[mlschubert]

Sorry if this is offtopic, but I was just looking at penalty stats and noticed that both Liberty and Charleston Southern are in the top 20 in the FCS in fewest yards lost to penalties (19th & 20th respectively); two disciplined teams. Amazingly, Gardner Webb moves backwards nearly 6 1/2 yards for every 10 yards forward!

[Keenan]

Sorry if this is offtopic, but I was just looking at penalty stats and noticed that both Liberty and Charleston Southern are in the top 20 in the FCS in fewest yards lost to penalties (19th & 20th respectively); two disciplined teams. Amazingly, Gardner Webb moves backwards nearly 6 1/2 yards for every 10 yards forward!

good find mls! Let's hope we don't make any stupid mistakes Saturday like the kickoff return for a TD that was called back for a personal foul last week. Hopefully the guys will realize the importance of this game and not lose their heads.

[SumItUp]

Great input Del Flame! Stick around and continue to share your thoughts.

[Stevev]

Yea Del Flame really knows his stuff and I agree with what he brings. I am also from Delaware (Unfortunately) and I know how good UD is and how they consistently produce quality teams, play tough schedules, recruit well, bring in quality transfers, are well funded, and have a huge local fan base. I think that we have an edge now in facilities though. Personally I use U of D as a benchmark for measuring Liberty's successes or lack of it. I think that we are slowly getting there but as he stated we are not there yet. But even a quality program like UD has bad losses (Albany back in 2006 for example) which may be comparible to us losing to Robert Morris and Stony Brook.

[kuntryboimike]

Sorry if this is offtopic, but I was just looking at penalty stats and noticed that both Liberty and Charleston Southern are in the top 20 in the FCS in fewest yards lost to penalties (19th & 20th respectively); two disciplined teams. Amazingly, Gardner Webb moves backwards nearly 6 1/2 yards for every 10 yards forward!

good find mls! Let's hope we don't make any stupid mistakes Saturday like the kickoff return for a TD that was called back for a personal foul last week. Hopefully the guys will realize the importance of this game and not lose their heads.

and hopefully no blocked punts or field goals...

[jenkins]

I firmly believe that it's just too difficult to get the kind of LB"s at this level that you need to make the 3-4 successful. I will say emphatically that if we didn't have #98 at NT right now our 3-4 would be completely worthless. He gets such a push and causes plays to go the other way all the time and these things never show up in teh stats. Our LB"s are solid and would be above average in the 4-3 but what happens is consistenly the opponenets OL gets on our LB's and we can't get off of them to make the plays. The Ravens and Steelers seem to be the only teams taht run the 3-4 consistenly and are rock solid. UVA had ait and always had that bend but dont break mentality, well our defense has that too but we break too much with poor decisions (see Kajuan Lee in every big pass coverage situation down the streatch). If you want to see a perfect live example of this watch the Redskins right now. THey are switching to the 3-4 right now and they just don't have all the parts necessary. They have rush LB's like Andre Carter that are just worthless in the 3-4. GUys like Lorenzo Alexander who is a career practice squad and special teams players has been elevated to the starter. The defense just gives up so much yardage that it makes it imperative that you make a big play to stop the opponenet at some point in the drive or you give up the points every time.

all i heard going into the season was that we had so much speed on D and that our secondary was better than ever. Well if this is true what has happened? The stats may say that we are the #11 scoring defense or whatever was quoted on teh hotline the other night, but i dont base my assessement of a D off of that. I think the best way of putting it is that if the game is on the line and our D has to make a stop, i have no confidence in them making a stop. If the talent level is greatly improved (which i do see more speed on the field, and more playmakers) then why do we get beat in key situations. So if the talent level is clearly higher than ever on defense then why are the results not improved, is the scheme not held accountable, or is it the coaching? I dunno, I just hope we figure it out because I have a bad feeling that we are goign to need a stop at some poitn and teh D is going to get burned again.

All of that being said, I dont agree with the Jay mills stuff at all. The transitive theory is a flawed one and if you try to base results off of that you are barking up the wrong tree. You can't just assume that Mills would do well and Rocco wouldn't. I think we are forgetting that we sucked and couldn't even win the Crapticular big south before Rocco. Sure facilities have improved and money is flowing, but the bottom line is the man is getting the job done. Also, I think Rocco represents teh university well and is a pretty good guy. I think wehn you factor in the whole package that Rocco brings we are still in a very good place right now. That being said, the rest of this year and next will be very crucial to the development of the program.

[kuntryboimike]

Off topic, but I predict a minimum of 2 NFL drafts from Liberty next year . Back on topic. I'm getting really anxious about this game! I keep thinking tomorrow is Saturday then I get really disappointed when I realize it's still Thursday...

[ToTheLeft]

Rocco as a person and Rocco as a recruiter are perfect for LU. Rocco as a guy who hired Brandon Streeter is perfect for LU. Rocco's defense isn't perfect. If he can make changes (cough cough 4-3 or 4-2-5 cough) and give us a better chance to play consistent defense, we'll be in very good shape.

