Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541798
Maybe we couldn't do better. Do not kid yourself with what kind of job LU is for a potential head coach, especially this season.

I am a fan and supporter and loyal to LU no matter what because that is who I am, but also because I feel tied to the school being an Alumni. I understand your stance, just doesn't resonate with me.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541800
Here are some quotes on why Gill was kept on as a coach last season. These were from an article on ASOR and the quotes were Jerry talking to Sports line Radio.

http://www.aseaofred.com/gill-to-return ... h-in-2017/
“I want (Gill and McCaw) to have at least a year to work together, and to see where they can fix some problems that we’ve had,” Falwell told the Sportsline. “We had a lot of injuries this year. We played a lot of tough games in the first part of the season, and we had players, especially linemen, who never recovered from those injuries throughout the season. So, we are definitely sticking with Turner, but Ian McCaw is going to be the man I look to to advise on our coaching staff and on changes that may need to be made in the future. I trust him on that. I think he has the experience and the record that we can rely on. So, he will be my #1 adviser on that point.”
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541801
Jonathan Carone wrote: I disagree. To me, it's a step backwards into how Doc used to handle things. He was hands on in everything, micromanaged the athletic department, and pushed for big name hires.
I was referencing the welcomed change of not going for a splashy hire to appease the fan base. We could have gotten a name in here and afforded the price tag of buy outs along with the new salary. I am thrilled we are showing restraint and waiting on the right guy at the right time.

As far as we can tell, it will always lean to the micromanaging side of things from LU Presidents long into the future.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#541803
R i wrote:There is an ex girlfriend analogy somewhere about how Jerry had been burned by trusting AD too much in the past and being reluctant and guarded with new one.
He didn't make that hire though. That was an arranged marriage set up by his dad.

Ian's his hand picked athletic director. He had his choice and chose Ian.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#541804
R i wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: I disagree. To me, it's a step backwards into how Doc used to handle things. He was hands on in everything, micromanaged the athletic department, and pushed for big name hires.
I was referencing the welcomed change of not going for a splashy hire to appease the fan base. We could have gotten a name in here and afforded the price tag of buy outs along with the new salary. I am thrilled we are showing restraint and waiting on the right guy at the right time.
I don't think that's what we're doing. I think that's what Ian would like to do if he had his choice. Instead, I think we're waiting Gill out so we can throw a crap ton of money at a splashy name instead of making the change now and hiring a lesser-known guy.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541806
BuryYourDuke wrote:Truly unbelievable that expecting to beat dagum St Francis and A Coastal-less Big South with extra scholarships are now considered to be unrealistic expectations.

I can't follow you guys down this path.
I made the comment a few posts ago (sorry for the quantity today) that those losses are unexplainable.

Worst loss in recent program history, and Gill was HC for it. The unrealistic expectations I have referenced are the coaches some think we should attract, and where we should be as an overall program currently. Those losses are horrible, but do not paint a complete picture of where we are on program growth trajectory.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541807
Jonathan Carone wrote:
R i wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: I disagree. To me, it's a step backwards into how Doc used to handle things. He was hands on in everything, micromanaged the athletic department, and pushed for big name hires.
I was referencing the welcomed change of not going for a splashy hire to appease the fan base. We could have gotten a name in here and afforded the price tag of buy outs along with the new salary. I am thrilled we are showing restraint and waiting on the right guy at the right time.
I don't think that's what we're doing. I think that's what Ian would like to do if he had his choice. Instead, I think we're waiting Gill out so we can throw a crap ton of money at a splashy name instead of making the change now and hiring a lesser-known guy.
Fair prediction. We will see. I do think Ian will get a shot at a Football hire in the future.
User avatar
By FlamesHighontheTide
Registration Days Posts
#541811
I feel like this is beating a dead horse, BUT. . . our 75 scholarship players were not FBS scholarship players. We handed out more of our scholarships to walk-ons instead of holding them for the next year. Nevertheless, that was the decision made by the coaching staff. We did pick up some juco's who we did redshirt along with Seth Nerness as well. Both him and Solomon Ajayi will DEFINITELY contribute in a BIG way next year!! The recruiting done by Gill in this FBS transition year has been very good. Picking up three 3 star players and all 3 are on the o-line and d-line. Chibueze, Lewis and Cater will be play-makers for us and all 3 are hard workers!! Just so yall know, we have more commitments right now than Alabama. So for those of us who say we haven't done much in recruiting yet. . . just wait and see the goods that will be coming our way soon.

Losing to St. Francis was a MAJOR head-scratcher but it happened. No excuses on that one. KSU and Monmouth were much older teams and had good enough offenses to out score, just check the points they put up on us. Here is something nobody wants to talk about with KSU either, the triple-option attack is so dangerous in this era of college football because only a handful of teams run it and the ones that run it well aka KSU win lots of games. Plus, if defenses don't see the triple option a lot they are more prone to miss assignments. The fact that they were a start-up program doesn't really matter. They are in a recruiting hot-bed in the South. And GA. Southern and GA Tech guys would transfer to them due to the similarity in offense. ODU is a great example when they started their football program, they came out winning!

