Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.
User avatar
By flameshaw
#530632 In all fairness, Gill can't know everything that a group of 80-85 players who are 18-22 years old are doing. However, he is responsible for how quickly and effectively he mitigates the problem. In addition, if the players are convinced there will be quick and substantial circumstances for breaking the team/university rules. it can be a major deterrent to the number and severity of offenses. The last sentence is where I sense some big room for improvement.
I have never been quick to recommend coaching changes, it should obviously be the last course of action. I am not sure TG is the guy to move us forward at the FBS level. Hope I am wrong, because he is a great guy.
User avatar
By R i
#530633 I remember one of the Kansas fans coming on here and complaining that Gill was too much of an authoritarian. He hawked the guys too much. He had a no cell phone policy from Friday night until after the game on Saturday, among other things. Maybe he is still trying to find a balance.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#530648
flamehunter wrote:
Purple Haize wrote:
jbock13 wrote:There's no way Gill didn't know that some of this stuff was going on.


I'm going to disagree on that. You'd be surprised what coaches both know and don't know. If these were Academic issues then he'd absolutely should know. This type of stuff maybe not.
For an instance, I was talking to my old coach and we were telling stories. I remember telling him about one players proclivities and he said 'I had no idea. It seemed so opposite of of what he appeared'. And that was a much smaller roster size than a FB team.
Of course, we won't go into what I got away with Study

Come on, I'm sure the statute of limitations have expired.


Why do you think his name is "Purple Haize"?
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#530650 Sometimes Coach said he would 'prefer' we not do things. Sometimes I preferred to do those things.
By jinxy
#530656 You cant know everything but a quick scan oc frazierz twitter is pretty rough. Some are more obvious than others.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#530660
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Well this just got a lot more, complex. I guess it's a little late to abandon ship on Gill and bring in someone worthwhile.
By oldflame
#530662
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#530675 Golly. I wonder if if the LU AD knows of any football coach noted for protecting his players :dontgetit hmmmm
By Just John
#530676 LU is hard enough to recruit to as it is. I have to think the rumors of much discontent on a team gives recruits pause, whether they buy into the culture desired at the school or not.
By oldflame
#530678 It just occurred to me that since we are now FBS, these and potentially other players should be able to transfer to an FCS program and play immediately.
By ballah09
#530680
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.


Well Kansas fans were warning us. Why would they put their name on it? they would risk their scholarship. After watching these past two seasons, I absolutely believe it.

As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed.
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#530689 Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:
By k9saber
#530691 "As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed."

Here is an underlying root issue...let's go big picture. When a sexual assault is compared to smoking weed, obviously one is a greater offense than the other, no argument there. But...when society begins to normalize and accept certain prohibited behaviors, such as marijuana use and its distribution, a much darker picture is presented. That type of justification then comes onto the LU campus and two different worldviews meet. In order to pursue lofty goals on the field, does a biblical worldview, or even one of high ethical standards, get left in the equipment room?

Justification or lowering of standards of behavior will never end with positive results, maybe wins...we have many decades of NCAA teams that have proven this.
By oldflame
#530694
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:


And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.
User avatar
By Class of 20Something
#530695
oldflame wrote:
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:


And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.


:clapping
By oldflame
#530696
ballah09 wrote:
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it, but it does appear there needs to be a greater focus on recruiting men who are a fit for the Liberty culture. We have seen it in basketball, but obviously it is easier to find 13 basketball players in that mold than 85 football players. It's not just the numbers, it's the different nature of the games. Just as important or more, and IMHO easier to accomplish, is that every player who arrives on campus should have a very good concept of what the expectations are and the consequences for not meeting them. It seems we need work in that area.

It will take a lot more than 5 transfers and some negative comments from people who won't put their name to them for me to accept that the football team culture is "poisoned". If another 10 or 12 leave and/or some people in the program are willing to publicly verify the problem, I will be singing a different tune.

The FBS transition situation is what it is, and yes, there may be some who will opt out because of it. I don't think that was even a consideration in making the move, nor should it have been.


