[PeterParker]

Saddleback Civil Forum:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYNA1KVjLnI


You'll have to click around for the other 12 parts showing the rest of it as people appear to still be in the process of putting them up on youtube.

This one seems to have most of them without the CNN preamble from above:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmAu1UbmPM

[mrmacphisto]

My initial thoughts:

Rick Warren isn't Tim Russert (far from it), but he asked some smart questions. A few seemed agenda-setting (the orphan one jumped out at me), but he's the host, and I actually think it was a smart way to get ideas like that out there. I think he made a little too much noise while the candidates were answering (too much "uh-huh" and "yeah" going on). Overall, very good for a church-sponsored event. I think this forum is a sign of a paradigm shift of sorts in regards to the role of (Christian) faith in politics, and a positive one, in my opinion.

Obama's performance wasn't nearly as strong as I thought he would be. He's a fantastic orator, but not as good as McCain when speaking off-the-cuff, and it was easy to see why his campaign balked at the proposal of numerous town hall debates. His good-natured crack at Warren's book sales was humorous, and I thought they had good banter.

McCain did very well performance-wise. He was quick to answer and even witty at times. I thought his portion was a little too war-focused (although that's not surprising), with the numerous references to Petraeus and his time as a POW (although the story about the Christian captor was moving). He answered most of the questions, but tended to launch into slightly off-topic anecdotes.

Both candidates seemed relatively candid, at least as close to candid as they probably get on national television. My main takeaway from the forum was that regardless of who wins, it probably won't make that much of a difference in my daily life (although, of course, it's not about me). McCain and Obama gave similar answers to quite a few questions, and the ones where they seemed to differ the most weren't really issues on which Presidents make much of a difference (e.g., abortion). Despite their ideological differences, on actual Executive issues, they don't seem that dissimilar to me, at least in this forum.

This is all probably moot anyway, as I'm most likely not voting, but those were my impressions.

[FlameDad]

This is all probably moot anyway, as I'm most likely not voting, but those were my impressions

.

Then why the four paragraphs of analysis?

[thepostman]

I watched this last night and really think John McCain won this thing...he seemed completely comfortable and was very funny...Obama did a good job for the most part, but there were times I thought he seemed nervous and a bit timid.

I thought this was a great set up and it gave us a way to hear the candidates views on different things. I thought it was funny when Obama said something about one of the supreme court justices not being qualified and not being experienced enough for such a position when many feel the same way about Obama..

overall, very interesting and I feel more comfortable voting for McCain now

[rogers3]

This is all probably moot anyway, as I'm most likely not voting, but those were my impressions

.

Then why the four paragraphs of analysis?

Maybe it was the stay at the Holiday Inn Express. I guess we just get to imagine why someone wouldn't take the opportunity to exercise one's right to vote.

[RubberMallet]

when presented with a dinner of turd pie or turd pie with nuts wouldn't you just prefer to not eat at all?...

[LUconn]

Vote for a 3rd party. Any 3rd party. It's really the same thing as not voting but it at least sends a message.

[The Dude]

Rick Warren seemed a little nervous at first. He appeared uneasy and was perspiring during Obama's section.

I thought Obama did okay, at least in his performance. I'm always intrigued though with liberal politicians when they quote scripture in regards to certain subjects yet turn around and support issues like abortion and gay unions.

As for McCain, I thought he came across well and did a good job. He was humorous at times and seemed comfortable in this setting. It may have been the audience he was speaking to, but after listening to him last night you'd think he was a dyed in the wool conservative. Of course I'm sure after listening to him speak to the NAACP you'd think he was a black man who just happened to have a typical white grandmother. Regardless, he's much closer to my position than Obama and I'll have no problem supporting him in this election.

Also, voting third party is just a waste of a vote. Might as well write in Mickey Mouse or stay home, just as effective.

[RubberMallet]

Vote for a 3rd party. Any 3rd party. It's really the same thing as not voting but it at least sends a message.

oh i know...i'm just saying though, i just dispise the "if you don't vote you don't have a right to complain" comments i see thrown around....3rd party voting here...

[PAmedic]

when presented with a dinner of turd pie or turd pie with nuts wouldn't you just prefer to not eat at all?...

excellent analysis

[mrmacphisto]

This is all probably moot anyway, as I'm most likely not voting, but those were my impressions

.

Then why the four paragraphs of analysis?

Maybe it was the stay at the Holiday Inn Express. I guess we just get to imagine why someone wouldn't take the opportunity to exercise one's right to vote.

I'm exercising my right to not vote. I'm proud to live in a country where such things aren't compulsory.

Also, just because I'm probably not voting doesn't mean I'm not interested in politics or the future of America. It will be interesting to see how things unfold.

[SumItUp]

I'm exercising my right to not vote. I'm proud to live in a country where such things aren't compulsory.

Also, just because I'm probably not voting doesn't mean I'm not interested in politics or the future of America. It will be interesting to see how things unfold.

Don't pat yourself on the back. Comments like these make me want to

[pcguy09]

if your not voting your doing the complete opposite of what the Lord commands us to do as christians. Even if you don't agree with either of these canidates, you should at least trow your vote towards the one who agrees more with the christian morals... John Mccain.

[FlameNForest]

Now that I think about it, it may be good that some people aren't voting.

