[Purple Haize]

In Ian's only football firing of his career, that I can find, the coach was much worse and given a few years to correct it. Ian knows what he is doing, I trust that he is making the right play, and moving the program forward. I do not buy for one second that Jerry crossed his recommendation.

My guess is Ian put out feelers, and realized that the candidates we would attract were not ones he was comfortable with. We are in transition, low scholarships , and a building phase. Are there guys that qualify and would likely do a better job than TG, probably. Are any of those guys willing to put their career on the line for it ? Doubtful.

Lets not be unrealistic, we are starting to sound like Tennessee. Why is it so hard for this fan base to understand who we are and what our history is, and the long path we have to success. We are not one great hire away from legit perennial bowl appearances.

Lets temper our expectations, and realize that what Gill is doing for the program is moving it forward. The number of starters returning is very high. The QB is the best we have had in my time following, and he is a sophomore. The recruiting has been better than we have ever seen.

I will sum it up by saying, I am not a Turner Gill apologist, but I do believe we have outrageous expectations for where this program should be performing. Our buildings are impressive, but that is one of the several factors that lead to a successful program. We have the Liberty Way, we have TRUMP Jr (in public opinion), we have zero Prestige, we are in Lynchburg. Enjoy the ride, it is going to be a very long road to the success we want.

I don’t think there is room on this Board for this type of well thought out posting.

[Jonathan Carone]

I would agree our expectations as a fan base are way too high. It’s the result of a young and excited fan base who ultimately isn’t terribly intelligent when it comes to how athletics work. It’s also the result of a visionary with a gigantic vision and people buying into that vision and think we deserve it or have earned it because it was said by a great leader they followed.

I also agree that the type of coach we can attract right now is significantly lower than what our fan base expects. In that sense, we are very similar to Tennessee.

That said, I whole heartedly disagree that the current staff is moving the program forward. We have regressed across the board over the last three years. The talent is still there but the results simply haven’t been. The results after a great quarterback and a lot of starters returning in 2015 give me little hope we won’t have the same results in a harder situation in 2018.

I also disagree that Jerry didn’t step in. I’ve been told by multiple people that the main reason for keeping the current staff was financial because of the contracts Jeff gave this staff after 2014. Jerry would be the one to make that call. Those same people have said Ian isn’t happy with where the program is nor is he happy there won’t be any staff changes at all for next year.

[Purple Haize]

I would agree our expectations as a fan base are way too high. It’s the result of a young and excited fan base who ultimately isn’t terribly intelligent when it comes to how athletics work. It’s also the result of a visionary with a gigantic vision and people buying into that vision and think we deserve it or have earned it because it was said by a great leader they followed.

I also agree that the type of coach we can attract right now is significantly lower than what our fan base expects. In that sense, we are very similar to Tennessee.

That said, I whole heartedly disagree that the current staff is moving the program forward. We have regressed across the board over the last three years. The talent is still there but the results simply haven’t been. The results after a great quarterback and a lot of starters returning in 2015 give me little hope we won’t have the same results in a harder situation in 2018.

I also disagree that Jerry didn’t step in. I’ve been told by multiple people that the main reason for keeping the current staff was financial because of the contracts Jeff gave this staff after 2014. Jerry would be the one to make that call. Those same people have said Ian isn’t happy with where the program is nor is he happy there won’t be any staff changes at all for next year.

Yeah, I don’t doubt Jr’s hand in the decision. Unless there is a personnel change on the field , new recruits or the return of injured players, the fact there is no change on the Sidelines doesn’t sew seeds of hope for fixing what was glaringly broken

[R i]

The program is moving forward in one of the several factors of success. Talent. There is no one that follows the program closely that cannot see our overall talent has been improving. Results in terms of wins and losses is also a factor and I cannot defend St Francis and the likes.

Jerry not giving Ian the authority to make staff changes to save a couple hundred thousand dollars goes against every thing I can logically put together. More likely is Gill saying all of us or none of us. We have attributed lots of negative situations to Jerry because he is the leader, and many of you do not like him or his style. Lets not reach for something that makes zero sense just so we can blame Jerry this go around. I do not believe your sources that Ian is upset because he wanted to make staff changes and Jerry would not let him because of contracts.

