[thepostman]

athletes as a whole don't care THAT much about the academic aspect. Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but most do not.

So with that in mind this whole debate is completely pointless

[thepostman]

Oh I agree. We have made strides, but yeah I agree. But that is what I have come to expect from cjsweat

[bradyfan]

Alabama is consistently ranked in the top 50 public universities in the nation. 31 USA Today Academic All-Americans in the last six years is FIRST in the nation. One of the top public law programs in the country. You sir are ignorant.

Florida, Vandy, and Missouri are members of the American Association of Universities, which is the cream of the crop.

I won't even jump into the B1G, because everyone is widely aware of how strong they are academically. The SEC gets picked on for numerous reasons, but again, the perception is largely ignorant, like you CJ.

Finally, the way you hold up VT academically is laughable. It's a good school, don't get me wrong. However, if you think it is somehow better than just about any SEC school, you, again, are ignorant.

I'll give you Vandy, Bama and Auburn. However, you have to understand that the exception isn't the rule. For the most part, the SEC and the B1G do not have great academic institutions. Both have a few but when compared to the ACC (which has Duke, Wake Forest, UVA, UNC, VT, GT, and Clemson) they don't match up.

Virginia Tech is not what they used to be academically. I have several friends who got in to UVA and wait-listed by Virginia Tech. Additionally, VT's business school, engineering school and agriculture program are at the top of the country.

These things are neither here or there though because my point was that good academics don't equal good football teams. Some schools have both good academics and football, some have neither, others have one over the other. My point is that the future of our football program won't depend on the progress of our med school, library or law school.

Additionally, how you perform in the FCS has nothing to do with how you perform in the FBS. You first have to consider when we started getting serious about our athletics (this started about 10 years ago.) 10 years ago isn't that long ago and we've had some measurable success since then. The other portion of the equation that no one on here understands, is that FBS recruits are different than FCS recruits. Most kids in FCS are transfers or recruits that just weren't good enough for FBS football. Only a few FCS players will ever play in the NFL, there are a couple of exceptions but it's not the norm. In the FBS, every player wants a shot at the NFL and they will look at which program has the best chance of getting them there. They look at things like television exposure, coaching staff, and NFL graduates. The majority of FBS recruits do not care about academics. As a matter of fact, many schools with really good academics have less football success.

[jbock13]

Another interesting point is TV markets. We aren't located in a big one, but we have television exposure (as long as espn3 keeps showing our games).

[bradyfan]

Another interesting point is TV markets. We aren't located in a big one, but we have television exposure (as long as espn3 keeps showing our games).

I think we have a deal with Raycom too.

[NotAJerry]

I agree with your overall point about us competing in FBS, but I need to correct you on some incorrect information that you have received somewhere.

Some of the schools you listed have excellent academics. Better than Virginia Tech's. I really don't understand why people perceive the SEC's academics the way they do. I guess because they are good at football and from the south? The large majority of SEC schools are excellent academic institutions, including Alabama. To my knowledge, no Big Ten school has poor academics including Penn State.

As far as the SEC goes, Vandy is a top 5 university in the nation. Alabama and Auburn both have excellent law programs and Huntsville is routinely rated as one of the most intelligent cities in the US. The SEC does catch some crap for schools like the 2 in Mississippi that are far less reputable than their top schools and for their much more lax standards for athletes than other top conferences.

The B1G nearly blew its stack when Nebraska lost AAU (American Association of Universities) status shortly after joining. That's an unwritten requirement for adding new schools at the moment and Nebraska is the only school in the B1G not meeting it. When looking at potential B1G expansion in the future, you can pretty much rule out anyone who doesn't have AAU status regardless of their sports status.

[Purple Haize]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

[NotAJerry]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

He's the same guy who said Jason Campbell and Robert Griffin III are run first QBs and that there are no arguments against the BCS getting #1 vs #2 right beyond the Auburn undefeated season.

[Purple Haize]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

Yeah I am far from a B1G fan, but you can't knock their academics...

UM Law < LU Law

[bradyfan]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

They do have some really great schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Michigan but for the majority of the conference? I'm not trying to knock conference's academics. I could really care less. The only point that I was bringing up is that most football schools could care less about their academics. I was bringing up that if recruits really cared about academics, the IVY league would be the best football conference in the country. The B1G, SEC, Pac10, Big 12 etc, all have great academic institutions. However, those conferences aren't what they are because of their academics and for the majority, they are football/basketball first schools.

[NotAJerry]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

They do have some really great schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Michigan but for the majority of the conference? I'm not trying to knock conference's academics. I could really care less. The only point that I was bringing up is that most football schools could care less about their academics. I was bringing up that if recruits really cared about academics, the IVY league would be the best football conference in the country. The B1G, SEC, Pac10, Big 12 etc, all have great academic institutions. However, those conferences aren't what they are because of their academics and for the majority, they are football/basketball first schools.

