[paradox]

I've only seen tape, but I've seen a lot of tape. Sam is a different type of runner, I agree. He just wasn't the best producing back in our system.

"Wasn't the best producing back in our system"

It's absurd to say that. Sam has as high of a yard per carry average as any running back in LU history, and he didn't have the luxary of playing against the early season D2 softies. In addition, and by your own admission, Sam was used in short yardage, which takes his yard per carry ratio down. So, if you look at his overall performance in college, he pretty much proved that he could do it all. Had he been our feature back, then the numbers say that he surpasses most of the records. Samkon averaged 6.5 per carry during his senior year, which ranks second only to Larry Worthington. So, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Gado would have been "the most production" yardage-wise and scoring-wise had he played. At least, that's what the data that we have tells us. So, he would have been "the most productive in our system" and brings more to the table overall.

Goodman and Barnes were very good. But how convienent to claim that neither can further their careers due to "career ending injuries." And then try to rationalize further upon discovery of Goodman prolonging his career in Canada.

Gado should have have had the most carries, followed by a combination of Goodman and Barnes. In addition, Barnes would have been one heck of a full-time return specialist and one of the two could have emerged as a skilled receiving option out of the backfield.

...

[Knucklehead]

[shukcb04]

If Dre Barnes was clearly the better back, then how is it possible that Gado, who replaced Barnes after his injury, actually outscored him career-wise. That's right, Samkon scored more TD's as a eight game starter than Dre Barnes did in his entire career.

If you look at their yards per carry, they're practically identical. So, Samkon could have and would have put up similiar yardage numbers had he started. He actually proved it when he filled in as starter during his senior year and gaines 900 yards at 6.5 per carry. However, when you look at their touchdowns per carry ratio, Gado has a huge edge over the starter Barnes. Barnes had three of the biggest seasons ever by an LU back yardage-wise, but he would only score about 4 TD's per season.....


Apparently some people have something against scoring touchdowns




Famous quote: "Chris Carter, all he does is scores touchdowns." -Buddy Ryan after reluctantly releasing Pro Bowl reciever Chris Carter, while under strong pressure to do so by upper management.


...

look at the games when Samkon did starts, he has about 25 yards per game less than Barnes. also, ever seen the ESPN fantasy football commercial with warrick dunn introducing mike alstot? that sums it up for me right there, just because you score more TDs (alstot), doesnt mean you dont do more work and are better (dunn). someone else also mentioned the tj ducket and dunn combo for atlanta. so are you trying to tell me that warrick dunn is worse than both mike alstot and most especially tj duckett?? what a joke.

give me the back who gets you in scoring position, not the back who gets put in to score once someone else does all the work.

[shukcb04]

Samkon averaged 6.5 per carry during his senior year, which ranks second only to Larry Worthington

That's simply false. Dre Barnes had a higher average before he got injured his senior year

[paradox]

Shuck:

You're missing something there. Gado's 6.5 per carry during his senior year when he started in the second half of the season surpasses the other two. Also, Sam put most of his numbers up against D1 competition, and later in the season.

All of the data from LU clearly favors Gado: TD's, yards per carry, wins, playing against the tougher competition. In addition, it was all confirmed by Sam's accomplishments in the NFL months later when he gained 562 yards and 7 touchdowns in just five starts before partially tearing his ACL.

...

[paradox]

Samkon averaged 6.5 per carry during his senior year, which ranks second only to Larry Worthington

That's simply false. Dre Barnes had a higher average before he got injured his senior year

I'm looking at Barnes' three full seasons not the two games he played in against D-2 competition before he went down his senior year

Is this a serious conversation

[shukcb04]

Samkon averaged 6.5 per carry during his senior year, which ranks second only to Larry Worthington

That's simply false. Dre Barnes had a higher average before he got injured his senior year

I'm looking at Barnes' three full seasons not the two games he played in against D-2 competition before he went down his senior year

Is this a serious conversation

you cant just pick and choose different segments of a person's career to make an argument, if you do that simply makes your entire argument fallacious.

