[Sly Fox]

Uh, I beg to differ. But I fully appreciate your passion for the FCS game.

[SuperJon]

Beg to differ on what point? That I-AA can't have a good atmosphere, or that most (I didn't say all) have an inferiority complex?

[flamesfilmguy]

[Sly Fox]

Most of you guys just have I-A envy because that's all you know. You've never been around good I-AA football.

This is what I begged to differ about in your post. But again, this is all a matter of opinion.

[SuperJon]

Most people on here haven't been around I-AA except for following our team. People who have grown up in this area (VA, NC, SC, GA) have been around the SoCon. In NC, especially the western half, SoCon football is huge. I grew up an hour and a half from App St. I know guys that have played there, etc. We know how good I-AA football can be.

[Schfourteenteen]

Point is the IA has a greater cieling of an atmosphere and when people hear about making the jump they assume well be turning into a Michigan type atmosphere, when most of IA isnt like that at all.

Moving the MAC would be the worst option between travel and such. Better to be an Independent and hope a better conference picks us up, but we really need to be good here first. Not saying we need to get to a certain point in the playoffs, but we need to be good.

We may gain prospects by saying were IA, but well lose more by saying dont expect more than 6 wins a year.

I think playing Toledo will give us a clue as to where our team is really at, but before any of this moving up, we need a bigger place. Before we move up itd be nice to have permanent seats for at least 20, maybe 25k.

[SuperJon]

This is like a Current Student Coalition or something.


We've got the money promised for new seating. The thing is, how long before we need it? We averaged around 11,500 this past year. That includes one game in a monsoon that drew 8600 and the Western game that for some reason didn't draw very many. There's no point in new seating until we're averaging about 15,000. Would you rather play in a packed to over-capacity 12,000 stadium for a few years or a half-empty 25,000 seat stadium? I know which one I'd choose.

[Purple Haize]

WOW, So much to say.........
For starters, didn't we institute a drug testing policy? It now appears that Kool Aid is a gateway drug to more hard core substances.
I will put in brief order, and use commonly understood language (D1 1AA etc) to maybe throw a big cold wet blanket of reality on this D1A talk. (Or as the Kids say, "Don't mean to pee on your wheaties.....")

1. Money. Not just a classic song by Pink Floyd. This can be broken down to several different levels:
A. Scholarships - As of right now our scholarship dollars are "paper" money. The Ath Dept is alloted a certain amount of "dollars" for each sport to dole out to its athletes. We do not exchange money. Which seguiys into........
B. We are a private institution. The majority of the schools listed (Even the Thundering TURD) are public universities and colleges. Funding takes on a whole new 'ball game" when dealing with public and land grant institutions. Very few private schools, ND and Miami popping to mind as notable exceptions, Stanford doesnt count, have top tier football teams. Why? MONEY
C. Budgets. Just to throw this out there: UK Basketball has over 1 million dollars set aside in their budget for recruiting, for BASKETBALL. The football number is higher. How successful have the Wildcats been? Does LU have the resources, and maybe a better question should be: In light of LU's mission would it be a proper use of those resources to field a team with that level of commitment. Remember that is just for recruiting, not travel, not salaries, not cutting a check to the University for scholarships, etc. If you believe the N and A LU athletics has lost somewhere between 4 and 7 million a year in the athletic department. How exactly is LU supposed to not only make up THAT shortfall, but than exceed it to that type of tune, for just one sport I might add?
D. Alumni. I love A. (Invest the Rest) Williams. He has been a good FOP. BUT for LU to even begin to consider about thinking abou the possibility of MAYBE one day, start to dream about D1A, they will need about 35 donors his size.
E. Profitability. Take a look at just the schools who played in bowl games. Or if you want to be REAL thorough, take a look at schools in bowl games you think we could "compete" with. And if you want to be super duper pooper scooper thorough (like all of my students were) take a look at all the D1 football schools. How many made money? I love to use the illustration of the Purdue team with Drew Breese that went to the Rose Bowl. After all their expenses were taken out of their share of the money they netted approx 175 bucks. That would be $175.00. Not billion, no thousand, just hundreds. Re read C.

