[flameshaw]

We are pretty close to getting there, we have shown consistent improvement under Gill. But it is going to be a little tougher for us than some schools because we actually play a difficult OOC schedule that includes a solid FBS team every year.

[BJWilliams]

Jon, FFG, Postie, ATrain, manson and I as well as some of the...I guess you could call us "transitioning old hags" were part of the university during the latter Karcher years (including the 1-10 2005 season) and the Rocco years. We have seen the program at its worst and seen it slowly rise from the ashes of that season. While I am encouraged to see us take the step we took last year with the autobid and first ever playoff win, Im with those saying that while the paradigm has begun to shift, it has not finished doing so. We took a major step in the right direction getting our own win over Montana, but I think its going to take a couple more years (or a run akin to Coastal's a couple years ago) to really say we have taken the next step and that the paradigm is completely shifted.

[R i]

The Pessimists are all fairly seasoned posters on the board. Maybe they just love to bring up the past, because it lets everyone know how long they have been on the Band-Wagon. We should give out badges for folks that were here in the dark, Typical Liberty years. Just so they can identify themeselves.

With recruiting efforts (landing much higher rated kids ), scheduling efforts (Montana at home), number of fans in the stadium (setting attendance records and season ticket numbers), type of coaches we are attracting, (Brown, WR coach), its simple to see, We are moving forward at much too fast a pace to constantly be looking back.

[thepostman]

Of course we are moving forward, nobody is arguing that. That is all I ask for it does look like we have made progress even since DR has left.

[flamesfilmguy]

[flamesfilmguy]

I side firmly with SJ and FFG. We are nowhere CLOSE to being a CONSISTENT top 10 team

in fact, if you asked me for a one-word attribute for both Danny Rocco and HCTG teams it would be INCONSISTENT

you could probably apply that to hoops and baseball as well. Its almost a culture at LU. No idea why.

revisionist history is a wonderful thing but if Chima didn't get that hand up last year we would still be talking about that epic defensive collapse at the end of the "typical Liberty" game.

I'm not sold on Gill. sorry. I'm sure he's a great dude.

[flamesfilmguy]

The Pessimists are all fairly seasoned posters on the board. Maybe they just love to bring up the past, because it lets everyone know how long they have been on the Band-Wagon. We should give out badges for folks that were here in the dark, Typical Liberty years. Just so they can identify themeselves.

With recruiting efforts (landing much higher rated kids ), scheduling efforts (Montana at home), number of fans in the stadium (setting attendance records and season ticket numbers), type of coaches we are attracting, (Brown, WR coach), its simple to see, We are moving forward at much too fast a pace to constantly be looking back.

All gif humor aside I never said we weren't making progress... in fact i think i've said that several times. I don't love bringing up the past. I'd love to look back a decade from now and say these were the years we turned the corner and became a perennial power in FCS. I want that. I want this team to succeed. but I'm not completely sold yet. when/if we make the playoffs the next few years and continue to make progress and prove that this wasn't just a flash in the pan success. Then I will fill up my Koolaide cup and start chugging.

[SuperJon]

Medic hit on it when he said the inconsistencies are a part of Liberty culture.

Typical Liberty has never been a football only sentiment. It's part of all three major men's sports. More often than not, when put on a big stage, those three sports underachieve. To think it's only football related is to discount much of what makes being a fan of Liberty athletics so frustrating.

[R i]

I never said we weren't making progress...

and I never claimed you said that.

[R i]

inconsistencies are a part of Liberty culture.

In my opinion, it is work-shy to use this as an excuse in 2015, any time we lose a game to a decent opponent.

Its a trend worth pointing out for sure, but to bring it up on every single occasion the team doesnt perform well is lazy. Why even bring it up at this point, do you guys honestly believe there is curse, or a stigma, or do you just like reminding everyone how long youve been a fan ?

[SuperJon]

The bringing it up to prove how long I've been a fan thing is stupid. You can go ahead and drop that one.

You asked if I believed there was a stigma.

Yes.

Yes I do.

It may be changing, but for years, our men's athletes in the major three sports have been very entitled. They expected to do well because they were Liberty, not because they outworked everyone else. It's the Liberty Way for athletics.

[R i]

Feels like a Fan Superiority Complex sometimes. Like those that constantly talk about being burned or how poor our teams perform in the past its like you all are saying,

"You dont know what Ive been through with this team, I have been here through the thick and thin, You wouldnt understand because you just hopped on board with the recent success. "

If thats not the case at all, My B.

[SuperJon]

The only "thin" that I've been through is the last couple seasons in basketball. My first year being a fan of Liberty was Rocco's first year when we went 6-5. We've never been under .500 since I've paid attention so that's not the case at all.

