[Rooster Cogburn]

A few quick comments since it's all I can stand around here.

1 - On the issue of the students leaving early. It is mostly a function of the makeup of the student body IMHO. Liberty has 13,000 students, 54% of which are female. That's 7020 women and 5,980 men. Most women are definitely more interested in the event than the game especially when it's cold and drizzly.

2 - Everyone is saying (including Nick Sigmon) that it mostly came down to lack of execution by the D. Now that may be him covering for his coaches, but there is some truth in it. Part of it may have been scheme too. My point is, I'm not sure another coaching staff fixes what happened last night, against ODU or several times under Rocco. Some genius on here please enlighten me why I am wrong.

3 - IMHO anyone calling for "changes" at this point is out of line.

4 - Take the time to meet these young men on this team. Talk to them. Listen to them. hear their stories. I guarantee this will change your perspective. These guys are hurting, and are way more important that how I may feel as a fan. I hurt for Des Rice, Josh Woodrum, Gabe Henderson, etc. who had games for the record books that will now be largely forgotten.

[TH Spangler]

All of this arm chair quarterbacking?? The way I see it, we played two teams ODU and Coastal with more depth than us. And thanks to our coaching staff along with a Herculean effort by the players we almost “stole” both games. The out come doesn't reflect badly on the players or the coaches. but the opposite.

I've spoken to a couple of people that knew Turner Gill before he came to Liberty. Jim Caldwell and a professor from University of Buffalo. Both said Turner is a solid guy with lots of character and integrity. Turner is a great catch; he’s a good fit here. His staff needs more time to recruit. Recruiting at Liberty will always take a special person. Turner’s the guy.

[Svandive]

That was a great post! My thoughts exactly as I drove all the way from Delaware and experienced yet again another 4th quarter meltdown at home against a quality opponent which made for a long and excruatating ride home. Right on about the timeline of how last year went and how I felt about the losses to Richmond and ODU and then yesterdays debacle really made me think about the direction of this program. Right now I am not feeling too good about next season as we are experiencing a loss of key players and not enough talent waiting in the wings to replace unless we get a sudden influx of transfers or freshmen. To judge a Coach's success I always thought that by your third year you should have things in place and ready and I thought that Coach Gill had a good (but not great) base on which to build on but it appears that we are not better off and maybe a tad lower than Rocco's first 2 seasons and Rocco had to clean up the mess left by Karcher. I am not advocating anyone be fired but I am a little concerned about the future of our football program and the culture around the athletic department at LU. I personally met Coach Gill at the Flames Club luncheon and he seems like a great guy. I hope that things work out for him in the end.

[jimflamesfan]

Why can't everyone see that sheduling creates a lot of these problems. Why did the students leave in the 3rd quarter? Maybe because they're used to home games against d2s and transitional fcs teams, and if we have a 19 point lead against them you can book it, so why get wet?

The other insane thing is playing 2 fbs teams a year. We haven't done that since the Karcher days when we needed the paydays. Back then it destroyed the moral of the program, when we'd go to Bowling Green and South Florida and UCF and be demoralized.

But now we did it this year, and we're set to do it again next year. Does anyone else think that playing FBS schools and losing because we run out of gas teaches us to run out of gas in the 4th quarter?

Plus, it puts unnecessary pressure on the team to have to win the Big South. 24 teams make the FCS playoffs. Coastal could've lost last night, and they'd still be in the playoff hunt. But us, we create a wacky schedule because we want to be "FBS ready".

If we really wanted to make the FCS playoffs, then our resources need to be geared towards a schedule that gives us more than one way to get there. Surely we could provide enough guarantee money to get 5 decent home games...or at least 4 and one d2.

[Rooster Cogburn]

All of this arm chair quarterbacking?? The way I see it, we played two teams ODU and Coastal with more depth than us. And thanks to our coaching staff along with a Herculean effort by the players we almost “stole” both games. The out come doesn't reflect badly on the players or the coaches. but the opposite.

I've spoken to a couple of people that knew Turner Gill before he came to Liberty. Jim Caldwell and a professor from University of Buffalo. Both said Turner is a solid guy with lots of character and integrity. Turner is a great catch; he’s a good fit here. His staff needs more time to recruit. Recruiting at Liberty will always take a special person. Turner’s the guy.