And I am Colin Cowherd in the sense that I never played a down of college football, but I still am very opinionated (I'd like to think I'm not as wrong as him). My thoughts and ideas come from watching a ton of football and picking up on things from various sources. I enjoy banter back and forth, I told sch14 in a PM that this is the most fun I've had making everyone hate me.

Regardless, as I said before, I do like Rocco. The defensive issues are just mind boggling, and they overshadow everything else he's done in my mind. And I don't propose canning him, I just think changes need to be made. And they haven't been. We've been banging our heads against the same wall for a while now.

I agree with the assessments that, at the college level, particularly the FCS level, you really can't get the talent level needed to get a strong front 7. Ideally you'd want a huge tackle (check) and two big ends. Errrr, we have Terry Adams (Converted Running back, right?) and Pat Bannon (Converted LB). Robertson is the perfect size, but I think health and talent wise he's lacking, or he's just not fitting in with the team.

Our linebackers are pretty good for the 3-4, I don't know if they're all really athletic enough to truly fit in to pass coverage, but rarely is it the 5-10 yard passes that we get burnt on, so I think they're doing a good enough job. Bolt, Connolly, and ODonnell are the perfect size, the only problem is they're the same size as our "ends". So pass rushing is hard unless you send 5+, since they'll double Asa, put one on Adams, one on Bannon, and one on the linebacker who comes blitzing. We don't have a Vince Redd we can stand up and command a double or a chip block on outside.

I dunno, I have always preferred a 4 man front. and I think with Asa/Robertson/Schuster inside and Bannon/Adams/Odonnell/Connolly outside, we could have a good 4-3 defense. I know it won't happen since it's an entirely different scheme, but it's something we could do.

[flamesfan30]

we did run a 4-3 for the ball state game. that turned out pretty well.

[ToTheLeft]

we did run a 4-3 for the ball state game. that turned out pretty well.

I agree... though our pass coverage still had holes (like the almost game winner wide open that was dropped).

But we held the line really well and got a good push forward. Schuster and Chapman can and will collapse a pocket and ruin the middle of a run blocking scheme. Then we let our speed cover the corners and runs are very tough, and passing is made tougher due to a lack of time and fewer passing lanes and lines of sight.

[LUnpretty11]

I agree... though our pass coverage still had holes (like the almost game winner wide open that was dropped).

That's because a certain Freshman Safety doesn't understand that when a guy is running down the field, the one guy in the backfield with the ball can throw the ball forward in the air.

I know what you're saying, but also understand that he has not played well against the pass all season. He's been amazing when he's needed to come up and make a stop against the run, but awful against the air attack.

[Rooster Cogburn]

And I am Colin Cowherd in the sense that I never played a down of college football, but I still am very opinionated (I'd like to think I'm not as wrong as him). My thoughts and ideas come from watching a ton of football and picking up on things from various sources. I enjoy banter back and forth, I told sch14 in a PM that this is the most fun I've had making everyone hate me.

Cowherd in the sense that you have opinions like the rest of us, but you feel that yours are more important because you "watch more football". And, you tend to thrown in a ton of stuff that is kinda "out there" just for effect, or like you say to have fun "making everyone hate" you. You don't really think Tom Clark should be fired in the middle of the season, you just say that for effect.
I used to hate Cowherd but when I realized where he came from and what his purpose was I began to respect him. I still disagree with 90% of what he spews but It doesn't anger me any more because I say thats just Colin.
So, now were just fine. Have a nice day.

[Chris Lang]

Just want to chime in with a couple of things:

* The reason Rocco likes the 3-4, he has stated, is that it's difficult to recruit high level defensive linemen at the FCS level, thus making it difficult to have enough depth to run a 4-3 on a consistent basis.

* Two huge pass plays that are being mentioned -- the JMU touchdown and the Stony Brook long pass that set up the touchdown -- were the result of player error, not scheme. KaJuan Lee bit on the underneath route when he shouldn't have, leaving the receiver open on the smash at SBU. Kevin Fogg bit on the wrong route at James Madison, leaving Yancey wide open. And I think you can give the players a pass for the second half last week. They were so amped up for the start of the game that it's difficult to recapture that level of focus when you have a 35-7 halftime lead against a clearly inferior opponent.

[jcmanson]

I agree with you that we have had an embarrassing loss every year the past few years. It's a flaw of Rocco's. No doubt. He needs to get that corrected in order for us to take the next step with this program. There's no denying that and I wouldn't argue that with you.

Comparing those losses to what Mills does with CSU is apples and oranges. You can't compare the 2 as the athletic programs are SO different.

Last I checked we've won 8+ games in 3 straight (soon to be 4) seasons. Not exactly what I'd call "building up talent that is supposed to win, but doesn't."

DII's, VMI, Presby (almost everytime), G-W, random NEC team, random MEAC team, sure, 8 wins. If we base it off win totals alone we're ignoring the games actual games. If you want to just win 8 games a year but never be a contender, then fine. I want to look back and say "We took care of business, we didn't come out flat against an inferior team, and we're truly a national contender". I haven't been able to say that since Rocco has been here, because there's no consistency. 07 was the most consistent we've been, and that was only after we got punched in the mouth to start the season.