[thepostman]

do you think dox that Sam's production here at LU had anything to do with that teams didn't know what kind of runner he was?? I am not taking anything away from him...but teams knew what to expect from Eugene and they knew more about Dre...Sam has done a heck of a job...but if Eugene had stay healthy and hadn't shattered his ankle there is no doubt in my mind that he would be makng more of an impact then Sam has made....

the fact you are so opinionated about this just proves you don't know much about football...Eugene was amazing...its a shame a dirty hit after he had made it out of bounds cost him so much

[paradox]

Shuck:


Barnes' and Gado's yards per carry were nearly identical over their careers. However, since Gado was used in short yardage and since he didn't get to play as much against the early season softies, his yard per carry ratio would have been much higher if he had been used in the exact same manner as Barnes.

What if Barnes has been used in short yardage, which was a weakness in his game. His yards per carry ratio would have suffered if he had been used in the red zone and in short yardage situations. So, Sam could do everything that Barnes could do and then some--based on the evidence.

Sam, in contrast to Barnes, could do it all. And do it all well. In fact, he went straight to the NFL after his cameo performance at LU.

...

...

[thepostman]

Eugene was better then the both of them...Sam and Dre were a lot closer talentwise...

[paradox]

Postman:

What exactly is a shattered ankle by the way???? Are we exaggerating an injury a little in order to maintain an illogical argument???

And Goodman is actually playing by the way...arena and Canada.


...

[El Scorcho]

you guys ahve lost your freaking mind. you do realize that the only reason gado even got any PT at all in college and the NFL is because of injury. he couldn't do a good enough job in practice to prove himself capable of getting Pt until the people ranked better than him got injured. he had to wait for others to ALLOW him to prove himself because he obviously hadn't done anything on his own to deserve a chance to prove himself. if he had done something to deserve a chance to prove himself then he would have gotten that chance somewhere along the line. but no, in college and the nfl he had to wait until he was dang near the last option to prove himself. basically, everyone ranked better than him went down and couldn't play and the coach goes to him and essentially says "well looks like I have to play you now."

KEN frackin' KARCHER.

That can explain just about everything about LU football when Gado was here. Nothing made sense. Nothing.

[shukcb04]

Shuck:


Barnes' and Gado's yards per carry were nearly identical over their careers. However, since Gado was used in short yardage and since he didn't get to play as much against the early season softies, his yard per carry ratio would have been much higher if he had been used in the exact same manner as Barnes.

What if Barnes has been used in short yardage, which was a weakness in his game. His yards per carry ratio would have suffered if he had been used in the red zone and in short yardage situations. So, Sam could do everything that Barnes could do and then some--based on the evidence.

Sam, in contrast to Barnes, could do it all. And do it all well. In fact, he went straight to the NFL after his cameo performance at LU.

...

...

so you are saying for an absolute fact that Gado's yards per carry would ahve been higher if used in the same exact manner. prove it to me, i'd like to know how you can prove something that never happened.

[thepostman]

Postman:

What exactly is a shattered ankle by the way???? Are we exaggerating an injury a little in order to maintain an illogical argument???

And Goodman is actually playing by the way...arena and Canada.


...

haha...glad you caught on the my exageration....

It was a dirty hit...and the fact that he has recovered and done very well in both arena and Canada just proves how talented his is/was....I still think he will make it to the NFL....and that right there would be amazing

thanks for the news on Goodman...it was unknown to me

[thepostman]

you guys ahve lost your freaking mind. you do realize that the only reason gado even got any PT at all in college and the NFL is because of injury. he couldn't do a good enough job in practice to prove himself capable of getting Pt until the people ranked better than him got injured. he had to wait for others to ALLOW him to prove himself because he obviously hadn't done anything on his own to deserve a chance to prove himself. if he had done something to deserve a chance to prove himself then he would have gotten that chance somewhere along the line. but no, in college and the nfl he had to wait until he was dang near the last option to prove himself. basically, everyone ranked better than him went down and couldn't play and the coach goes to him and essentially says "well looks like I have to play you now."

