Anything and everything about Liberty Flames football. Your comments on games, recruiting and the direction of the program as we move into new era.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke, Class of 20Something

By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#370937
jcmanson wrote:
LUconn wrote:the phog says Gill to Liberty. I'm sure they probably just read the N&A article. It's just the Kansas version of us

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f=2485&t=8434870

PS. They really seem to hate him.
Interesting. He can't win anything? They seem to forget what he did at Buffalo. I'm not saying this guy has the best resume in the world, but I think what he did at Buffalo is more prevalent for us than what he did/ couldn’t do at Kansas.

They also seem prone to just make up whatever they want
Probably not, but all Liberty employees are required to tithe to the Thomas Road Baptist Church, even if they don't belong to it. Call it a kickback.
By From the class of 09
Registration Days Posts
#370939
R i wrote:From the Kansas Fan:
Well, they think the Earth was literally created in one week.....they probably think a football team doesn't take much longer.
:lol:
Coming from a Kansas fan that is a classic.
By JoeBob Briggs
Registration Days
#370940
You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#370941
jcmanson wrote:I'd calm down with renaming the entire University after a guy who has only apparently been interviewed.
You should know by now jc that any potentially big news sends this place into a frenzy. Course all I was referring to was our little tent community that sprouts up the night before every home game. I think that might create a pretty big splash not only among the students but also the community if he does end up being the guy to lead us out of the tunnel next fall
By From the class of 09
Registration Days Posts
#370942
From a Buffalo paper on Gill's firing

The man who led the Bulls to the International Bowl in 2008 is a UB legend. But following a hasty exit at Kansas, now he's an unemployed legend.

Turner Gill was fired Sunday after he met with Athletic Director Sheahon Zenger.

He led the Jayhawks to a 5-19 record in two years as head football coach. He took that job – a glamorous job, a job in a major conference, an upgrade – after three years of coaching at UB. He went 1-16 in the Big 12.

There used to generally be an unspoken three-year rule for college football coaches. They get three years to prove their worth before they're disposable. Athletic Director Warde Manuel was asked if he thinks the rule still exists.

"No," Manuel said. "Traditionally, it's probably more of an after four-year decision, but there have been several institutions over the past few years that have started to make decisions on coaches after their second, third year. And while I can't speak to that, if it's strictly based on wins and losses, I think it's too soon. You need to give coaches an opportunity to build a program with their recruits and then determine their fate in the four or five year period."

Though he only went 20-30 in four years in Buffalo, he is held in such high regard because he turned around a terrible team. The Bulls went 8-49 under Jim Hofher, the head coach prior to Gill.

The Bulls won the Mid-American Conference East title in 2007 and 2008. He won MAC Coach of the Year in 2007.

Gill wasn't given the traditional three-year period, and some of his former players aren't happy about it.

"I think [Kansas] didn't give him enough time to get his players in there," said former Bulls linebacker Justin Winters in an email. "[Kansas] let go a great coach."

Manuel, too, said he didn't think Gill was given enough time.

Lew Perkins, Zenger's predecessor, hired Gill. He was given a five-year, $10-million dollar contract. He is still owed approximately $6 million.

He expected to be back, and said at a postseason press conference that the team had a harder road in front of it than he'd expected. He still said the program was moving in the right direction.

Several coaches, including Iowa State coach Paul Rhodes and Oklahoma's Bob Stoops have come to Gill's defense.

"I think there's no way in the world you can build your program, a program that's been down, and flip it that quick, or even have a chance to flip it that quick," said Missouri head coach Gary Pinkel. "I think it's really disappointing."

Gill took over a 5-7 Kansas team in 2010.

The 49-year-old Texas native was one of 11 African-American head coaches in Division-1 at the time of his hiring. Gill was a quarterback for Nebraska as a college student and he pieced together a successful career – finishing with a 28-2 record in three years as the starter.

The Jayhawks started the season with two wins but finished the season 2-10. Kansas ranked last in the FBS in total defense and scoring defense this year.

"Playing for Turner was great," Winters said. "He made you feel like you can win any game and confidence is a big part of the game. Turner is a man of integrity and a great recruiter so he will bounce back and take another program or NFL team to greatness."

Manuel is also confident Gill will land on his feet.

"I think he still has the ability to be a head coach and I think there are A.D.s out there that will look at it the way I do: that he deserved more time," Manuel said. "Turner is an outstanding person who does things the right way."

Manuel was then asked if he would ever consider bringing Gill back.