2. Conferences. THIS JUST IN: LU can play ND anytime we would like, agreeing of course that ND would like to play us. So if you are using THAT as an argument to go 1A, you can see that Jerry's dream is already a reality. While several schools were thrown out as possibilites, who says they are interested in moving? Wouldn't you think joining a "new" conference with LU as a charter member would be a step down to schools playing in Conference USA, MAC or trying to get into the Big East. There is no magic want that will persuade the other 1AA teams on the list to make the jump. In fact, I am positive that several have no desire to do so.

3. Location. Yes Huntington and Lynchvegas are roughly the same size (from the waist up I assume) but that is not a rational argument. What else is there in Wva? You have the Mountaineers and......................................hog tossing at Uncle Billy's every Thursday. Marshall has a HUGE base of support (Even a MOVIE for crying out loud) So to have another D1 football school at the opposite end of the state makes sense. We are right between UVA and VT. THAT is where the draw is. Huntington did not have that. People who lived in Huntington BLED the THundering Turd. How many Lynchburgians do the same for The Flamers?

4. Eligibility.
Our attendance must maintain roughly the same number of people that are here for the homecoming game, over a several year period. I will not jot down the numbers, go to NCAA.org and looke em up yourself. Suffice it to say that roughly 1/3 of the population of Lynchburg would have to come to our home games every time. Consistently.
Our stadium would need a nice sized overhall to accomodate such a dramatic increase. And don't start comparing LU to the Ivies or to Duke. They were grandfathered in. (For Pete's sake they played the ROSE BOWL at Duke!!)
Parking. Enough said
Financial Stability. While I have never doubted LU's ability to "massage" budgets, payroll or attendance figures, this will be a tough one for LU.

5. Miscellaneous. What type of revenue streams will we have? If our stadium only holds 40k, how can that possibly bring in enough money to sustain the program, let alone the department? Will it come from concessions? (Nope, not unless we re work our deal with Sodexho, which they may not be too happy about) Parking? Please. Souvenier/Liscensing? Best bet yet, if we can ever figure out what our logo(s) officially are.
Just b/c Jerry Dremt it doesn't mean it is prudent. IMHO, that is not a sound reason to make this type of decision. Sure I will now be called a heretic and several will think I am just adding square footage to my Lake of Fire Townhome with a great view, but stop and think about it. Jerry had a LOT of ideas. Some great (LU) some not so great (Heritage USA take over).

Well those are just a few minor things that IMHO we might awt to want to think about.

[SuperJon]

I love you.

[flamesfilmguy]

I am not worthy....

[El Scorcho]

Sure I will now be called a heretic and several will think I am just adding square footage to my Lake of Fire Townhome with a great view, but stop and think about it.

It's not that I think you're a heretic, or that I even disagree with you about many of the things you pointed out. My problem is that you seem to always take the negative view of everything involving LU. Listening to you, LU sounds like nothing but bad ideas and shady business. Maybe we just sit on different sides of the fence, but I find it terribly difficult to listen to what might even be valid points from you simply because of the negativity.

[Fumblerooskies]

I respectfully disagree, Scorcho. The Great Purple Sage is sounding like a voice of reason. Someone has to offer dissenting views occasionally to keep the board fair and balanced...especially in terms of the cost of dreaming big.

[LUconn]

but none of that has really been debated. We all know you need a ton of money, good attendance and people to play. That's a given. It's been mentioned before and I don't think anybody is advocating that we move on without those in place. And while it may seem silly to most to make such large assumptions that those could be in place, I think a lot of us don't really want to be the ones counting the school out. Because they're the ones who are continuously shown up. Now that you know the context that most of these arguments are taking place in, thats why it's always about "do we have to win 11 AA championships in a row first?". Having said all that, I pretty much know where Haize stands on all issues way before he says it on here.

[Sly Fox]

I hate it when I quickly check the board and see a post that will require a lengthy response from me and I don't have the time to respond. I have to run in a few minutes to go teach a class to budding broadcasters.

But suffice it to say I believe the Purple One is making a bit of an apples to oranges comparison of major BCS programs to the level for which we would be aspiring that I like to refer to as I-A Lite (the Non-BCS I-A landscape). No one is proposing we start trying to compete with the Gator, Trojans or Longhorns anytime soon in spending.