Ian is not happy with the current state of the program, but again, that does not mean an upheaval immediately is the best move.

[Jonathan Carone]

This isn’t about a couple hundred thousand dollars. With two years left on the contracts, it’s likely a couple million dollars. That’s why Jeff has to get some blame as well.

And it wasn’t Jerry that made the decision about no staff changes. That was Gill. He believes he has the right staff in place currently.

[jbock13]

If true, I won't be renewing my season tickets next year. I won't waste my time with the same foolishness that has become readily apparent over the last 3 years. Disgraceful. Or as Jerry Jr's friend would say: Sad! Low energy!

[R i]

@Jbock, it is this short sighted mindset that exposes our fan base's immaturity. I realize you are young and are making a point with your 60$, but on a macro level, this is not how successful programs with loyal fan bases are built.

@Jonathan , Your quote from earlier made it sound like staff changes were not happening because of money. That Ian wanted to make staff changes but Jerry stepped in and said no because of the money. Gill wanting to keep his staff is completely different and does not vilify Jerry quite like your previous post.

@ASOR readers - Giving up on this program because of a 6-5 season with a couple bad losses with no coaching changes is not how we help build this program as a fan base.

[Jonathan Carone]

Jonathan , Your quote from earlier made it sound like staff changes were not happening because of money. That Ian wanted to make staff changes but Jerry stepped in and said no because of the money. Gill wanting to keep his staff is completely different and does not vilify Jerry quite like your previous post.

Sorry about that. Let me clarify:

The decision to not change head coaches was likely a decision by Jerry based largely in part due to the amount of money it would cost to make the change. The current staff - head coach and assistants - were given very generous contracts after 2014 and it would likely cost millions to make that change.

The decision to keep the current assistant coaches in place with no staff changes was the choice of Coach Gill. He believes the current staff is the right group of coaches we need to have the success that we want to have.

[R i]

Here is a super optimistic/realistic view of how this decision could have been made, and it is logical and all of Jonathan's sources were right in what they are telling him.

Jerry : " We have a ton of guys under contract, and we are already paying two major sports coaches that are long gone because of dumb contracts. I do not want to continually pay for coaches to be fired"

Ian : " Jerry we are not headed in the right direction and this is a big year for us, let me conduct a search and see what is out there and we will do a cost analysis.

Jerry: " Ok, let me know what you find, and how much it will cost us to upgrade and buy out"

Ian: " I have a few guys, they are definitely upgrades, but they are not worth the money. I believe the candidate pool will open up a ton next season for us, especially if Gill keeps the talent pool full like he has proven he can. We should probably make a change defensively for our fan base and their intrigue and faith in our program"

Jerry: "Fine by me"

Ian: "Gill isn't budging on changing staff. Looks like we will ride this one out"

Jerry: "Have a good Thanksgiving"

[olldflame]

I think RI probably nailed it on Gill refusing to make a change in either of the coordinator positions as long as he is HC. He has consistently shown reluctance to replace his coaches, and has tended to hire from within when he did (Wagner).

My best guess is that Ian would have liked to make a change, but did not fight too hard to do it now due to a combination of the cost of the buyouts and the reality that we aren't likely to win a lot of games next year no matter who the coach is. I also give both IM and JR the benefit of the doubt as far as being reluctant to can Gill for the right reasons, that being the integrity and Godly example he brings to the table.

[olldflame]

For the record RI, I don't think we are paying Layer any more. I believe Toman has at least one more year.

[Purple Haize]

I think RI probably nailed it on Gill refusing to make a change in either of the coordinator positions as long as he is HC. He has consistently shown reluctance to replace his coaches, and has tended to hire from within when he did (Wagner).

My best guess is that Ian would have liked to make a change, but did not fight too hard to do it now due to a combination of the cost of the buyouts and the reality that we aren't likely to win a lot of games next year no matter who the coach is. I also give both IM and JR the benefit of the doubt as far as being reluctant to can Gill for the right reasons, that being the integrity and Godly example he brings to the table.