"Sure, I love what Turner did here and respect it greatly," Manuel said. "If anything changes here in the future and an opportunity is here, I'll definitely talk to him again and see if he'd want to come back."

However, Manuel said he is pleased right now with the progress current head coach Jeff Quinn is making. Quinn is the only man to coach Buffalo since Gill left, and he's gone 5-19 in two years. Some fans are already calling for his job. Manuel had a message for those fans:

"Be patient," Manuel said. "He brought in a different system, and he now has his second full recruiting class coming up. I'm not going to make a decision on a coach after the second year and predicate it on just what's going on out on the field."
http://www.ubspectrum.com/mobile/sports ... -1.2718226
User avatar
By R i
Registration Days Posts
#370943
JoeBob Briggs wrote:You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.
From a Kansas or Buffalo fan?
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#370944
R i wrote:
JoeBob Briggs wrote:You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.
From a Kansas or Buffalo fan?
Kansas fan
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#370945
JoeBob Briggs wrote:You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.
He won 8 football games in 1 season at Buffalo. Buffalo. I think they combined for that many wins in their previous 5 years. Yeah sounds like he's bad at everything related to football.
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#370946
From the sound of it, probably a disgruntled Kansas fan to boot (and sounds like there were a LOT of those). The way things sound in a lot of what Im reading, he was in a no win situation out in Lawrence.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#370947
JoeBob Briggs wrote:You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.

Did they not play football in Buffalo? Or '03 Nebraska when he was the assistant HC? What sport did Tommy Frazier and Eric Crouch play when Gill was their QB coach? We get it, he didn't do well at Kansas.
User avatar
By RVAparks
Registration Days Posts
#370949
JoeBob Briggs wrote:You guys want no part in Turner Gill . . . and I mean none. He is bad at everything related to football, and his players are even worse off the field than they are on. I'd call your AD and tell him to do some investigating if he is really considering the hire.
Thank you for your very specific examples
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#370952
How could there possibly be a salary issue when he has made 4 million the last 2 years, and is still being paid 6 million from Kansas?
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#370955
LUconn wrote:How could there possibly be a salary issue when he has made 4 million the last 2 years, and is still being paid 6 million from Kansas?
Regardless of how much somebody else owes you, you still want to be paid fair market value for your services. I can't imagine he will be feeling charitable just because it's Liberty. He was a highly paid head coach and likely doesn't want to take much of a pay cut.
By LUconn
Registration Days Posts
#370956
smaller schools get deals on coaches who are being supplemented from a buy out all the time. 2 million a year for 3 years is plenty of time and money to renegotiate down the road.
User avatar
By RVAparks
Registration Days Posts
#370957
LUconn wrote:How could there possibly be a salary issue when he has made 4 million the last 2 years, and is still being paid 6 million from Kansas?
Some contracts have stipulations where if you take another HC job you are no longer entitled to the full 6 million. Not sure if that is the case but it's certainly a possibility.
User avatar
By jcmanson
Registration Days Posts
#370959
jcmanson wrote:How much did he get paid at Buffalo?
I sort of answered my own question:

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stor ... ily18.html
The University at Buffalo's Turner Gill is right behind him with a package worth $401,300. Gill's package at UB, according to USA Today, includes a base salary of $200,651 and additional income of $200,649, adding to $401,300.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ ... tabase.htm

That's roughly what we were paying Rocco.
User avatar
By RVAparks
Registration Days Posts
#370960
jcmanson wrote:How much did he get paid at Buffalo?
The contract extension he signed there in 2008 had him just under 500K per year
User avatar
By RVAparks
Registration Days Posts
#370961
That's roughly what we were paying Rocco.
That doesn't matter. If you're Turner Gill you have a lot more leverage then Rocco and a lot better resume.
By JoeBob Briggs
Registration Days
#370962
Gill has a lot of problems, too numerous to list, but I will try to list a few.

He has ZERO discipline, on or off the field. In fact, he festered a Club Med, Las Vegas vacation atmosphere in the program with no accountability.

As of November, 53 players had at least ONE F. 53. And this is from a man who claims to care about his players, and most of these guys are his recruits.

Drug Test failures are rampant. I know these are kids and drugs will always be an issue, but not to the extent that Gill allowed. Sometime you have to set examples and boot players, Gill didn't have the stones to do it.

KU players were severely out of shape (maybe the party/drug atmosphere?). KU players seemed to get fatter during the season. Gill fired the old Strength and Conditioning coach and hired an obese new one. The players openly mocked the new program as it was a joke. The S&C coach brought McDonalds to work and fell asleep in his office. KU was the weakest and worst shape team in the country.