Liberty is in a unique situation. At most schools, when programs aren't good and have no tradition, you have generally okay to crappy facilities. Then, when some success happens, you start getting better uniforms, more gear, and better facilities.

At Liberty, because we have an unending amount of money, we just started building new facilities because we could. There wasn't the grind it out at all costs mentality that so many of the successful programs at our level have.

We wanted success, so we built what the successful teams had and claimed we were going to be successful.

Our teams expected to be successful because they were told they would be successful. Then, after having a good game or two, they'd crash down in a game they should've won because they didn't approach every game with the same mentality.

That's what Typical Liberty means.

[R i]

First, that was very well said, you are my favorite poster by far.

Second, I understand and I just dont think it applies to this years football team after what they accomplished last year. We will have to see how it pans out. Thank you for the conversation today.

[thepostman]

I believe that was an e-hug.

So sweet.

[SuperJon]

I understand and I just dont think it applies to this years football team after what they accomplished last year. We will have to see how it pans out. Thank you for the conversation today.

I lean towards where you're going, I'm just more hesitant to go there and think it's going to take a little longer than you expect it to. We're trending up though.

[BJWilliams]

I think everybody is that way JOn, but really you have two maybe three groups within Flames Nation that I can tell:

On the one hand, you have the fans (particularly football) who went through the Karcher years and are skeptical even though we are showing increased success under Coach Gill and are just waiting for "the other shoe to drop". Within that group are the people who are hesitantly poking their head out into the light but aren't quite ready to bask in it because they wonder if the light will stick around (SJ and few others I think fall in this group). On the other hand you have the folks who are pushing onward and upward and put their behind in the past (wait no...put the past behind them).

[bluejacket]

Liberty is in a unique situation. At most schools, when programs aren't good and have no tradition, you have generally okay to crappy facilities. Then, when some success happens, you start getting better uniforms, more gear, and better facilities.

At Liberty, because we have an unending amount of money, we just started building new facilities because we could. There wasn't the grind it out at all costs mentality that so many of the successful programs at our level have.

We wanted success, so we built what the successful teams had and claimed we were going to be successful.

I think that you are conflating on field and off field issues. Maybe not.

Our teams expected to be successful because they were told they would be successful. Then, after having a good game or two, they'd crash down in a game they should've won because they didn't approach every game with the same mentality.

To some extent, I agree. In other ways, no.

What is ridiculous is jumping up and down and claiming a "paradigm shift" when we have started to beat a few quality teams, but not taken nearly a large step forward as some are claiming. The attitude on here before and during the game showed that many know that a "paradigm shift" has not taken place. The pregame predictions are telling. Before this game, almost everyone knew there was a real chance that the team could lose against Georgia State, even when mediocre FCS teams have demolished them in the past and they have not demonstrated significant improvement this season either. Yet somehow, some start claiming to see a "paradigm shift" in the program.

The true top 10 FCS teams would beat this Georgia State team by 15+.

[olldflame]

Liberty is in a unique situation. At most schools, when programs aren't good and have no tradition, you have generally okay to crappy facilities. Then, when some success happens, you start getting better uniforms, more gear, and better facilities.

At Liberty, because we have an unending amount of money, we just started building new facilities because we could. There wasn't the grind it out at all costs mentality that so many of the successful programs at our level have.

We wanted success, so we built what the successful teams had and claimed we were going to be successful.

I think that you are conflating on field and off field issues. Maybe not.

Our teams expected to be successful because they were told they would be successful. Then, after having a good game or two, they'd crash down in a game they should've won because they didn't approach every game with the same mentality.

To some extent, I agree. In other ways, no.

What is ridiculous is jumping up and down and claiming a "paradigm shift" when we have started to beat a few quality teams, but not taken nearly a large step forward as some are claiming. The attitude on here before and during the game showed that many know that a "paradigm shift" has not taken place. The pregame predictions are telling. Before this game, almost everyone knew there was a real chance that the team could lose against Georgia State, even when mediocre FCS teams have demolished them in the past and they have not demonstrated significant improvement this season either. Yet somehow, after the Montana and Georgia State games, some people start claiming to see a "paradigm shift" in the program.

The true top 10 FCS teams would beat this Georgia State team by 15+.

Where do I begin? It really looks like you just made all of that up, because you certainly didn´t check your facts. GA State has been¨demolished¨ by an FCS team one time since they moved to FBS. That was Chattanooga in early 2013. Far from mediocre, that Chattanooga team was 8-4, with one of the losses to Alabama and another by 2 to GA Southern. They have been at or near the top of the SoCon for years now. GA State has added multiple transfers from UAB among others, and they are improved. How much will be revealed as they enter the meat of their SBC schedule. I would be interested in knowing who you consider these ¨true¨top 10 FCS teams who would beat GA State by 2 TDs. JMU? Coastal?