All this to say, I know we feel as a fan base that we are in for a humiliating FBS transition, but pump the brakes and enjoy the newness of the FBS era and the new talent that will come to the Mountain and help change the tide.
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By R i
Registration Days Posts
#541812
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:
All this to say, I know we feel as a fan base that we are in for a humiliating FBS transition, but pump the brakes and enjoy the newness of the FBS era and the new talent that will come to the Mountain and help change the tide.
Recruiting is the one area Gill has proven himself elite for Liberty's situation. That, in my opinion is super important during the transition.
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By CCWMichael
Posts
#541813
My opinions have been posted here many times.
Many of you have expressed my musings on why we have not shifted.
I sold myself after the final game it was Gill for now.
I will find it hard to cough up extra cash with the expectations I have in my brain, but I will do it.
I will want wins but am willing to lower my expectations to at least close games and giving up less than 500 yards per game.
I am trusting .... praying ... this was a team decision by all involved and there is a strategic reason that benefits Liberty. After all, that is how one keeps a job.
Backing Gill with what grace and forgiveness I have left and trusting our leadership has made the best choice for this moment in time.
I can't wait to see what talents we can pull in this year and which of those talents are game ready.
Signing day is when?
GO FLAMES!
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#541815
BigRed1 wrote:What’s the point of having an AD if you won’t let him do his job? The dream of Jerry Sr. that LU becomes the evangelical version of ND and BYU will never happen as long as Jr. is trying to run the athletic department.
In every institution, the chancellor/president has the final say on what happens in hiring/firing situations. I am confident that Jr. had some input as well as IM. I am also confident that there were reasons beyond W&L's that were taken into consideration. One of them has to be the early signing period this year. If we were to make a change now, (which I would have done BTW), there is a chance that we might have lost some recruits. With such a short period of time between now and then, it would have been difficult to keep them in the fold. If the signing period was in Feb as normal, we probably had time to shore up and keep most of the recruits/commits.
IMVVVHO, Jr. is not trying to have a figurehead AD only. First of all, with all due respect, he doesn't have the knowledge required to do it effectively at this level. Secondly, I do not believe IM would stay if he was just a figurehead/yes man. You don't come from a P5 school and go to LU to be a yes man.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#541817
R i wrote:In Ian's only football firing of his career, that I can find, the coach was much worse and given a few years to correct it. Ian knows what he is doing, I trust that he is making the right play, and moving the program forward. I do not buy for one second that Jerry crossed his recommendation.

My guess is Ian put out feelers, and realized that the candidates we would attract were not ones he was comfortable with. We are in transition, low scholarships , and a building phase. Are there guys that qualify and would likely do a better job than TG, probably. Are any of those guys willing to put their career on the line for it ? Doubtful.

Lets not be unrealistic, we are starting to sound like Tennessee. Why is it so hard for this fan base to understand who we are and what our history is, and the long path we have to success. We are not one great hire away from legit perennial bowl appearances.

Lets temper our expectations, and realize that what Gill is doing for the program is moving it forward. The number of starters returning is very high. The QB is the best we have had in my time following, and he is a sophomore. The recruiting has been better than we have ever seen.

I will sum it up by saying, I am not a Turner Gill apologist, but I do believe we have outrageous expectations for where this program should be performing. Our buildings are impressive, but that is one of the several factors that lead to a successful program. We have the Liberty Way, we have TRUMP Jr (in public opinion), we have zero Prestige, we are in Lynchburg. Enjoy the ride, it is going to be a very long road to the success we want.
1. I wouldn't be so sure about that.
2. Absolutely not
3. The jury is still out on that. We won't know for a couple of years.
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By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#541818
R i wrote:The program is moving forward in one of the several factors of success. Talent. There is no one that follows the program closely that cannot see our overall talent has been improving. Results in terms of wins and losses is also a factor and I cannot defend St Francis and the likes.

Jerry not giving Ian the authority to make staff changes to save a couple hundred thousand dollars goes against every thing I can logically put together. More likely is Gill saying all of us or none of us. We have attributed lots of negative situations to Jerry because he is the leader, and many of you do not like him or his style. Lets not reach for something that makes zero sense just so we can blame Jerry this go around. I do not believe your sources that Ian is upset because he wanted to make staff changes and Jerry would not let him because of contracts.

Ian is not happy with the current state of the program, but again, that does not mean an upheaval immediately is the best move.
The ONLY place we have improved in the last 6 years is at QB. We are not getting better, our talent level is not improving. This just kind of lends support to the fact that keeping TG has more to do with off the field circumstances than on the field results.
User avatar
By flameshaw
Registration Days Posts
#541819
R i wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: I disagree. To me, it's a step backwards into how Doc used to handle things. He was hands on in everything, micromanaged the athletic department, and pushed for big name hires.
I was referencing the welcomed change of not going for a splashy hire to appease the fan base. We could have gotten a name in here and afforded the price tag of buy outs along with the new salary. I am thrilled we are showing restraint and waiting on the right guy at the right time.