There are 61 members of the AAU, the elite university status in America. 11 of those 61 are B1G schools. There were 62 until last spring when Nebraska was voted out by a very slight margin. To sit there and stupidly, ignorantly, and stubbornly continue to say they aren't academic first universities is just insane. The B1G schools are land grant, research universities. They are the best of the best as a collection, on par with the Ivy league schools.

[bradyfan]

How can you disparage the B1G academics? They have some very prestigious schools. Now adding the last few may water it down but to say they are weak academically is ignorant.

They do have some really great schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Michigan but for the majority of the conference? I'm not trying to knock conference's academics. I could really care less. The only point that I was bringing up is that most football schools could care less about their academics. I was bringing up that if recruits really cared about academics, the IVY league would be the best football conference in the country. The B1G, SEC, Pac10, Big 12 etc, all have great academic institutions. However, those conferences aren't what they are because of their academics and for the majority, they are football/basketball first schools.

There are 61 members of the AAU, the elite university status in America. 11 of those 61 are B1G schools. There were 62 until last spring when Nebraska was voted out by a very slight margin. To sit there and stupidly, ignorantly, and stubbornly continue to say they aren't academic first universities is just insane. The B1G schools are land grant, research universities. They are the best of the best as a collection, on par with the Ivy league schools.

When I refer to academics, I'm referring to the toughness of getting into the school. That's what matters with football recruits. It's not hard to get into the majority of the B1G schools. They can have all the research success they want, I'm not talking about that.

[logic]

Haize we agree again.

CJ, you're making this board look terrible. Ever heard of the AAU? Every Big-Ten school a member except Nebraska. Check out US News rankings - Big Ten ranks this way in "Top National Universities"

12. Northwestern
28. Michigan
42. Wisconsin
45. Penn State
45. Illinois
55. Ohio State
62. Purdue
68. Minnesota
71. Michigan State
71. Iowa
(71. Virginia Tech)
75. Indiana
101. Nebraska


Also, don't confuse party schools with not having great academics. Do you think no one in the Ivy League parties? Ha!! Party school rankings largely deal with the size of the Greek system, in which Big Ten schools obviously have large Greek systems. Smart kids party, perhaps harder than anyone else.

[logic]

Football players rarely get in on their own, CJ. Those schools have a certain number of allotments for athletes to "get them in." For the other 45,000 kids....they need to get in on their own. Ohio State with 50k undergrads or whatever and 120 footballers.

[NotAJerry]

When I refer to academics, I'm referring to the toughness of getting into the school. That's what matters with football recruits. It's not hard to get into the majority of the B1G schools. They can have all the research success they want, I'm not talking about that.

So, you start by saying that we need tougher academics to compete with the top schools for top recruits. You then say we need to compete with schools like Duke and Vandy. You follow that by claiming that B1G, SEC, etc. schools don't have top of the line academics. When proven to know absolutely nothing about university academics, you somehow backtrack to the point of admissions standards for athletes which appears nowhere in your initial line of argument.

If your initial argument was right, then schools like Vandy, Duke, Northwestern, etc. would be the elite athletic universities in the country. If your final backtracked position is correct, then you're not making any point about overall university academics and are arguing about admissions requirements which have nothing to do with how many programs Liberty can offer new recruits. You should probably stick with referring to all black QBs as run first QBs and not venture out into any kind of logical discussion about the academic quality of universities.

[bradyfan]

Haize we agree again.

CJ, you're making this board look terrible. Ever heard of the AAU? Every Big-Ten school a member except Nebraska. Check out US News rankings - Big Ten ranks this way in "Top National Universities"

12. Northwestern
28. Michigan
42. Wisconsin
45. Penn State
45. Illinois
55. Ohio State
62. Purdue
68. Minnesota
71. Michigan State
71. Iowa
(71. Virginia Tech)
75. Indiana
101. Nebraska


Also, don't confuse party schools with not having great academics. Do you think no one in the Ivy League parties? Ha!! Party school rankings largely deal with the size of the Greek system, in which Big Ten schools obviously have large Greek systems. Smart kids party, perhaps harder than anyone else.

Read what I posted. I'm not referring to this. I'm referring to how tough it is to get into the schools. I could care less about the AAU when it comes to football recruits.

Football players rarely get in on their own, CJ. Those schools have a certain number of allotments for athletes to "get them in." For the other 45,000 kids....they need to get in on their own. Ohio State with 50k undergrads or whatever and 120 footballers.

I realize that but it's no lie that it's easier to get into the majority of B1G schools than UVA or Duke or VT.

Again, I really don't even care about any of this. I'll go ahead and submit the argument to you because apparently the only thing that offends FF members, more than criticizing UVA"s football program, is making a negative remark about B1G academics. My point had nothing to do with B1G academics, it had more to do with having a good academic program doesn't equal football success.

[bradyfan]

When I refer to academics, I'm referring to the toughness of getting into the school. That's what matters with football recruits. It's not hard to get into the majority of the B1G schools. They can have all the research success they want, I'm not talking about that.

So, you start by saying that we need tougher academics to compete with the top schools for top recruits.

I never said that we need tougher academics to compete. I'm arguing the opposite. Try reading.