And IM would like to keep his job

[Jonathan Carone]

Here is a super optimistic/realistic view of how this decision could have been made, and it is logical and all of Jonathan's sources were right in what they are telling him.

Jerry : " We have a ton of guys under contract, and we are already paying two major sports coaches that are long gone because of dumb contracts. I do not want to continually pay for coaches to be fired"

Ian : " Jerry we are not headed in the right direction and this is a big year for us, let me conduct a search and see what is out there and we will do a cost analysis.

Jerry: " Ok, let me know what you find, and how much it will cost us to upgrade and buy out"

Ian: " I have a few guys, they are definitely upgrades, but they are not worth the money. I believe the candidate pool will open up a ton next season for us, especially if Gill keeps the talent pool full like he has proven he can. We should probably make a change defensively for our fan base and their intrigue and faith in our program"

Jerry: "Fine by me"

Ian: "Gill isn't budging on changing staff. Looks like we will ride this one out"

Jerry: "Have a good Thanksgiving"

I definitely think this is possible. However, here's what I would guess happened if we're playing out the conversations:

IM: We aren't heading in the right direction. I think we should make a change in the football program.

JJ: I understand. Because of the contracts Jeff gave this staff, the cost to make that change would be $___ million. Do you think it's worth that.

IM: Let me do some back channeling and see what our candidate pool is.

IM: After talking to my contacts, I think we could get a quality coach in here that could help build our program as we move into FBS football next year. There's strong interest from current FCS coaches and some really good FBS assistants. It would inject some life into the program and create excitement going into next ear.

JJ: I think if we're going to spend this much money on a buyout and new staff, we need to make a splash with a bigger name. Coach Gill represents our school well so let's ride this out until it won't be as costly and then we can try to attract a high profile coach without having to pay two staffs at once.

[Jonathan Carone]

@Jbock, it is this short sighted mindset that exposes our fan base's immaturity. I realize you are young and are making a point with your 60$, but on a macro level, this is not how successful programs with loyal fan bases are built.

I think it's less about the money and more about the empty seat. Jerry couldn't care less about the money. But empty sections of his new stadium would be embarrassing. So if people wanted to voice their displeasure, their best way to do that would be by not showing up.

If there was a new coach I would've strongly considered driving up for the ODU game. I might watch it on tv now.

[R i]

Showing displeasure by not showing up is not even on the Vols radar of tactics. That is how low it is to stoop, IMHO.

[R i]

I definitely think this is possible. However, here's what I would guess happened if we're playing out the conversations:

IM: We aren't heading in the right direction. I think we should make a change in the football program.

JJ: I understand. Because of the contracts Jeff gave this staff, the cost to make that change would be $___ million. Do you think it's worth that.

IM: Let me do some back channeling and see what our candidate pool is.

IM: After talking to my contacts, I think we could get a quality coach in here that could help build our program as we move into FBS football next year. There's strong interest from current FCS coaches and some really good FBS assistants. It would inject some life into the program and create excitement going into next ear.

JJ: I think if we're going to spend this much money on a buyout and new staff, we need to make a splash with a bigger name. Coach Gill represents our school well so let's ride this out until it won't be as costly and then we can try to attract a high profile coach without having to pay two staffs at once.

I can dig it. I feel like it is a step in the right direction of how to handle these monumental hires.

[R i]

ASOR (jon manson) just posted an interview with Ian.

http://www.aseaofred.com/mccaw-on-his-1 ... t-liberty/

He has a quote that deals directly with fans like Jbock and others that are showing displeasure by not attending.

As we take the big step into FBS football, it is critical that everyone in Flames Nation rally behind the program and demonstrate to the college football community that this is a program that will become successful at the highest level.

[Jonathan Carone]

My best guess is that Ian would have liked to make a change, but did not fight too hard to do it now due to a combination of the cost of the buyouts and the reality that we aren't likely to win a lot of games next year no matter who the coach is. I also give both IM and JR the benefit of the doubt as far as being reluctant to can Gill for the right reasons, that being the integrity and Godly example he brings to the table.