EXACTLY! I also look at it that we almost stole 2 games as big underdogs, and yet preople can't see the progress.

I think coach Gill is the perfect coach for LU and I hope he stays for a long time. I do hope we win more in the future and finally go to the playoffs, but the differences that are being made in these guys lives for God is key and unbelievable.

[jbock13]

Turner is the right coach spiritually. As far as actual coaching? Meh. But I'm certainly not giving up on him yet. Sometimes I wonder if we actually want to win. Can't we worship god AND win?

[Purple Haize]

All of this arm chair quarterbacking?? The way I see it, we played two teams ODU and Coastal with more depth than us. And thanks to our coaching staff along with a Herculean effort by the players we almost “stole” both games. The out come doesn't reflect badly on the players or the coaches. but the opposite.

I've spoken to a couple of people that knew Turner Gill before he came to Liberty. Jim Caldwell and a professor from University of Buffalo. Both said Turner is a solid guy with lots of character and integrity. Turner is a great catch; he’s a good fit here. His staff needs more time to recruit. Recruiting at Liberty will always take a special person. Turner’s the guy.

This is not new. We have been here for years. We are the National Moral Victory Champions. At what point do we become the team that DID instead of the team that ALMOST did. That is the frustration. It's walking around acting like we have accomplished something when we haven't done Jack diddly squat! That's what is damaging our teams. They are given stuff. They are not earning it.
As for Gill, I said it and I'm sticking with it. I think he is the guy to change that mentality. But I'm also going to be critical when it doesn't happen. Games like ODU and last night are games we need to start winning, the teams we play obviously don't have a problem winning them. I've given Gill a clean slate (I'm sure he is relieved) and try not to measure him with anything other than where we want to go. But for the love of all that is holy, quit saying we are FBS ready because it is painfully obvious we are not.

[Purple Haize]

All of this arm chair quarterbacking?? The way I see it, we played two teams ODU and Coastal with more depth than us. And thanks to our coaching staff along with a Herculean effort by the players we almost “stole” both games. The out come doesn't reflect badly on the players or the coaches. but the opposite.

I've spoken to a couple of people that knew Turner Gill before he came to Liberty. Jim Caldwell and a professor from University of Buffalo. Both said Turner is a solid guy with lots of character and integrity. Turner is a great catch; he’s a good fit here. His staff needs more time to recruit. Recruiting at Liberty will always take a special person. Turner’s the guy.

EXACTLY! I also look at it that we almost stole 2 games as big underdogs, and yet preople can't see the progress.

I think coach Gill is the perfect coach for LU and I hope he stays for a long time. I do hope we win more in the future and finally go to the playoffs, but the differences that are being made in these guys lives for God is key and unbelievable.

Differences were being made for God in the lives of the players under Karcher. It was no less unbelievable. But he is no longer here. So it's not THAT key.

[jimflamesfan]

I don't care about almost stealing games when we are big underdogs anymore. The Ball State win didn't help us make the FCS playoffs. I don't care about the prestige of playing at FBS schools. Until we prove we can win close games we should stop scheduling FBS teams. Surely we could have found 2 fcs teams to play on the road instead of Kent State and ODU. Western Carolina, Elon, Furman, Youngstown State, Lehigh, etc. Maybe we would have won those two games, and instead of being 3-4 we'd be 5-2 with a chance to win out and still make the fcs playoffs.

...All this being said, I'll probably go to the North Carolina game next year.

I'm still a Flamesfan, I'll still be cheering. No matter what!

[BJWilliams]

If we win out, I will be at least happy that we improved our record from year 1 to year 2 much like we did under Rocco. year 3 is where we saw I think the biggest improvement when we went from 8-3 and an underdog to 10-2 aNd the dog running the pack. year 3 and 4 are where we really get our questions answered because TG will have all of his own recruits by that point. One thing that some do not realize (cinciflame comes to mind) is that about half of these kids (and a few from last year) are Rocco players/recruits. some are adjusting well and showing improvement (woodrum Big Stack and des are examples) and some are not. For the record if you look at Rocco's last recruiting class, only Woodrum, Jones and I think O'Grady are still on the roster. all that said, next year is going to be the one that answers the question posed in the OP. Will the fans want to wait that long? the ones outside of here (and a select few on here)...I have my doubts.