I agree with you. I want to be at that level as well. But I refuse to throw away all the other progress we've made after the last 5 years because we haven't taken that next step yet. Let's win out, get in the playoffs and we can say "we've taken the next step." Hopefully next year we can take another step - winning in the playoffs and/or not losing to an inferior team.

Trashing Rocco doesn't help us get to the next level.

Saying "Mills would have us in the top 10 by now" doesn't help us get to the next level.

[ToTheLeft]

I agree with you that we have had an embarrassing loss every year the past few years. It's a flaw of Rocco's. No doubt. He needs to get that corrected in order for us to take the next step with this program. There's no denying that and I wouldn't argue that with you.

Comparing those losses to what Mills does with CSU is apples and oranges. You can't compare the 2 as the athletic programs are SO different.

Last I checked we've won 8+ games in 3 straight (soon to be 4) seasons. Not exactly what I'd call "building up talent that is supposed to win, but doesn't."

DII's, VMI, Presby (almost everytime), G-W, random NEC team, random MEAC team, sure, 8 wins. If we base it off win totals alone we're ignoring the games actual games. If you want to just win 8 games a year but never be a contender, then fine. I want to look back and say "We took care of business, we didn't come out flat against an inferior team, and we're truly a national contender". I haven't been able to say that since Rocco has been here, because there's no consistency. 07 was the most consistent we've been, and that was only after we got punched in the mouth to start the season.

I agree with you. I want to be at that level as well. But I refuse to throw away all the other progress we've made after the last 5 years because we haven't taken that next step yet. Let's win out, get in the playoffs and we can say "we've taken the next step." Hopefully next year we can take another step - winning in the playoffs and/or not losing to an inferior team.

Trashing Rocco doesn't help us get to the next level.

Saying "Mills would have us in the top 10 by now" doesn't help us get to the next level.

Nothing I say impacts the team at all. I just give my opinion.

[jcmanson]

Ok, after reading about two more posts after my last quote, I realized this thread would be much better after utilizing the friend/foe feature. And it is.

[jcmanson]

Ok, after reading about two more posts after my last quote, I realized this thread would be much better after utilizing the friend/foe feature. And it is.

Lefty, just kidding man I didn't "foe you", but geese you make me want to pound my head against a brick wall.



But I still love you. No homo.

[Rooster Cogburn]

I know it's like a car wreck. You just can't look away!

[SuperJon]

Um, Terry Adams most definitely isn't a converted running back. He was a defensive end in high school and then we thought to put him at linebacker when he got here. It didn't work so after a year we moved him back to DE. He's never played a snap on offense.

[Schfourteenteen]

Confusion with Terry Williams, maybe?

On a side note, it is funny how many RB's make the transition to the other side.

[ToTheLeft]

Confusion with Terry Williams, maybe?

On a side note, it is funny how many RB's make the transition to the other side.

Might have been him. I dunno. I thought he was converted from another position. I did put a question mark tho.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Confusion with Terry Williams, maybe?

On a side note, it is funny how many RB's make the transition to the other side.

Might have been him. I dunno. I thought he was converted from another position. I did put a question mark tho.

Makes you wonder about the rest of your research?

[Sly Fox]

Wow, just catching up on the last 48 hours in posts and this thread was quite a ride over than span of time. Here a couple of notes:

1. Yes, Coach Karcher could recruit very well and did not prove to be a very good gameday coach. But my interaction with him indicated a guy who was a quality Christian man who really wanted to do what was best for the university. I was among those who were VERY frustrated with the contract extension the year before he was fired. But at the same time, I wish him nothing but the best these days even though his struggles have continued since leaving LU.

2. Coach Rocco is right man for the job and any assertion otherwise is not being very objective. Do we need to improve on the defensive side of the ball in general the past few years? Of course. But if it were just a matter of flipping a switch then every team would be awesome.

3. Coach Mills has done an absolutely amazing job at CSU. But under no circumstances would I trade Coach Rocco for him. Zero. Nada.

[Schfourteenteen]

* The reason Rocco likes the 3-4, he has stated, is that it's difficult to recruit high level defensive linemen at the FCS level, thus making it difficult to have enough depth to run a 4-3 on a consistent basis.

I heard this a while back and it makes sense to me. At the same point, doesn't running the 3-4 also mean the two DE's need to be bigger? (Readily acknowledging no knowledge on the subject here.) IMO finding DEs who can play two gap responsibility is just as difficult as finding quality DTs. I really don't know the ins and outs of personnel needs though.

[LCA&LU Mom]

News & Advance
By Chris Lang
Published: October 08, 2010

Charleston Southern QB cuts down miscues

Last season, Charleston Southern quarterback A.J. Toscano earned the respect of his opponents for his gritty play. Buccaneers coach spoke of Toscano’s intangibles, his leadership and his ability to will his team to victories.

This year, Toscano’s tangibles have caught up with his intangibles.

View full article from News & Advance here