[adam42381]

if your not voting your doing the complete opposite of what the Lord commands us to do as christians. Even if you don't agree with either of these canidates, you should at least trow your vote towards the one who agrees more with the christian morals... John Mccain.

I forgot that the 11th commandment was: Thou Shalt Vote In Each And Every Election Regardless Of Your Opinion On The Candidates Who Are Running.

[RubberMallet]

if your not voting your doing the complete opposite of what the Lord commands us to do as christians. Even if you don't agree with either of these canidates, you should at least trow your vote towards the one who agrees more with the christian morals... John Mccain.

this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard....so the lord commands us to vote for john mccain...

[FlameNForest]

if your not voting your doing the complete opposite of what the Lord commands us to do as christians. Even if you don't agree with either of these canidates, you should at least trow your vote towards the one who agrees more with the christian morals... John Mccain.

this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard....so the lord commands us to vote for john mccain...

I'm sure we're not commanded to vote for anyone in particular, but I doubt he'd want us to vote for Obama

[pcguy09]

i never said the Lord commanded us to vote for john mccain.. i said i think its pretty obvious that it is our duty as christians to get out there and vote.. i probably shouldn't have used the word command, but more of a duty. And with the two main candidates being Mccain or barack, i think that mccain believes in the moral things that christians would want for this country

[thepostman]

So its God's will for all Christians do vote? Can you please, I beg of you, show me scripture that backs this up...you can not just throw at statement like that around just because you "feel" like it is what God would want...

There is a lot more things we as Christians need to do that we aren't very good at...and that would be reaching this country and the world for Christ...and every election year, we as Christians, use it as a time to hurt the name of Christ then help it...

its sad, but true...

so yes...I would love to see what scripture you use to back up such a claim...thanks

[RubberMallet]

i never said the Lord commanded us to vote for john mccain.. i said i think its pretty obvious that it is our duty as christians to get out there and vote.. i probably shouldn't have used the word command, but more of a duty. And with the two main candidates being Mccain or barack, i think that mccain believes in the moral things that christians would want for this country

where is this voting duty we are commanded to partake in....we are supposed to submit to our governing authorities and pay our taxes...

[PastorZack]

as christian, we have a responsibility to the government. we have the responsibility as americans to vote. voting is the voice we have every cycle. would you rather have only about 40 percent of the registered voters elect who runs this country from president on down the tickets? that is what is effectively happening in this country. we have the majority of the 40 percent in charge of what is reality the larger 80 percent of the people. That's not including the large numbers of people that are not even registered to vote. It pains me as an AMERICAN that people do not exercise their RIGHT to vote. Think about it. What would it hurt to vote? what does it hurt to not vote?

[RubberMallet]

as christian, we have a responsibility to the government. we have the responsibility as americans to vote. voting is the voice we have every cycle. would you rather have only about 40 percent of the registered voters elect who runs this country from president on down the tickets? that is what is effectively happening in this country. we have the majority of the 40 percent in charge of what is reality the larger 80 percent of the people. That's not including the large numbers of people that are not even registered to vote. It pains me as an AMERICAN that people do not exercise their RIGHT to vote. Think about it. What would it hurt to vote? what does it hurt to not vote?

you can't turn this into 5 degrees of kevin bacon (we have a duty to our gvt, the amercian gvt gives us the right to vote, therefore God says we have to vote....we also have teh right to not vote..... there is nothing that tells us we have to vote. i don't think people shouldn't vote just to not vote. however,

if candidate A i dont' agree with at all adn dont' think he'd make a good president and
candidate B is running and i agree with him on a few things but overall i don't think he'll make a good president and
i'm not to fond of option C,D,E,F or G and dont' think they are qualified either, i dont' feel that i have to vote jsut for the sake of voting...

in todays day and age, however, there is the easy ability to find out who the other candidates are and its easier to find one you like. the problem is most see it as "why bother, it does nothing"....but if a good # of voters that actually vote are voting for neither party but some libertarian guy (any of them, its just not a vote for the dems or repubs), if enough peopel do it, it will get noticed.....the gvt never counts people who don't vote in teh "didn't like either choice" option, they file them under "they dont' care enough"

i think one should vote for anyone they feel comfortable in that position.

in 04 i voted all they way through the ballet except for our president.....i thought both were idiots...i voted for David A. Noebel

[LUconn]

I figured a PC guy would say, Every leader has been and will be specifically appointed by God. It's predestined so it doesn't even really matter if you vote.

[FlameNForest]

in todays day and age, however, there is the easy ability to find out who the other candidates are and its easier to find one you like. the problem is most see it as "why bother, it does nothing"....but if a good # of voters that actually vote are voting for neither party but some libertarian guy (any of them, its just not a vote for the dems or repubs), if enough peopel do it, it will get noticed.....

Ross Perot received the largest % of votes for a 3rd party candidate in recent history with 19%. I'm sure it got noticed, but did it change anything? I guess it at least makes the voter feel like they accomplished something.

[Sly Fox]

I figured a PC guy would say, Every leader has been and will be specifically appointed by God. It's predestined so it doesn't even really matter if you vote.

As I was scrolling down the thread I was thinking the exact same thing. You beat me to the reply.

The funny thing is that most free will Liberty folks are taking the opposite position. This thread oozes irony.