[Purple Haize]

If we win out, I will be at least happy that we improved our record from year 1 to year 2 much like we did under Rocco. year 3 is where we saw I think the biggest improvement when we went from 8-3 and an underdog to 10-2 aNd the dog running the pack. year 3 and 4 are where we really get our questions answered because TG will have all of his own recruits by that point. One thing that some do not realize (cinciflame comes to mind) is that about half of these kids (and a few from last year) are Rocco players/recruits. some are adjusting well and showing improvement (woodrum Big Stack and des are examples) and some are not. For the record if you look at Rocco's last recruiting class, only Woodrum, Jones and I think O'Grady are still on the roster. all that said, next year is going to be the one that answers the question posed in the OP. Will the fans want to wait that long? the ones outside of here (and a select few on here)...I have my doubts.

[BJWilliams]

Based on an approximate look at the roster and based on extrapolating backwards to when they started, the earliest year we have to work with is the 09 signing class based on redshirts. the 09, 10 and 11 signing classes are all Rocco kids. gill came in just before the 2012 signing day, ergo still working with Rocco recruits.

[Purple Haize]

Based on an approximate look at the roster and based on extrapolating backwards to when they started, the earliest year we have to work with is the 09 signing class based on redshirts. the 09, 10 and 11 signing classes are all Rocco kids. gill came in just before the 2012 signing day, ergo still working with Rocco recruits.

But then you say that Woodrum Jones and OGrady are the only ones left from Rocco's last recruiting class.

[jack_sparrow81]

I don't care about almost stealing games when we are big underdogs anymore. The Ball State win didn't help us make the FCS playoffs. I don't care about the prestige of playing at FBS schools. Until we prove we can win close games we should stop scheduling FBS teams. Surely we could have found 2 fcs teams to play on the road instead of Kent State and ODU. Western Carolina, Elon, Furman, Youngstown State, Lehigh, etc. Maybe we would have won those two games, and instead of being 3-4 we'd be 5-2 with a chance to win out and still make the fcs playoffs.

...All this being said, I'll probably go to the North Carolina game next year.

I'm still a Flamesfan, I'll still be cheering. No matter what!

Have we ever played a Thursday night game? Wouldn't be bad idea against a team like Samford, that plays in a decent conference and shares our beliefs.

[SuperJon]

EXACTLY! I also look at it that we almost stole 2 games as big underdogs, and yet preople can't see the progress.

That's total BS. Coastal changed coaches the same year we did and were worse off their last year under Bennett than we were under Rocco. They leap frogged us and are in the top 5. We should be where they are or better given our resources.

When you fund like the big boys then expectations are like the big boys. This isn't a little ole sports ministry anymore.

[flameshaw]

EXACTLY! I also look at it that we almost stole 2 games as big underdogs, and yet preople can't see the progress.

That's total BS. Coastal changed coaches the same year we did and were worse off their last year under Bennett than we were under Rocco. They leap frogged us and are in the top 5. We should be where they are or better given our resources.

When you fund like the big boys then expectations are like the big boys. This isn't a little ole sports ministry anymore.

Exactly right Jon.

BTW Rooster, "almost" just means you lost, nothing more, nothing less.

Bottom line, we are no better than we were 20+ years ago, in fact, it is easy to prove we were better on the field back then.

[BJWilliams]

I don't care about almost stealing games when we are big underdogs anymore. The Ball State win didn't help us make the FCS playoffs. I don't care about the prestige of playing at FBS schools. Until we prove we can win close games we should stop scheduling FBS teams. Surely we could have found 2 fcs teams to play on the road instead of Kent State and ODU. Western Carolina, Elon, Furman, Youngstown State, Lehigh, etc. Maybe we would have won those two games, and instead of being 3-4 we'd be 5-2 with a chance to win out and still make the fcs playoffs.

...All this being said, I'll probably go to the North Carolina game next year.

I'm still a Flamesfan, I'll still be cheering. No matter what!

Have we ever played a Thursday night game? Wouldn't be bad idea against a team like Samford, that plays in a decent conference and shares our beliefs.