As far as we can tell, it will always lean to the micromanaging side of things from LU Presidents long into the future.
1. Or FORCED to make big name hires. Remember back in the days of Sam R, we didn't have any money and some things were dictated to Jerry Sr. That is a fact.
2. We weren't in a position of not getting the right guy, we could have gotten the right guy with NO PROBLEM.
Last edited by flameshaw on November 28th, 2017, 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By raven22a
#541838
FlamesHighontheTide wrote:I feel like this is beating a dead horse, BUT. . . our 75 scholarship players were not FBS scholarship players. We handed out more of our scholarships to walk-ons instead of holding them for the next year. Nevertheless, that was the decision made by the coaching staff. We did pick up some juco's who we did redshirt along with Seth Nerness as well. Both him and Solomon Ajayi will DEFINITELY contribute in a BIG way next year!! The recruiting done by Gill in this FBS transition year has been very good. Picking up three 3 star players and all 3 are on the o-line and d-line. Chibueze, Lewis and Cater will be play-makers for us and all 3 are hard workers!! Just so yall know, we have more commitments right now than Alabama. So for those of us who say we haven't done much in recruiting yet. . . just wait and see the goods that will be coming our way soon.

Losing to St. Francis was a MAJOR head-scratcher but it happened. No excuses on that one. KSU and Monmouth were much older teams and had good enough offenses to out score, just check the points they put up on us. Here is something nobody wants to talk about with KSU either, the triple-option attack is so dangerous in this era of college football because only a handful of teams run it and the ones that run it well aka KSU win lots of games. Plus, if defenses don't see the triple option a lot they are more prone to miss assignments. The fact that they were a start-up program doesn't really matter. They are in a recruiting hot-bed in the South. And GA. Southern and GA Tech guys would transfer to them due to the similarity in offense. ODU is a great example when they started their football program, they came out winning!

All this to say, I know we feel as a fan base that we are in for a humiliating FBS transition, but pump the brakes and enjoy the newness of the FBS era and the new talent that will come to the Mountain and help change the tide.
This is the good description and attitude of the way a fanbase should be. Being from the Great Republic of Tennessee and somewhat in the know of certain things taking place at UT, as far as football recruits. I can tell you that the fan base does have a lot to do with recruiting. I know of at least 2 big time recruits that De-committed from UT mostly due to the fan base putting doubts in their young minds of something different from what they felt when they committed. Recruitment is a dog eat dog world, very taxing on these young kids. Each college/university has everything better than the other or rival college/university of interest, according to the individual recruiter and some of these recruiters with less morals will tell these kids anything. Believe me, even at the FCS level teams will have people/GA's researching whats going on with a perspective university through these types of forums. When they start seeing a ripple of displeasure in the water, that will quickly be turned into a tidal wave from a recruiter to a recruit. Of course for the recruiter it makes them look better and quite frankly it's their job to get a kid to De-commit and join their program.

Just because a kid commits, the recruiting process doesn't stop. I know Lewis is being sought after hard by several P5 schools and it's only going to get worse as the early signing date approaches. Not to worry he is completely locked down for Liberty. He said that he loves the coaching staff at Liberty and that is what mostly sold him on Liberty University but at the same time, that same coaching staff told him to never pick a coach, pick the school because coaches can be gone overnight. A lot of credit goes to an HC that mandates honest recruiting like that!

I guess my whole point is, be careful of going over board with claims of protesting the football program or even giving up on the program all together if things doesn't change quick enough. Because recruits will run to a more welcoming situation. No one wants to ever lose but at the FBS level if a coaching staff isn't competitive, things will fix itself. It's all revenue driven and if you don't win revenue will be down and if the revenue is down the coaches will be gone. Simple as that. You Liberty Fans really don't know what you have up in Lynchburg. IMO and several others, it is a volcano waiting to erupt with nothing but greatness and national notoriety at the FBS level.
By rtb72
Registration Days Posts
#541840
I agree...this thread is spent. The fact is there is nothing to show the program is moving forward. Yes...we have more talent, and what have we done with it? I just saw on Recruiting Thread where we were in the running for a recruit who committed to Monmouth. As I said...recruits don't want to commit to programs that are not showing progress (or at least a glimpse of future progress). As for expectations to high...I disagree. I can stomach losing to better programs, but realistic expectations is simply beating the teams you are suppose to beat and being competitive...and we have not. If anyone suggest expectations this year (or last) were unrealistic by simply wanting the team to win the games we should have (in FCS), then we need to seriously reconsider why we are going to FBS at all.

I will still go to games to spend time with friends and family who attend; and quite frankly...I don't think JFJr gives a flip what the fans think or whether they boycott. But it sure stinks watching the train wreck unfold and continue....
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