I think Jerry has the reluctancy because of the way Gill represents the school and their personal friendship. I understand that reluctancy but ultimately, that type of friendship (Jeff's friendship with Dale) is what got us stuck with Layer a year or two longer than we should've been.

As for Ian, I'll disagree with your hypothesis because even though we may not win a lot of games next year, Ian understands the momentum we need to have to survive losing those games. If you have a new coach and you lose those games, you still have the excitement of FBS and the newness of "let the coach settle in" type of thoughts. When Gill lost his first four games, we weren't burying him because he was new and we knew it'd take time. When you go into a season on the heels of three straight 6-5 seasons and you lose 8 games, there's no momentum. It's just more of the same but now on a bigger scale and by more points.

I'll take it one step further: with a move to FBS, there's usually an increase in ticket prices and booster club donation requirements. With a new head coach and the move to FBS, fans will understand that and buy in and give freely. If you were to raise those prices and requirements after perennial 6-5 years, fans wouldn't be as likely to buy or give. You're already seeing people say they aren't buying season tickets next year. Now imagine those tickets are 150% more with an extra $50 required Flames Club donation. You'll have even less people buying those tickets. A new coach would've solved all those issues.

We have the money if we wanted to spend it. A 4-8 season next year with this staff, after three straight 6-5 years, is an absolutely momentum killer.

[R i]

What if the momentum we have with FBS opponents coming into Lynchburg for the first time in school history, and games at UVA and others is enough momentum to get us through a tough 2018.

We were not forced to make a move, when a move did not make sense.

[Jonathan Carone]

Showing displeasure by not showing up is not even on the Vols radar of tactics. That is how low it is to stoop, IMHO.

That fanbase did an "Empty Neyland" push for a game in late October/early November before Butch left. The Vandy game had 20% less people in the stands than earlier in the season.

Fan bases routinely show their displeasure by not showing up.

[R i]

I stand corrected, Tennessee can stoop that low. Haha. It is costing them now.

[R i]

#InIanWeTrust

[Jonathan Carone]

I definitely think this is possible. However, here's what I would guess happened if we're playing out the conversations:

IM: We aren't heading in the right direction. I think we should make a change in the football program.

JJ: I understand. Because of the contracts Jeff gave this staff, the cost to make that change would be $___ million. Do you think it's worth that.

IM: Let me do some back channeling and see what our candidate pool is.

IM: After talking to my contacts, I think we could get a quality coach in here that could help build our program as we move into FBS football next year. There's strong interest from current FCS coaches and some really good FBS assistants. It would inject some life into the program and create excitement going into next ear.

JJ: I think if we're going to spend this much money on a buyout and new staff, we need to make a splash with a bigger name. Coach Gill represents our school well so let's ride this out until it won't be as costly and then we can try to attract a high profile coach without having to pay two staffs at once.

I can dig it. I feel like it is a step in the right direction of how to handle these monumental hires.

I disagree. To me, it's a step backwards into how Doc used to handle things. He was hands on in everything, micromanaged the athletic department, and pushed for big name hires.

We hired one of the best Athletic Directors in the country - as voted on by his peers. If you're willing to stick your neck out for him and go through all the blowback of hiring the "guy from Baylor" then let him do his job and support him with what he needs. If you believe he's the guy to usher us into the next phase of Liberty athletics, let him do it. If he believes we can have success with a new coach who maybe no one has ever heard of then trust him and let him make the hire. In Ian we trust, right?

[R i]

There is an ex girlfriend analogy somewhere about how Jerry had been burned by trusting AD too much in the past and being reluctant and guarded with new one.

[jbock13]

Sorry that I’m not an 0-12 “still love them no matter what” fanboy. To me it comes down to simple question: can we do better? If so, what can we do better?

Also, as has been said several times here, since when has LU cared about money?

I still love my University no matter what. I also believe that it is acceptable to protest complacent mediocrity while we proclaim to “train champions for Christ.”