I'll try and squeeze back online this afternoon and discuss this further. But suffice it to say that if Jerry would've listened to all the naysayers with their reasons why America doesn't need another Christian college we wouldn't have what we have at Liberty right now. Its only through visionary efforts that greatness is ever achieved. Of course we aren't going to throw caution to the wind, but sometimes we need to take some risk in order to achieve something even greater. We may fall on our faces financially (see Florida A&M) but then again the possibility is out there that we just might be able to make it work.

[Purple Haize]

LUCONN - So let me get this straight, you say I make valid points, but because you THINK you know where I stand on all the issues and you FEEL I always take the negative view of all things LU I truly AM a false prophet and the author of all lies (OK that might be an overstatement! ). Granting either of those two assumptions are correct, which they are not, it still does not reach the core points which you yourself said you agree with. Therefore I am confused. Are you saying that you agree with the message but since you don't care for the messenger (based on feelings and misperceptions) you automatically invalidate the argument? Sophomoric to say the least.
Nowhere in my short missive did I say we needed to be a 1AA powerhouse before we move to 1A. Those two are seperate and non related issues.
Did I rail against stadium improvements? no. Did I say that LU should not have a quality team? no. Should we disband the athletic department? no. The only "negative" that I pointed out was that moving to 1A in football is a bad idea on several levels. Am I anti LU b/c we live so close to UVA and Tech? Am I anti LU because across the nation football programs loose money? Am I anti LU because the NCAA eligibility requirements are a tad lofty? Am I anti LU because Mrs Purple now dons the BLUE and orange of another school? If you can show me how ANY of that is anti LU THEN you may have a point. If not, perhaps this is NOT the summer of love and we ARE starting to pick on each other b/c we have no coaches to vent our frustrations!!! If so would this now mean we would get our own ESPN show FLAMEFANS.COM IS BURNING????

[Purple Haize]

I hate it when I quickly check the board and see a post that will require a lengthy response from me and I don't have the time to respond. I have to run in a few minutes to go teach a class to budding broadcasters.

But suffice it to say I believe the Purple One is making a bit of an apples to oranges comparison of major BCS programs to the level for which we would be aspiring that I like to refer to as I-A Lite (the Non-BCS I-A landscape). No one is proposing we start trying to compete with the Gator, Trojans or Longhorns anytime soon in spending.

I'll try and squeeze back online this afternoon and discuss this further. But suffice it to say that if Jerry would've listened to all the naysayers with their reasons why America doesn't need another Christian college we wouldn't have what we have at Liberty right now. Its only through visionary efforts that greatness is ever achieved. Of course we aren't going to throw caution to the wind, but sometimes we need to take some risk in order to achieve something even greater. We may fall on our faces financially (see Florida A&M) but then again the possibility is out there that we just might be able to make it work.

SLY To help you on your quest, and give you a cliff notes response. I did not compare us to Gator Nation. I said to look at the "lesser" bowl schools and schools across the spectrum. That is what I thought we should be compared to. IF you are one who feels ND would be better comparison (and i know you are not one my fine furry friend) then perhaps MEDIC can make a house call.
As for Falwell's dream and naysayers, that is sort of a red herring. I dreamt of playing for a Big Ten School. Worked hard, said my prayers, gave extra in the offering, felt it was God's will but alas, no such outcome. Was it the vision that was off? Or was it the fact that my athletic abilities were not what were needed to compete at that level? Still played in college and overseas, but never did play for that great team with a legendary coach. To me this is a similar type instance. But that is just me. I agree that if you don't dream big you can't accomplish anything big. But also, if you dream big don't be disappointed if you find you have over reached your grasp

[TIMSCAR20]

I hate it when I quickly check the board and see a post that will require a lengthy response from me and I don't have the time to respond. I have to run in a few minutes to go teach a class to budding broadcasters.

But suffice it to say I believe the Purple One is making a bit of an apples to oranges comparison of major BCS programs to the level for which we would be aspiring that I like to refer to as I-A Lite (the Non-BCS I-A landscape). No one is proposing we start trying to compete with the Gator, Trojans or Longhorns anytime soon in spending.

I'll try and squeeze back online this afternoon and discuss this further. But suffice it to say that if Jerry would've listened to all the naysayers with their reasons why America doesn't need another Christian college we wouldn't have what we have at Liberty right now. Its only through visionary efforts that greatness is ever achieved. Of course we aren't going to throw caution to the wind, but sometimes we need to take some risk in order to achieve something even greater. We may fall on our faces financially (see Florida A&M) but then again the possibility is out there that we just might be able to make it work.