Well Kansas fans were warning us. Why would they put their name on it? they would risk their scholarship. After watching these past two seasons, I absolutely believe it.

As a school like Liberty, isn't their mission is to give players and students 2nd chances? I mean we talk about character issue kids but which kid had character issues coming in? none. I think its hypocritical of Gill to quickly kick off a kid rather getting them help. Outside of Jackson, it's friggin weed.


I can't believe you are giving an ounce of credibility to that bunch of losers from Kansas. They were pinning all the problems of their program on TG when it was a dumpster fire for years before he arrived and if anything has gotten worse since he left.

The mission of the school is to build champions for Christ. That may or may not involve "second chances", but it certainly DOES involve teaching kids that there are consequences for wrong actions. We don't know who has been kicked off the team or not in this new group of transfers, but as far as those we know were dismissed in the past, I believe they all deserved it. And please tell me. How would you know that none of these players had character issues coming in? Finally, it was not all weed except Jackson. Holliway had a similar "relationship" with the same woman who accused Jackson, and apparently she flipped a coin or something and decided she would leave the party with Cam. If the coin had landed differently, Tyrin would probably have been the one accused of sexual assault.
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#530701
oldflame wrote:
TH Spangler wrote:Arkansas State AD Terry Mohajir's quote from three years ago keeps ringing in my head .... "I like their vision (LU), I like what they do. My concern is whether they can recruit with their honor code, and I mentioned that to them." :cry:


And not very long after he said that, we signed Will Brown, who also happened to have an offer from Arkansas St.

The question that arises is, was Brown made fully aware of the honor code and the likely consequences of violating it? Carrying that one step further; if he was not, was it 1) simply poor/incomplete communication, or 2) was he intentionally misled to believe Liberty is something different than what it is? If it was 1, then let's get it fixed and make sure we are giving recruits the straight scoop in a way that is clear and not subject to misinterpretation and let the chips fall where they may as far as whether some may elect not to come as a result. If it is 2, then any individual coach who is guilty of that should no longer be employed by Liberty University IMHO. If it is a team wide policy, then Gill and the whole bunch need to go.



I agree. And hope recruiting will be easier now that we can offer FBS.
User avatar
By flameshaw
#530702 BYU has an honor code that is as strict as ours (I would guess), and they do just fine. How about the military academies? Do you think they would say, "it is just some weed"? I would suggest that anyone who goes to BYU, LU and doesn't know about their honor code ahead of time, doesn't have the acumen to get through college in any event.
I don't believe it is harder to recruit to LU than the schools mentioned above.
Right or wrong, marijuana is illegal in the State of VA. How can we, as a christian university condone, or minimize breaking the laws of the State and stay true to our mission?
The leadership team should be held accountable for the character of athlete they recruit, as well as wins on the field. We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.
Finally, if one looks back at our short history, the best athletes we have had on campus were during the years when we had coaches that were no nonsense when it came to doing the right thing. Coaches, Worthington and Hout come to mind immediately. They probably coached more/better NFL and MLB players that the rest of our coaches combined.
By k9saber
#530704
flameshaw wrote:BYU has an honor code that is as strict as ours (I would guess), and they do just fine. How about the military academies? Do you think they would say, "it is just some weed"? I would suggest that anyone who goes to BYU, LU and doesn't know about their honor code ahead of time, doesn't have the acumen to get through college in any event.
I don't believe it is harder to recruit to LU than the schools mentioned above.
Right or wrong, marijuana is illegal in the State of VA. How can we, as a christian university condone, or minimize breaking the laws of the State and stay true to our mission?
The leadership team should be held accountable for the character of athlete they recruit, as well as wins on the field. We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.
Finally, if one looks back at our short history, the best athletes we have had on campus were during the years when we had coaches that were no nonsense when it came to doing the right thing. Coaches, Worthington and Hout come to mind immediately. They probably coached more/better NFL and MLB players that the rest of our coaches combined.


