A Sea Of Red

http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/n ... igaychurch

Jury Awards Father $11M in Funeral Case

BALTIMORE —

A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Marine Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The federal jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

The defense said it planned to appeal, and one of the church's leaders, Shirley Phelps-Roper, said the members would continue to picket military funerals.

"Absolutely; don't you understand this was an act in futility?" Phelps-Roper said.

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders _ Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Phelps-Roper and Rebekah Phelps-Davis, 46 _ were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

The group is confident the award will be overturned on appeal, Phelps said

"Oh, it will take about five minutes to get that thing reversed," he said.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.

It was unclear whether the plaintiffs would be able to collect the damages awarded.

Before the jury began deliberating the size of punitive damages, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted that the size of the compensatory award "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court.

Defense lawyer Jonathan Katz said the church has about 75 members and is funded by tithing.

The defense attorney said that the assets of the church and the three defendants are less than a million dollars and that the compensatory award is about three times the defendants' net worth, mainly in homes, cars and retirement accounts.

One of Snyder's attorneys, Sean Summers, said he would tirelessly seek payment of the award.

"We will chase them forever if it takes that long," Summers said.

I applaud the court for this judgment

Who are these freaks?

against a fundamentalist Kansas church

My brother and I have talked about this recently. This word has completely changed meaning over the last few years. Since when does "fundamentalism" mean crazy? I think the term "Islamic Fundamentalism" has turned this into a dirty word. Combine that with the light BJU and LU are shed in and people have completely changed what this means.

unfortunately....they'll probably be able to get out of it somehow by declaring bankruptcy...

FlameDad wrote:Who are these freaks?

They're almost all products of one family. That would be the Phelps family.

My memory just kicked in...

These people are evil - have they ever been in the 'Burg?

they were there for the Doc's funeral.

FlameDad wrote:My memory just kicked in...

These people are evil - have they ever been in the 'Burg?

Dr. Falwell's funeral actually....

FlameDad wrote:My memory just kicked in...

These people are evil - have they ever been in the 'Burg?

Yeah, they've protested TRBC a few times and, of course, JF's funeral.

I am amazed that they haven't been taken out by somebody yet.
Their actions are unacceptable beyond description.
I love the story of the biker guys shielding a funeral service from these punks

Did they have any effect on Doc's service?

FlameDad wrote:Did they have any effect on Doc's service?

Not that I'm aware of. Some LU kids counter-protested and the Freedom Riders were there, just in case. I don't think that many of them showed up, though. I was there almost all day and never even saw them.

pretty sure I recall hearing only 1 or 2 showed up- sat across the street near the old Circuit City (?) and couldn't get near the place.

I have nothing but disgust for Westboro and Phelps. I would like nothing less than them to be publicly humiliated (over and over again), but I'm not sure if I am comfortable seeing people sue others for their feelings being hurt. I know little to nothing about law, but if someone can win millions of dollars because they didn't like someone sharing their opinion of them or their family, couldn't this thing cause even more petty lawsuits in the future? I'm really unsure of my opinion on this, so please help me on the road to enlightenment in this matter. (These type of cases and judgements probably happen all the time anyway)

by the way, I hope they bury that church, but I think we all know that it isn't going to happen.

There are legitimate ways to prosecute these freaks.
Creating a public disturbance, trespass on private property, slander, public safety issues, etc.

I would never advocte that their right to demonstrate be taken away apart from illegal activity

FlameDad wrote:There are legitimate ways to prosecute these freaks.
Creating a public disturbance, trespass on private property, slander, public safety issues, etc.

I would never advocte that their right to demonstrate be taken away apart from illegal activity

Unfortunately, the daughter of Fred Phelps who is now leading the charge is an attorney. They usually protest within the bounds of the law, which is why someone had to sue for emotional damages. I'm usually hesitant on those kinds of lawsuits, but if they exist for anything, it should be to make people like this pay. I don't think it's hard to believe that someone suffered by having these people protest their child's funeral.

belcherboy wrote:I have nothing but disgust for Westboro and Phelps. I would like nothing less than them to be publicly humiliated (over and over again), but I'm not sure if I am comfortable seeing people sue others for their feelings being hurt. I know little to nothing about law, but if someone can win millions of dollars because they didn't like someone sharing their opinion of them or their family, couldn't this thing cause even more petty lawsuits in the future? I'm really unsure of my opinion on this, so please help me on the road to enlightenment in this matter. (These type of cases and judgements probably happen all the time anyway)

by the way, I hope they bury that church, but I think we all know that it isn't going to happen.

I understand the petty lawsuit thing: but at the same time I think people deserve COMMON DECENCY and RESPECT. Imagine that was your son's funeral...yes I feel people are entitled to their beliefs (even if they are retarded), But is someone's funeral, obviously the most emotionally trying thing in a dad's life, the place to share this opinion publically? I think the suit has so many more angles and reasons than hurt feelings. I just can't believe people can be so heartless. Its unfortunate. What idiots.

El Scorcho wrote:

FlameDad wrote:There are legitimate ways to prosecute these freaks.
Creating a public disturbance, trespass on private property, slander, public safety issues, etc.

I would never advocte that their right to demonstrate be taken away apart from illegal activity

Unfortunately, the daughter of Fred Phelps who is now leading the charge is an attorney. They usually protest within the bounds of the law, which is why someone had to sue for emotional damages. I'm usually hesitant on those kinds of lawsuits, but if they exist for anything, it should be to make people like this pay. I don't think it's hard to believe that someone suffered by having these people protest their child's funeral.