Played the first game under coach Rocco on a Thursday...it was a d2 yes but on a Thursday just the same

[forbidden]

I don't care about almost stealing games when we are big underdogs anymore. The Ball State win didn't help us make the FCS playoffs. I don't care about the prestige of playing at FBS schools. Until we prove we can win close games we should stop scheduling FBS teams. Surely we could have found 2 fcs teams to play on the road instead of Kent State and ODU. Western Carolina, Elon, Furman, Youngstown State, Lehigh, etc. Maybe we would have won those two games, and instead of being 3-4 we'd be 5-2 with a chance to win out and still make the fcs playoffs.

...All this being said, I'll probably go to the North Carolina game next year.

I'm still a Flamesfan, I'll still be cheering. No matter what!

Did you think maybe they couldn't find those teams to play. It amazes me how some think that the people who actually make the decisions are so bad that they can't find teams to play. You hv to think of what some hv been saying about LU as well, just because we want then doesn't mean they want us.

[thepostman]

Try could find road games without a problem. Not a lot of teams want to agree to play us out our place.

[BJWilliams]

Postie is right...and we have had that discussion quite a bit about getting home games against quality FCS teams so I won't repeat it.

[michaeleyou]

Number 4 FCS team in the country comes into our place undefeated and has to go to Double Overtime to get the win and once again all you whiners start. Some of you also talked about Kansas not giving Gill time to get things done in just two years...uhh, like how long he has been at Liberty.

All this negitive banner wears me out.

[flameshaw]

Number 4 FCS team in the country comes into our place undefeated and has to go to Double Overtime to get the win and once again all you whiners start. Some of you also talked about Kansas not giving Gill time to get things done in just two years...uhh, like how long he has been at Liberty.

All this negitive banner wears me out.

If you think CCU is the 4th best team in the country, I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma I would like to sell you. Check out the collective records of the teams they have beaten. They will go through the BSC like butter, lose to USC and get beaten by a good lower-ranked FCS team in the playoffs. It may not be the first round, because they will probably be ranked 2-3 by then because of losses by other teams. In their case, it did pay to play a weak schedule this year. They had no idea how weak it was going to be when they made it but.................. stuff happens.

BTW, it is "banter".

[michaeleyou]

Number 4 FCS team in the country comes into our place undefeated and has to go to Double Overtime to get the win and once again all you whiners start. Some of you also talked about Kansas not giving Gill time to get things done in just two years...uhh, like how long he has been at Liberty.

All this negitive banner wears me out.

If you think CCU is the 4th best team in the country, I have some beachfront property in Oklahoma I would like to sell you. Check out the collective records of the teams they have beaten. They will go through the BSC like butter, lose to USC and get beaten by a good lower-ranked FCS team in the playoffs. It may not be the first round, because they will probably be ranked 2-3 by then because of losses by other teams. In their case, it did pay to play a weak schedule this year. They had no idea how weak it was going to be when they made it but.................. stuff happens.

BTW, it is "banter".

So what, you think they aren't #4. Let's say it's more like #9 or 10. We aren't ranked at all. I stand by the rest of what I said...other than a misspelled banter.

[rogers3]

Number 4 FCS team in the country comes into our place undefeated and has to go to Double Overtime to get the win and once again all you whiners start. Some of you also talked about Kansas not giving Gill time to get things done in just two years...uhh, like how long he has been at Liberty.

All this negitive banter wears me out.

fify

Funny... All the folks on here whining about the students leaving, and then you turn around and want the coach fired. Sorry, but you folks are wacko. You remind me of the naysayers back in the Morgan Hout days. He was a no-name and he had several losing seasons, but after he began winning...well, you know what happened. I will continue supporting the coach and team and leave the immature banter for you guys to salivate on.

[jimflamesfan]

I don't believe that it's a matter of them not wanting us. Would it have been that hard to schedule two AWAY FCS games instead of FBS games when the administration was making the schedule?

I know it's hindsight. But what about for next year? Are we still scheduled to play both North Carolina and UVA on the road, or has that changed? Wouldn't it make sense to push one of those games back a year. It will be demoralizing.

Like I said, I don't care if we only have five home games if that's what it takes. We used to play FBS road games back in the 90s because we needed the paycheck. That's not an issue now. I think it's our pride that's the issue. We wanted to be seen as "FBS ready", and we think if we win one it will make a splash. And we wanted 7 home games.

But instead of beimg worried about splashes, we should be trying to put a schedule that prepares us for close games and provides a way to the playoffs if we don't win the conference.