Best commentary yet.
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#530705
flameshaw wrote: We seem to be doing a pretty good job in the basketball and baseball teams as of late. Hopefully we can get on the right track with football. Very disappointing.


I really like Scott Jackson. I see baseball doing very well under him.
User avatar
By rmiller1959
#530715
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it...


For example, the continued and mistaken insistence on equating a Title IX violation with criminal charges, thereby presuming the lack of the latter means the former is invalid?
By oldflame
#530720
rmiller1959 wrote:
oldflame wrote:
A Sea of Red wrote:The Heat: This Isn't a Purge

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this-isnt-a-purge/


Interesting take. Not sure I agree with a lot of it...


For example, the continued and mistaken insistence on equating a Title IX violation with criminal charges, thereby presuming the lack of the latter means the former is invalid?


There is that, but I was referring more to the conclusion he seems to have reached (and I believe it is indeed a REACH) that the culture of the football team is "poisoned". It's a strong term, and I don't see enough to back it up. We will know more in the next couple of months based on whether more leave and how many. The actual amount of attrition to this point is only nominally more than any normal year.

I also question his conclusion that all these guys left of their own accord and the coaches were "begging" them to stay. If they were, I'm sure they were not doing it in front of the team, so any of that would have come second or 3rd hand from the players leaving. If they had in fact been dismissed, but had been told there would be no public statement to that effect if they transferred, they could tell their teammates whatever they wanted to in order to look good.
By oldflame
#530724 As far as whether or not Gill "backed up" his players, I think a coach's decision to do that and/or offer second chances often comes down to the player's attitude toward their actions. To this point I have not heard the slightest hint from any of these guys that they have any remorse, shame, or even accountability for what they have done.
By BuryYourDuke
#530727 First off thank y'all for reading my column.

With regards to the Title IX/criminal law distinction, I'm quite familiar with the difference. My objection to the Title IX portion of the case has nothing to do with the criminal action. It has everything to do with the broad stroke abuse of Title IX in a manner that it was never intended. Sad that our university has fallen prey to that.

OldFlame, I understand a bit of your skepticism. I have the benefit that you do not, and that is knowing the names of the people who said the things they did to me, as well as the others who have come forward since my column was published. My assertion has been proven more correct in the past 24 hours than even I had believed.
By oldflame
#530731
BuryYourDuke wrote:First off thank y'all for reading my column.

With regards to the Title IX/criminal law distinction, I'm quite familiar with the difference. My objection to the Title IX portion of the case has nothing to do with the criminal action. It has everything to do with the broad stroke abuse of Title IX in a manner that it was never intended. Sad that our university has fallen prey to that.

OldFlame, I understand a bit of your skepticism. I have the benefit that you do not, and that is knowing the names of the people who said the things they did to me, as well as the others who have come forward since my column was published. My assertion has been proven more correct in the past 24 hours than even I had believed.


Appreciate the response and update Duke, and understanding my skepticism, which is probably the best word to describe how I felt (with perhaps a few drops from that river in Egypt sprinkled in). 8)

Hoping it's not too late for Turner to right the ship.
By oldflame
#530746 Interesting (but not at all surprising) that there has been zero discussion as to whether our swim team needs to be more careful/selective in who they recruit.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#530750
oldflame wrote:Interesting (but not at all surprising) that there has been zero discussion as to whether our swim team needs to be more careful/selective in who they recruit.


But their dress code ....... :shock:
By BuryYourDuke
#530783 It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.
By oldflame
#530790 Paging Chris Turner, Javon Frazier and Will Brown. :buttkick Second thoughts? If not, enjoy playing your Senior year against a bunch of no-names at that FCS program you end up at. :nod

Turner and Frazier have both used their redshirt year and would be sitting one to play one and losing a year on the field at any FBS program that wanted them. Highly unlikely Javon will get the opportunity. Chris might, but would it be worth it?.
Brown still has a redshirt year. Maybe Arkansas State still wants him. SBC is FBS, right? :rofl

Bold prediction. If these guys in fact were all leaving by their own choice, at least one will announce a change of heart before all is said and done.
By oldflame
#530792
BuryYourDuke wrote:It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.