KEN frackin' KARCHER.

That can explain just about everything about LU football when Gado was here. Nothing made sense. Nothing.

The thing is I think he was good at evaluating talent...and i think he played the right guys...I just think he was terrible at making a gameplan that worked....terrible actually doesn't even begin to explain how bad his gameplaning was

[Knucklehead]

Eugene was better then the both of them...Sam and Dre were a lot closer talentwise...

Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thepostman]

Eugene was better then the both of them...Sam and Dre were a lot closer talentwise...

Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

haha...thanks...anybody with even some football knowledge can see that, I don't really understand why there is a disagreement on this

[TIMSCAR20]

Interesting conversation and for the record I am not knowledgable enough to form an accurate opinion but I have to point out some inaccurate reasoning being used. Sam's performance in the NFL does not mean he was head and shoulders above the other 2. In fact the stats show they were all very good and Liberty was fortunate to have such depth at that position. It is not like Dre and Eugene were slouches and sam was sitting on the bench shaking his head wondering why he wasn't in there. Those guys were getting 200 yard games. I do remember that. What a guy does after college had no bearing on what they did in college retrospectively. What I mean is, there are plenty of guys in the pros in all sports that didn't put up big numbers in college but they bring something special to the table that their high producing counterparts didn't and they make it to the next level. There are a million reasons why some guys make it and some don't and it is not all about college stats. Take Michigan St hoops in the early 90's. Shawn Respert was a 3 time All American and I believe National POY in at least 1 or 2 polls his senior year. 1st round draft pick and a complete wash out in the pros. Conversely his teammate Eric Snow had worse numbers than me in college and had a free throw miss streak so long that folks still talk about it in the Michigan Capital City of Lansing. However Snow has had a long lasting career in the NBA because he got better, his skill set and pass 1st mentality and his ability to create shots for other people and play solid defense made him successful. Is Snow better than Respert? Not many people think so but if you just use who made it to the pros as the criteria, it is not fair or accurate in my opinion. NC State has a couple of examples in Chris Corchianni and Rodney Monroe. Fire and Ice. Both guys were all americans and set many NCAA records and ACC Records in their 4 years at NC State in the late 80's but neither was a good pro. Chucky Brown was just another guy on that team and he played in the league for 8 or 9 years. Everyone can come up with examples like this if you look hard enough. My point is that it is unfair to Dre and Eugene to say that Gado was better than them at Liberty when they both produced well just because Gado caught a break and had some connections and then made the most of those opportunities.

[Knucklehead]

Anyway wasn't this thread about Rashad?

Question: Who is the #3 guy who just moved to #2 for the 1st 2 games, Broggin or someone else? I'd like to see a 3rd get some reps. just in case there are injuries.

[SuperJon]

Probably Lawrence. Cheek and Broggin are back there too.

[#10]

I'm numb, can't take no more. You all have good points. All I will say is that I'n so glad for Sams and Katies success after college. They are exactly the types that we want representing Liberty. The jury is still out on Rashad - for now - I cringe every time I see a mike in front of him.

[SuperJon]

Why?

[Knucklehead]

Eugene
Sam
Dre
Rashad
Zach
KK
Joe Montana

I'm Confused! Which one is this thread about?

[Rocketfan]

Eugene
Sam
Dre
Rashad
Zach
KK
Joe Montana

I'm Confused! Which one is this thread about?

KK - everytime i see that i think of Kyle Kallander......but i have a hard time figuring out who is/was worse for Liberty Athletics Karcher or Kallander.....now that is a debate.

[El Scorcho]

Yes, that is a debate. May as well have it here since this thread is so hopelessly lost.