SLY To help you on your quest, and give you a cliff notes response. I did not compare us to Gator Nation. I said to look at the "lesser" bowl schools and schools across the spectrum. That is what I thought we should be compared to. IF you are one who feels ND would be better comparison (and i know you are not one my fine furry friend) then perhaps MEDIC can make a house call.
As for Falwell's dream and naysayers, that is sort of a red herring. I dreamt of playing for a Big Ten School. Worked hard, said my prayers, gave extra in the offering, felt it was God's will but alas, no such outcome. Was it the vision that was off? Or was it the fact that my athletic abilities were not what were needed to compete at that level? Still played in college and overseas, but never did play for that great team with a legendary coach. To me this is a similar type instance. But that is just me. I agree that if you don't dream big you can't accomplish anything big. But also, if you dream big don't be disappointed if you find you have over reached your grasp

Purple, serious question. Do you think if you had the opportunity to play at, I don't know say, IU, that you would have been able to play? I didn't see you in your prime but I know you had to be pretty good before you got to your adult weight . I think what separates Liberty from most is in the IU analogy, Liberty is the player that no one thinks can play division 1 hoops let alone for a Big Ten powerhouse but they not only make the team but become All- Big Ten and captain of the team! Liberty had made the most of so many opportunities and that was on blind faith most of the time. Now I believe we actually have people in place with planning and foresight along with resources, drive determination and vision. That is why I believe it will be done sooner rather than later. Also the point about having to have the fan base is actually a requirement to move up so it can't be used as an arguement against moving up as some have done. Lastly, I believe LUconn is right in the sense that this arguement is over whether we need to be a 1AA powerhouse to move up and as you eliquently stated in your disertation (kidding), One has little to do with the other, which is my point and Luconn's point exactly. Good discussion though.

[paradox]

Dox, did you really say you wanted to go to the MAC? The MAC is the worst conference in the country not named the Sun Belt, and they're barely beating the Sun Belt.

Yea, it would be a huge step up from where we're at now. And it would give us the opportunity to play UVA, VA Tech, ect. Plus, we could get national exposure playing in a minor bowl game.

[Purple Haize]

SCAR - I got skillz playa!! Ok I HAD skillz playa!! Well I don't know WHERE you came up with IU but we will go with it. To turn the analogy around though, one could also say LU is like the kid on the squad who THINKS they are D1 material and acts like it and talks like it but doesn't produce like it. We all know those types. IMHO I think in this instance that is the case.
As for who is running things now? Nothing but confidence.
As for being a 1AA powerhouse? Not needed
As for the MAC? Step up for us step down for them. Isn't Akron in the MAC? How did we fare against them ?

[LUconn]

I think you misunderstood my post a little Haize. I was trying to say that most of your post has info that we all have already accepted so our discussions are usually based under the assumption once that is already accomplished. I did throw in that comment at the end to kind of echo Scorcho. You tend to be the "I like to pee in your Cheerios" kind of guy around here, so whenever ambitious topics come up, I already know what your opinion is.

[Purple Haize]

For starters its Wheaties, not Cheerios!!
Secondly, if you agree that my post was rehashing what is a given, I would say those are not things to look over lightly and would take years if not a decade or two to accomplish.
As for ambitious projects, I will admit to being against the IMAX, Water Park and D1A football. BUT I am totally for the Burgers for Believers chain with it's signature sandwich 'Big Jerry' or the .99 version "Jerry Jr". Some Godwin Fries, The Gomes Cone or the Billingsly Burger. Now THAT is gold

[paradox]

Dox, go watch App St on Black Saturday. Go to a Georgia Southern game. Watch Montana on tv.

Do all that then tell me I-AA isn't exciting.

I watched Ricky Santos throw 5 TD's in a game up a UNH, a year or two ago. Having said that, it would be far more intersting having a chance to win the MAC and take on a team like TCU in a bowl game, rather than having a big 1AA game scheduled against Montana or New Hamshire.

[paradox]

Most people on here haven't been around I-AA except for following our team. People who have grown up in this area (VA, NC, SC, GA) have been around the SoCon. In NC, especially the western half, SoCon football is huge. I grew up an hour and a half from App St. I know guys that have played there, etc. We know how good I-AA football can be.

