, I was reaching for my wallet and waiting for the offering, with Just as I Am looping in my head like an iPod gone bezerker!!

I m not sure when God came into the equation, but to put a fine point on it, you can't really play "My God is bigger than your God" game with any success. By definition, if you say your God is limitless and undefineable you are de facto limiting and defining your God. (Take a minute, you'll get it. - Took me the better part of a semester!)
Sure if God wanted to miraculously rain money on LU like Pac Man Jones at SCORES it can absolutely happen. If people miraculously show up, a la Field of Dream, God can make that happen too. Heck, ask Evan, if God wants to saturate the earth with water, that is possible to. It is impossible to get away from that "all things are possible" phrase in the Bible. (Those pesky scriptures) But then you go down the road of "If all things are possible why didn't he let my mommy live? Is that REALLY the path we want to go down in a football forum? I think not.
No one is denying the possibility of the miraculous, unless you are a Hyles grad, but definately not if you were raised in the AG mindset. (IM me I have great AG pick up lines) No one is saying you can't dream. Ask SCAR he dreams of being skinny everyday and my wife dreams of me aging gracefully like George Clooney. Dreams are great things. So dream away, but I don't think it is fair to rebut logical arguments with the "God is my Ace in the whole" argument.

[Eagle Ed]

wow ... the shoe must have fit ...

Plus, that's pretty vulgar words for a LU student to use - I'd watch that ...

also, I'd be careful about downplaying God's hand when it comes to Dr. Falwell's heart burdens and Liberty University. A Christian alum can always refer to God's obvious blessings concerning Dr. Falwell and LU on this board. Always.

[SuperJon]

What God's done for Dr. Falwell is great. However, for as much as God's done, I bet there's even more that He hasn't.

[SuperJon]

Let me just point out that the other sports have nothing to do with football moving up. The reason? We can't go any higher in those other sports. There is no distinction between 1A and 1AA in any sport other than football. Also there are plenty of schools that have played in different conferences in football and their other sports, VA Tech being one of them before moving into the Big East full time. They were Atlantic 10 in hoops and Big East in football for a few years. My 2 cents.

Scar, the reason I say that is that, in general, most conferences with I-A football are better than the Big South. We want to compete to win in every sport. We're not quite there in most sports right now in the Big South, how can we in those other conferences.

Also, with your VaTech analogy, how many conferences are doing that these days? Most conferences want every school to participate in every sport in their conference (look at G-W coming into the Big South).

[Purple Haize]

I seriously doubt the shoe fit, if you ever saw my feet you would know that they are pretty hard to fit for a shoe. Or just ask the guy who does my orthodics!!
What vulgarity? Did I end a sentence with a preposition or something?
Also, only NON Christians criticize? What if a non Christian wanted to say they saw the hand of God in what has happened to LU? I mean Larry Flint did, does that make him a Christian? (If so, does that mean we get LU Discounts on his publications? )
Once again, no one is denying the miraculous. In fact I would say those that work or have worked for the university would say they are even more attuned to the miraculous nature of events at LU.
At this point I think those who are proponents of an early D1A jump only buttress those opposed by saying "We could if it was a miracle"(Cue Oral Roberts) Because if all the cogs fell into place it WOULD be a miracle.

[SuperJon]

Another thing, it says a lot for your argument that you had to resort to calling names and mud slinging. You ran out of things to back up your point, so you started attacking the opposition, not the opposition's point.

[Eagle Ed]

I can't help but wonder if LU is going to have some fans who are like Jonah ... they are going to sit and pout when "LU - the world's most exciting university" actually sustains 15K in attendance, when the stadium is enlarged, the school goes to Division 1-A in football, and when Barber (and Rocco) proves that he certainly expected it and is ready to lead LU at that level.

[Eagle Ed]

Seems to me that my discussion has been about: "LU - the world's most exciting university" - and can it actually build and sustain 15K in attendance - and when that happens the stadium is enlarged - and then the school goes to Division 1-A in football ...

To me that's it. Everything else is 2-3 guys who want to smash that kind of discussion.