I did say I was not surprised, but as far as internet interest is concerned, while lower D1 swimming may not be click-bait, salacious behavior most definately is. 8)

There is a huge tusker of an elephant in the room on this whole thing, and I can't decide if I want to be the one to point it out.
User avatar
By rmiller1959
#530796
BuryYourDuke wrote:First off thank y'all for reading my column.

With regards to the Title IX/criminal law distinction, I'm quite familiar with the difference. My objection to the Title IX portion of the case has nothing to do with the criminal action. It has everything to do with the broad stroke abuse of Title IX in a manner that it was never intended. Sad that our university has fallen prey to that.

OldFlame, I understand a bit of your skepticism. I have the benefit that you do not, and that is knowing the names of the people who said the things they did to me, as well as the others who have come forward since my column was published. My assertion has been proven more correct in the past 24 hours than even I had believed.


Thank you for your candor, Duke. Respectfully, however, what you may consider "broad stroke abuse" is a consequence of the law itself, which is written to define non-consent quite expansively and leaves little room for considering factors outside of the discrete event itself. The same process which you describe as a kangaroo court has also ruled in favor of an accused athlete within the same academic year - has that also been taken into account?

The people who have to make these decisions do so with sober judgment and take no pleasure in it. People are entitled to their opinions about the process, and some of those opinions have merit, but I simply felt that in your comments, you impugned the integrity of the people in the process, and that's what I took exception to.
User avatar
By jcmanson
#530802 Lucas Holder left on his own accord.
Will Brown left on his own accord.
Stephon Masha left on his own accord.
DeCarlo Hamilton left on his own accord.
Tyrin Holloway left on his own accord.
Javon Frazier requested his release before he was arrested.
Chris Turner had been contemplating transferring for a while, but he was facing at least some type of punishment if not being kicked off the team all together before making his decision.

Several other names have been rumored as eyeing the door as well. We'll see if any of them decide to pull the trigger.
By BuryYourDuke
#530803
oldflame wrote:
BuryYourDuke wrote:It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.


I did say I was not surprised, but as far as internet interest is concerned, while lower D1 swimming may not be click-bait, salacious behavior most definately is. 8)

There is a huge tusker of an elephant in the room on this whole thing, and I can't decide if I want to be the one to point it out.


I think you should point it out.

And, obviously we did our share of publicizing that salacious behavior when we published the details.
By oldflame
#530811
jcmanson wrote:Lucas Holder left on his own accord.
Will Brown left on his own accord.
Stephon Masha left on his own accord.
DeCarlo Hamilton left on his own accord.
Tyrin Holloway left on his own accord.
Javon Frazier requested his release before he was arrested.
Chris Turner had been contemplating transferring for a while, but he was facing at least some type of punishment if not being kicked off the team all together before making his decision.

Several other names have been rumored as eyeing the door as well. We'll see if any of them decide to pull the trigger.


Masha and Holder may not have been happy campers, but Masha's reasons were mainly football and Holder's were academic and political.

Holloway probably left of his own accord, but I think that may have had mostly to do with embarrassment. Not over his actions, but over the fact that it's now out there that the girl basically cuckolded him with Jackson that night. Not very good for your street cred. Oh yeah, he wants to go into law enforcement. :roll:

A lot of people "contemplate" a lot of things. What you are saying is that Turner left under the impending threat of possible dismissal.

Javon may have asked for his release before his arrest, but that doesn't mean he didn't know it was coming

Will Brown is a snowflake. (sorry,that's all I got on him.)
DeCarlo Hamilton...... don't care
By oldflame
#530812
BuryYourDuke wrote:
oldflame wrote:
BuryYourDuke wrote:It's swimming. I agree with you, but no one clicks on articles about a lower tier D-1 swim team.

Heck, thousands of people come watch our hockey team play every year and the occasional article on them gets almost no traffic.