Gill is not organized, at all. He struggled with the mundane to the significant tasks in running a program. He struggles with just organizing a practice.

Gill bases his hires on religious beliefs, not competency.

Turner Gill's actual hands on fundamental and X and 0 coaching is severely, severely limited. He must rely on his staff to do it all. He was hired at Nebraska as a figurehead only and given little to no actual coaching responsiblity. His job was to be Turner Gill and impress recruits coming in, he was never a coordinator anywhere because he is not capable of being a coordinator. When he eventually figured out Nebraska wasn't taking him serious, he moved on to Buffalo. He wasn't a coordinator there either. He is not capable of being a coordinator and I doubt he even knows the names of any plays. This lack of general football knowledge is critical because when there is a problem, he has no way to even identify what the problem is, let alone fix it.

In Gill's entire career, he lucked into ONE decent season in which he finished tied FOURTH in the MAC, but because UB was in the by far weaker division (and because of a hail mary win), they got a chance to play in the MAC title game wherein they pulled a huge upset because the opposing team turned the ball over something like 7 times. That UB team had a NFL QB and RB (I don't think he recruited them) and that was the secret to success, not TG. They went back to normal the next year. Then the new coach came in and found the program in a mess, he didn't leave much behind.

For some reason Gill receives, and has always received, a lot of publicity from that win (season) and his subsequent pretend job interviews at Nebraska and Auburn (and Charles Barkley's comments). He seems like a nice guy so a lot of people want him to succeed.

Gill is a horrible public speaker, like the worst. He will install no public confidence in his message because he is not capable of articulating a message or plan. He might fool you the first time you hear him, but if you really listen he is beyond horrible. He will throw out random meaningless phrases like 'from that standpoint' and 'per se' at will, and you better get ready for the word 'there' because he says it every third word, said it around 80 times per television show.

He is supposedly a great recruiter, but I don't think a lot of people buy it. His classes at UB were really bad and towards bottom of conference. He brought in some skill talent at KU (sounds like a lot of it is being kicked out anyway for grades/drugs). However, the reason KU brought in recruits is because KU bought Gill several recruiting wizards as assistant coaches for around $2 million dollars, particularly Reggie Mitchell and Darell Wyatt. I doubt Liberty can afford to do that. I don't think Gill can recruit, but if he does have a strength, this is supposed to be it.

Gill makes insane silly rules that get ridiculed by the media and rivals. He does silly things that don't matter, like taking the names off the backs of the jerseys (to show team?) and not allowing girl sleep overs, yet he doesn't pay attention that they don't go to class?

I could go on and on, but this is start. Turner Gill is the most incompetent person I have ever witnessed coach. I'm not exaggerating. I would not trust him to run my high school and that is not hyperbole. If you are not very bright, you have to be very organized and goal oriented. He is none of those things.

Oh, I didn't even get into game play. No clue on time out or clock mangement. regularly burn at dumb times for not having enough guys on field. One time had to call a TO on the SECOND play of the game. Several members of the coaching staff wear their hats on backwards on the sidelines, totally unprofessional looking.

Players quit on Gill very quickly, probably in at least half the games he coaches. One team had their backup QB in a game against Gill in the 2nd quarter . . . never seen that before. KU was setting national records in futility under KU and was joke on espn and other broadcasts 'stuff like, well at least it is not as bad as KU'. Worst defense in the country and the offense wasn't much better. Lots of penalties. Horrible special teams, horrible. I think KU had 5 punts and FGs blocked his first year. Every week something new bad would happen, just like when it looks like it couldn't get any worse, fill in the blank happens.

Several teams facing Gill set all time school records against Gill.

Gill shows NO emotion on the sidelines and looks like he is about to fall asleep.

I could go on and on. I would really hate to see the guy fool another program.
User avatar
By TallyW
Registration Days Posts
#370963
Just because there's nothing new and I'm curious:

If we got TG... what are the odds that the MAC would look favorably toward our entry into their conference if they get raided by the other shakeups that are coming down.

I suppose tied into that question is: Are some of the MAC schools currently on any radar to be taken out of the MAC?

Again, just curious.

If the MAC goes looking around and they see a new Buffalo situation... that can't be bad for them. He brought a ton of attention to their conference with his run. Thoughts?
User avatar
By BJWilliams
Registration Days Posts
#370965
I think that of the FBS conferences, the MAC is pretty far down the order of smaller conferences that could be raided for teams by bigger conferences.
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