You are talking about small town colleges in the southeast. Most likely 1AA is the best that they will ever do. LU is a unique institution with a unique vision. LU has goals of becoming both a national and world leader in the evangelical sense. With a much larger vision and far greater potential, why would LU settle for less? Getting complacent in 1AA is selling the thing terribly short of the goal as far as I'm concerned.

[Purple Haize]

Most people on here haven't been around I-AA except for following our team. People who have grown up in this area (VA, NC, SC, GA) have been around the SoCon. In NC, especially the western half, SoCon football is huge. I grew up an hour and a half from App St. I know guys that have played there, etc. We know how good I-AA football can be.

You are talking about small town colleges in the southeast. Most likely 1AA is the best that they will ever do. LU is a unique institution with a unique vision. LU has goals of becoming both a national and world leader in the evangelical sense. With a much larger vision and far greater potential, why would LU settle for less? Getting complacent in 1AA is selling the thing terribly short of the goal as far as I'm concerned.

Easy there DOX. Not sure what that has to do with football.

[Eagle Ed]

Some people on his board like to put God in a box they can contain ... (You may violently disagree with that assessment, but you ought to hear yourselves ... really).

Others realize that God has already worked so many miracles thru Dr. Falwell, that this particular dream doesn't surprise them at all --- and they realize that if Dr. Falwell felt this was so strongly for so many years --- well then, there's something to it.

This is a sports forum and not a theological forum, and I respect that. However, to take God, His love of Falwell, His love of the school, His miraculous abilites (if that is what it takes), and His love for using the "foolish to confound the wise" OUT of the equation is very offensive to many people.

The way I see it, if God wants Liberty University to leapfrog other area I-AA schools and have a big, national vision ---- then He certainly will make it happen.

I am prophet enough to know that when $$$ is needed, $$$ seems to come to Liberty (Williams, LaHaye, etc.) ...
that people such as Barber, Rocco, McKay, Toman, Green (not to mention Jerry Jr.) are big-time talents and certainly can lead our athletics to wherever they are going to go ...
that this whole Division 1-A football desire is no fly-by-night silly dream of Dr. Falwell's but rather a long-time, planned-out goal ...
and finally, regardless of naysayers, if God is allowing the right things to happen - it WILL happen.

I shake my head when folks come on and blast the direction Dr. Falwell and Jeff Barber clearly envision. They not only blast every positive-spin poster who speaks (and they go to great lengths to try to WIN very argument and bury anyone who disagrees with them deep in the ground) ... but they are absolutely (intentionally or not) blasting godly men - such as Jerry Jr., Dr. Falwell, Barber, Rocco, etc.

Why do I have to remind you that this is the SAME Liberty who just a few years ago played football on Treasure Island ...
who played basketball in a square aluminum box ...
and had students sitting in classes in stairwells (my preacher did that)?
Places like William & Mary and VMI stay the same forever --- but Liberty University has an outright amazing track record for growth and vision ... and with God's hand, for succeeding.

Guys .... this isn't Radford ... this isn't Coastal Carolina ... this isn't Campbell ... this is LIBERTY UNIVERSITY we are talking about. This is the school that confounds the world's wise! This is the school who produces (gasp) Christian LAWYERS for goodness sakes ("Impossible" the world snarls)... This is the school that comes up with the Ericsson Building for practically free (no way) ... This is the school who is kicking off an Engineering school AND a medical school ....

Some of you guys just need to relax and digest those points --- and be very careful how you talk to fellow believers. We went to Liberty for a reason. Falwell never let us down. God never let us down. People like that also believe that Jerry Jr. and Jonathan have a special annointing and that they will not let us down. If God doesn't will it - they will know. By the same token, if God does will it -- then we should respect that and assist any way that we can.

I don't think ANYONE suggested Division 1-A this year ... or next ... or the next ...
I also believe the understanding is that there are attendence standards to meet, and stadium seating requiremnts to meet -- and those take a little time.

I do think the discussion was about: Soon enough (5 years? 7 years? 10 years?) that Liberty University will be heading to Division 1-A in football, and that fact will most likely change what conference we are in. It is fun to discuss those possibilities.

There's your voice of reason ---- when it concerns Dr. Falwell / Liberty University ... I have found it is best to remember that God has blessed this school (and man) like no other .... ever.