I did say I was not surprised, but as far as internet interest is concerned, while lower D1 swimming may not be click-bait, salacious behavior most definately is. 8)

There is a huge tusker of an elephant in the room on this whole thing, and I can't decide if I want to be the one to point it out.


I think you should point it out.

And, obviously we did our share of publicizing that salacious behavior when we published the details.


Why me? :nonono I have to think about it.
User avatar
By Cider Jim
#531142
oldflame wrote: the girl basically cuckolded him

Oldflame is going old school with a 19th century Victorian literary term. Study That LBC education is still paying off! :clapping
User avatar
By Purple Haize
#531147
Cider Jim wrote:
oldflame wrote: the girl basically cuckolded him

Oldflame is going old school with a 19th century Victorian literary term. Study That LBC education is still paying off! :clapping


That word has made a huuuge comeback recently. Bigly. The Milo's and Antifa's of the World like hurling it back and forth at each other
User avatar
By BJWilliams
#531170
forbidden wrote:Been a long time, the shenanigans continue

Good to see you again coach...got a couple 2018 recruits I'd love to get your perspective on
User avatar
By Sly Fox
#531369 Wow! That is exatly what we want to hear from our head coach. Well stated, Coach!
By thepostman
#531370 Yeah, I just finished reading that response. It was a very well written response. I am sure once PH reads it his man crush will just grow.
By oldflame
#531372
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/


Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.
User avatar
By rmiller1959
#531375
oldflame wrote:
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/


Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.


Hear, hear! :clapping
User avatar
By TH Spangler
#531376 I posted this last year.

http://arrestnation.com/tag/college-football/

Gill seems to be going in ... eyes wide open. Hopefully he can create a FBS landing spot for great athletes that don't want to deal with all the foolishness.
By cruzan_flame13
#531388
oldflame wrote:
rmiller1959 wrote:I thought Coach Gill's response to Duke's column was well done. He didn't dodge any of the concerns raised and he offered a sound defense of his staff, the program, and the school.

http://www.aseaofred.com/the-heat-this- ... -responds/


Totally agree. Perhaps one of the best points he raised is how difficult it is to get complete and accurate information regarding negative issues a recruit may have from HS coaches and others. There is not a lot of incentive for them to be forthcoming, and there are potential negative consequences if they are. After reading this, I do feel much more confident that our recruits are being made fully aware of what they are to expect when the come to Liberty.

Coach Gill's words were a strong reminder to me that all the fine people at my alma mater who are working to build champions for Christ need our prayers, and I was convicted by the Holy Spirit regarding my failure to support our coaching staff in this way. That is going to change. I hope many of you who are passionate about Liberty and it's athletic programs will join me.



I pray about this daily. At times I can hear myself repeating the same thing over and over while thanking the Lord for His blessings and grace. This was a good response oldflame and I respect you for that. This transition to FBS is more than just having a great athletic program. This is an opportunity in which a school who want to train champions for Christ can use its success in their athletic and academic positions to be the light in this dark world. Of course that success will draw many people from all parts of this nation, but it is a good opportunity for those men and women to represent Christ on a national and even international scale. People are watching LU and how it is not condoning so much to the world and it is doing quite well in my opinion. We may not agree with everything that is done for the school, but at the end of the day we need to pray. I'm going to continue thanking the Lord for using the university and hopefully will continue to use LU as a platform for His mission. May we glorify His name through all of our success as a university and to continue asking for guidance for the school's adverse moments. Again, thanks for your post oldflame.
By oldflame
#531391 Intriguing tweet from manson

https://twitter.com/ASeaofRed/status/865620681911713794

If Turner's off field issues can be resolved to the satisfaction of the authorities, the University and Coach Gill, I would be thrilled if he in fact decides to stick it out at LU. I believe in second chances for those who are repentant.

The updated roster manson referenced is now up on the AC website

http://www.liberty.edu/flames/index.cfm ... 1&TeamID=9

In addition to the deletions, all of the 2017 signees have been added.
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By jbock13
#531397 We've been down this road before regarding second chances...