A Sea Of Red

TULSA, Okla. (AP) -- Oral Roberts University, the debt-ridden evangelical institution riven by scandal, has been handed a $70 million lifeline.

Mart Green, founder of the Christian office and educational supply store chain Mardel, said Tuesday he would immediately give $8 million to the university, with the rest to come after a 60-to-90-day review of the university's financial records.

I found this next quote most interesting, particularly the last line...

The pledge came on the same day the university's regents said they planned to separate the finances and leadership of the university from the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association.

The association is a nonprofit ministry that produces television and radio programs, including "The Hour of Healing," among its many outreaches, according to its Web site.

The university has been under the ministry since its inception in 1963, an arrangement that critics say led to co-mingling of funds and a blurring of leadership roles.

I don't know the whole LU history, but it seems like JF did a nice job in separating TRBC and LU in the time since I've been here (since 2000).

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/ ... SECTION=US

i never like to see a good school fail, so im glad they have a lifeline. we as LU people should understand.

I hope that their board is able to right their management issues before these new funds get pumped into the place. It certainly seems that money hasn't done them any favors lately.

Is the wife going to stay?

Hold My Own wrote:Is the wife going to stay?

Dudes without girlfriends have high hopes.

HA...and under 16

To far? Nahhhh

Fumblerooskies wrote:I don't know the whole LU history, but it seems like JF did a nice job in separating TRBC and LU in the time since I've been here (since 2000).

I'm going to pause, let out a nervous cough and say No Comment.

mrmacphisto wrote:

Fumblerooskies wrote:I don't know the whole LU history, but it seems like JF did a nice job in separating TRBC and LU in the time since I've been here (since 2000).

I'm going to pause, let out a nervous cough and say No Comment.

I don't think you can get away with that. Is there something you'd like to present that says otherwise?

mrmacphisto wrote:

Fumblerooskies wrote:I don't know the whole LU history, but it seems like JF did a nice job in separating TRBC and LU in the time since I've been here (since 2000).

I'm going to pause, let out a nervous cough and say No Comment.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure I know where your coming from either.

If your saying your nervous about the future....I can agree to that, heck who isnt nervous when your leader/founder passes....a lot can happen when someone else is calling the shots 40 years from now who doesnt have the passion and emotion invested in it. I'd buy that...I just dont see it happening as of right now...and believe me I'm the first to blow the whistle when I see something that would be to considered a "liberal" change and really there just havent been to many...


but I would like for you to elaborate not so we can blast you but just see what your thinking.

Okay. I will say that as recently as 2003/2004, if not more recently, most of the Falwell-founded institutions (LU, TRBC, The Godparent Home/FLS, The Elim Home, The Center, etc...) have to some extent fallen under the financial umbrella (although they may legally be separated) of JFM. This became more prevalent in 2002 when JFM executives once again took over Recruitment, pushing out the existing leadership. Money donated to JFM was going to support not just the many minstries of JFM, but also for the recruitment of new students to LU (for example, Admissions Counselors were yanked from their jobs and placed in the JFM call center to supervise JFM telemarketers in the conversion of inquiries to applicants, soliciting CFAW reservations, urging the submission of confirmation fees, etc). For better or worse, there has been a lot of money changing hands between the various entities over the years. That's pretty much all I know.

Your correct about JFM...and Dr. Godwin has done a good job of taking something that people thought is impossible and actually be able to show it as being profitable...that's not easy...although I'm not quite sure how falling under "one umbrella" could one day cause us to become Oral Roberts...thats where I'm not making the connection

Hold My Own wrote:Your correct about JFM...and Dr. Godwin has done a good job of taking something that people thought is impossible and actually be able to show it as being profitable...that's not easy...although I'm not quite sure how falling under "one umbrella" could one day cause us to become Oral Roberts...thats where I'm not making the connection

Sorry for the confusion. I was just answering Fumble's claim that JF did a nice job in separating TRBC and LU since 2000. In fact, they have been anything but separate, especially since then. I didn't intend to comment on or draw comparisons to the Oral Roberts situation.

I'll add that I don't think separating the various Falwell entities was what Jerry ever had in mind. From everything I heard, especially from him, he wanted everything very much together.

Oh ok...I understand...in a sense they are under that umbrella you spoke of...although they are very much separate...at least in the board rooms....in fact I'd feel more comfortable if we relied on TRBC more when coming to Bible type decisions and not just campus pastors...I really like having a 3rd party coming in and not someone who may work for someone that's in that meeting.


I'm just glad to know you were not trying to connect the umbrella to how one day we'll become a scandal prone school...if anything I'd like to see that umbrella tighten up a little bit

mrmacphisto wrote:Okay. I will say that as recently as 2003/2004, if not more recently, most of the Falwell-founded institutions (LU, TRBC, The Godparent Home/FLS, The Elim Home, The Center, etc...) have to some extent fallen under the financial umbrella (although they may legally be separated) of JFM.

This is true, but you already differentiated us from Oral Roberts. Legal separation. LU falls under SO many federal regulations and rules that the rest of the ministries don't. We have to remain completely separate in terms of money. LU is out from under JFM financially. We have been for several years now. That was part of the Art Williams bailout and Jerry Jr.'s new financial direction for the school. Art had his folks look at our books and our reliance on donations to JFM proved to be our big problem. That all changed and it's a much different world now. (And why we're in the black.)

The rest of the entities fall directly under Jerry Falwell Ministies because, well, they're all Jerry Falwell Ministries. As far as ministry goes, they'll always be tied together. What happened at ORU isn't exactly the same, though.

Wow...the things you really learn on FlameFans. Thanks for the history lesson, guys.

El Scorcho wrote:LU is out from under JFM financially.

That's good to know, Scorcho. The financial intermingling that went on a few years ago seemed very loop-holey and barely legal to me, and I was never comfortable with that arrangement.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned these are the same people who gave up our North Campus.

And for the record, Mardel is an awesome Christian bookstore. If they ever expand toward you guys it will be a blessing.

I had no idea that they are the Hobby Lobby people.

mrmacphisto wrote:

El Scorcho wrote:LU is out from under JFM financially.

That's good to know, Scorcho. The financial intermingling that went on a few years ago seemed very loop-holey and barely legal to me, and I was never comfortable with that arrangement.

Now that i will agree with as well.

Maybe the Hobby Lobby people can bail out Tennessee Temple University next: somebody give them Danny Lovett's phone number down there in Chattanooga.

Hmmmm....thought about sending Mr. Green a email asking if he'd consider that....then I remembered who that school is being run down by

Hold, maybe they could swing a deal: provide money to bail the school out if it promises to get a NEW president.

Cider Jim wrote:Hold, maybe they could swing a deal: provide money to bail the school out if it promises to get a NEW president.

Theres no doubt something needs to be done...Alums are really scared for the future of the school....maybe Dr. Borek can help bail them out....that man is a big part of why we are where we are today...and he and Danny are BFF