I actually agree that the jury is still somewhat out as to whether we have made that ¨shift¨, but you really aren´t helping your case with misinformation and unsupportable statements.

[flamesfilmguy]

The only "thin" that I've been through is the last couple seasons in basketball. My first year being a fan of Liberty was Rocco's first year when we went 6-5. We've never been under .500 since I've paid attention so that's not the case at all.

Liberty is in a unique situation. At most schools, when programs aren't good and have no tradition, you have generally okay to crappy facilities. Then, when some success happens, you start getting better uniforms, more gear, and better facilities.

At Liberty, because we have an unending amount of money, we just started building new facilities because we could. There wasn't the grind it out at all costs mentality that so many of the successful programs at our level have.

We wanted success, so we built what the successful teams had and claimed we were going to be successful.

Our teams expected to be successful because they were told they would be successful. Then, after having a good game or two, they'd crash down in a game they should've won because they didn't approach every game with the same mentality.

That's what Typical Liberty means.

Thank you. Jon has always been better at expressing his views on here better than me. I don't quite have a way with words as he does haha. but I agree 100% with this.

[aredd33]

The only "thin" that I've been through is the last couple seasons in basketball. My first year being a fan of Liberty was Rocco's first year when we went 6-5. We've never been under .500 since I've paid attention so that's not the case at all.

Liberty is in a unique situation. At most schools, when programs aren't good and have no tradition, you have generally okay to crappy facilities. Then, when some success happens, you start getting better uniforms, more gear, and better facilities.

At Liberty, because we have an unending amount of money, we just started building new facilities because we could. There wasn't the grind it out at all costs mentality that so many of the successful programs at our level have.

We wanted success, so we built what the successful teams had and claimed we were going to be successful.

Our teams expected to be successful because they were told they would be successful. Then, after having a good game or two, they'd crash down in a game they should've won because they didn't approach every game with the same mentality.

That's what Typical Liberty means.

Easily one of the best things written on this board.

[bluejacket]

Where do I begin? It really looks like you just made all of that up, because you certainly didn´t check your facts. GA State has been¨demolished¨ by an FCS team one time since they moved to FBS. That was Chattanooga in early 2013. Far from mediocre, that Chattanooga team was 8-4, with one of the losses to Alabama and another by 2 to GA Southern. They have been at or near the top of the SoCon for years now.

Did I say anything about Georgia State's record vs. FCS as an FBS team? Nope. They've been demolished by plenty of FCS teams.

GA State has added multiple transfers from UAB among others, and they are improved. How much will be revealed as they enter the meat of their SBC schedule. I would be interested in knowing who you consider these ¨true¨top 10 FCS teams who would beat GA State by 2 TDs. JMU? Coastal?

Jacksonville State
Coastal Carolina
North Dakota State
Illinois State
JMU
Eastern Washington
South Dakota State
UNI
Youngstown State
Sam Houston State

[flameshaw]

At the risk of being accused of commenting on things that happened many years ago, the "Typical Liberty" deal began waaaay before the Rocco/Karcher era and nice facilities and having money, etc. As Jon said, it has reared it's ugly head in more sports than one. My personal definition of "typical Liberty" is the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, when it seems almost impossible to do so. I don't buy the entitlement thing at all, but that is not something that anyone can say with certainty, so I won't argue that, one way or the other. However there is way to much empirical evidence, where we lost to a vastly inferior team at a critical time. Or, being so close to winning a BIG game and coming up short due to a stupid play, bad call, dropped pass, strikeout, missed layup, etc.
I agree we are not to a place where we can apply the "paradigm shift" term. But we are making continuous improvement, that is impossible to deny. Hopefully we can reach the point soon, where the expectation is that we find a way to win the close/big games and totally eliminate the "wtf" games. I know it would help my blood pressure immensely.

[thepostman]

Guys stop the discussion. BJ settled it.

[SuperJon]

I think everybody is that way JOn, but really you have two maybe three groups within Flames Nation that I can tell:

On the one hand, you have the fans (particularly football) who went through the Karcher years and are skeptical even though we are showing increased success under Coach Gill and are just waiting for "the other shoe to drop". Within that group are the people who are hesitantly poking their head out into the light but aren't quite ready to bask in it because they wonder if the light will stick around (SJ and few others I think fall in this group). On the other hand you have the folks who are pushing onward and upward and put their behind in the past (wait no...put the past behind them).

I literally have to read your posts three times to understand what you're talking about.