Reading on one of the hundreds of sites concerning the Phelps brood, that of his 13 kids, 11 are lawyers and 3 kids claim that Freddy abused them and that he is a complete nut-job.

If I am not mistaken Fred Phelps attended BJU and was kicked out, I remember reading that when doing a search on BJU and it was under Wik for people who attended BJU

justagirl wrote:

belcherboy wrote:I have nothing but disgust for Westboro and Phelps. I would like nothing less than them to be publicly humiliated (over and over again), but I'm not sure if I am comfortable seeing people sue others for their feelings being hurt. I know little to nothing about law, but if someone can win millions of dollars because they didn't like someone sharing their opinion of them or their family, couldn't this thing cause even more petty lawsuits in the future? I'm really unsure of my opinion on this, so please help me on the road to enlightenment in this matter. (These type of cases and judgements probably happen all the time anyway)

by the way, I hope they bury that church, but I think we all know that it isn't going to happen.

I understand the petty lawsuit thing: but at the same time I think people deserve COMMON DECENCY and RESPECT. Imagine that was your son's funeral...yes I feel people are entitled to their beliefs (even if they are retarded), But is someone's funeral, obviously the most emotionally trying thing in a dad's life, the place to share this opinion publically? I think the suit has so many more angles and reasons than hurt feelings. I just can't believe people can be so heartless. Its unfortunate. What idiots.

I'm right on board with you in terms of Fred Phelps, but where do you draw the line? If a women coming out of an abortion clinic is offended by a group of church members who are protesting the clinic with a sign that says "abortion is murder", is she eligible for millions of dollars? An abortion can be argued as "the most emotionally trying thing" in a womens life.

belcherboy wrote:

justagirl wrote:

belcherboy wrote:I have nothing but disgust for Westboro and Phelps. I would like nothing less than them to be publicly humiliated (over and over again), but I'm not sure if I am comfortable seeing people sue others for their feelings being hurt. I know little to nothing about law, but if someone can win millions of dollars because they didn't like someone sharing their opinion of them or their family, couldn't this thing cause even more petty lawsuits in the future? I'm really unsure of my opinion on this, so please help me on the road to enlightenment in this matter. (These type of cases and judgements probably happen all the time anyway)

by the way, I hope they bury that church, but I think we all know that it isn't going to happen.

I understand the petty lawsuit thing: but at the same time I think people deserve COMMON DECENCY and RESPECT. Imagine that was your son's funeral...yes I feel people are entitled to their beliefs (even if they are retarded), But is someone's funeral, obviously the most emotionally trying thing in a dad's life, the place to share this opinion publically? I think the suit has so many more angles and reasons than hurt feelings. I just can't believe people can be so heartless. Its unfortunate. What idiots.

I'm right on board with you in terms of Fred Phelps, but where do you draw the line? If a women coming out of an abortion clinic is offended by a group of church members who are protesting the clinic with a sign that says "abortion is murder", is she eligible for millions of dollars? An abortion can be argued as "the most emotionally trying thing" in a womens life.

I know, I fear the precedent.

Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I certainly don't think this is the first time someone has sued for emotional damage and won, so I doubt it's setting any kind of precedent. The law seems to do a pretty good job of filtering these things.

I do think it's kind of a shame that we're passing laws against protesting at funerals, though. Because Phelps is 77 years old and I'd expect it won't be too very long before he kicks off. I wouldn't hate it if his family got back a little of what they're dishing out.

belcherboy wrote: If a women coming out of an abortion clinic is offended by a group of church members who are protesting the clinic with a sign that says "abortion is murder", is she eligible for millions of dollars? An abortion can be argued as "the most emotionally trying thing" in a womens life.

church members shouldn't be outside abortion clinics with those signs...its not loving at all...and absolutely against anything Jesus preached for while on this earth...while i think Abortion is murder, I view the Christians that protest outside these clinics in the same way I view the Phelps family....

thepostman wrote:

belcherboy wrote: If a women coming out of an abortion clinic is offended by a group of church members who are protesting the clinic with a sign that says "abortion is murder", is she eligible for millions of dollars? An abortion can be argued as "the most emotionally trying thing" in a womens life.

church members shouldn't be outside abortion clinics with those signs...its not loving at all...and absolutely against anything Jesus preached for while on this earth...while i think Abortion is murder, I view the Christians that protest outside these clinics in the same way I view the Phelps family....

I'm not talking about the rightness and wrongness of the above act, that certainly is debatable. I simply wonder what problems winning this type of lawsuit could bring.

belcherboy wrote:

thepostman wrote:

belcherboy wrote: If a women coming out of an abortion clinic is offended by a group of church members who are protesting the clinic with a sign that says "abortion is murder", is she eligible for millions of dollars? An abortion can be argued as "the most emotionally trying thing" in a womens life.

church members shouldn't be outside abortion clinics with those signs...its not loving at all...and absolutely against anything Jesus preached for while on this earth...while i think Abortion is murder, I view the Christians that protest outside these clinics in the same way I view the Phelps family....

I'm not talking about the rightness and wrongness of the above act, that certainly is debatable. I simply wonder what problems winning this type of lawsuit could bring.

ahhh...ok...point taken