[Purple Haize]

It's a lot more difficult to get into B1G schools then you think. There is a reason why you see a lot of schools like IPFW,IUPUI etc. Michigan and Northwestern are very difficult to get into. Plus, don't you think that the level of academic achievement is reflective of admission policies? I mean if they let in just anyone, would they have the academic prestige they do? There is a direct correlation.
Yes there are some academic exceptions provided and one of the reasons why ND has fallen on hard times.

[bradyfan]

It's a lot more difficult to get into B1G schools then you think. There is a reason why you see a lot of schools like IPFW,IUPUI etc. Michigan and Northwestern are very difficult to get into. Plus, don't you think that the level of academic achievement is reflective of admission policies? I mean if they let in just anyone, would they have the academic prestige they do? There is a direct correlation.
Yes there are some academic exceptions provided and one of the reasons why ND has fallen on hard times.

I looked up all the B1G schools on collegeboard admissions. I posted it several posts above and the average SAT to get into the majority of those schools is a 1000 (out of 1600) or a 1500 (out of 2400). Those are considered quite low average SAT scores. Are there a few exceptions like Michigan, Northwestern and Purdue? Yes. I've mentioned those schools numerous times. Again, I'll hand you the argument because frankly I had no idea that so many people would be offended by a simple comparison.

[NotAJerry]

When I refer to academics, I'm referring to the toughness of getting into the school. That's what matters with football recruits. It's not hard to get into the majority of the B1G schools. They can have all the research success they want, I'm not talking about that.

So, you start by saying that we need tougher academics to compete with the top schools for top recruits.

I never said that we need tougher academics to compete. I'm arguing the opposite. Try reading.

That's right, you've just been randomly saying that 11 of the top 61 academic institutions in the country have terrible academics and then backtracking to admissions standards when shown to be completely wrong about it.

[bradyfan]

That's right, you've just been randomly saying that 11 of the top 61 academic institutions in the country have terrible academics and then backtracking to admissions standards when shown to be completely wrong about it.

I'm not completely wrong about it. Go look at B1G admission standards vs IVY league admission standards. Also, who the heck are you? You haven't said one thing with substance. You've simply attacked me off of arguments of others? You're nothing but a poser.

[NotAJerry]

It's a lot more difficult to get into B1G schools then you think. There is a reason why you see a lot of schools like IPFW,IUPUI etc. Michigan and Northwestern are very difficult to get into. Plus, don't you think that the level of academic achievement is reflective of admission policies? I mean if they let in just anyone, would they have the academic prestige they do? There is a direct correlation.
Yes there are some academic exceptions provided and one of the reasons why ND has fallen on hard times.

I looked up all the B1G schools on collegeboard admissions. I posted it several posts above and the average SAT to get into the majority of those schools is a 1000 (out of 1600) or a 1500 (out of 2400). Those are considered quite low average SAT scores. Are there a few exceptions like Michigan, Northwestern and Purdue? Yes. I've mentioned those schools numerous times. Again, I'll hand you the argument because frankly I had no idea that so many people would be offended by a simple comparison.

Your initial argument was about how those schools ranked academically. Admissions standards are a small portion of the equation. When the elite academic status in the country is attained by 11 of 12 schools in a conference, it's stupid to say they aren't premier academic institutions. You've made the following asinine comments about academics:

LSU, Alabama, Penn State, Oklahoma State, Ohio State, and almost every other competitive FBS program has terrible academics.

I'll stop. The B1G has a couple of exceptions like Northwestern and Purdue but for the most part, those schools are merely party schools.

For the most part, the SEC and the B1G do not have great academic institutions. Both have a few but when compared to the ACC (which has Duke, Wake Forest, UVA, UNC, VT, GT, and Clemson) they don't match up.

They do have some really great schools like Northwestern, Purdue and Michigan but for the majority of the conference? I'm not trying to knock conference's academics.

REALLY? The B1G is ahead of every other major athletic conference as far as the overall quality of education offered. You consistently mocked their academics, despite the overwhelming evidence against your position, and yet you claim you aren't "trying to knock conference's academics." You're dead wrong about the quality of colleges, just like you are dead wrong about all black QBs automatically being run first QBs and about the number of years where there have been legitimate arguments against the supposed #1 vs #2 BCS matchup. You're willful ignorance, and blatant racism on the QB issue, are frightening.

[NotAJerry]

That's right, you've just been randomly saying that 11 of the top 61 academic institutions in the country have terrible academics and then backtracking to admissions standards when shown to be completely wrong about it.

I'm not completely wrong about it. Go look at B1G admission standards vs IVY league admission standards. Also, who the heck are you? You haven't said one thing with substance. You've simply attacked me off of arguments of others? You're nothing but a poser.

Okay, so the AAU, the premier standard for universities in the U.S. isn't more important that admissions standards? Do you have any idea what you are talking about at all?

[bradyfan]

Dude, you're an idiot. I'm not even going to comment on this because it seems like you're quite offended. I'm done with this argument, it's off topic and really has nothing to do with the original point that I made. You're foed btw.

[goaliejake22]

how about that feasibility study.....