A Sea Of Red

no, this is not a joke...there is really now a Godtube.com

Why in the world do Christians feel the need to make a "Christian" version of everything?? Why can't we just be in the world, but not of the world??

This is the dumbest thing ever...almost as dumb as Mypraize.com or whatever the heck its called

it's an easy base to market to.

LUconn wrote:it's an easy base to market to.

You mean pander to.

Since when is enterprising a bad thing? If its not your cup of tea then ignore it. But if they can tap into a hot market with a niche focus then I saw bully to them.

Sly Fox wrote:Since when is enterprising a bad thing? If its not your cup of tea then ignore it.

I plan to. Because I don't like being pandered to.

I agree with you. I won't be hanging out there but I don't have any problem with somebody working it for a buck.

whatever...its a dumb idea and will fail soon much like mypraize.com failed

Sly Fox wrote:...but I don't have any problem with somebody working it for a buck.

I kind of do. It's the same thing that bothered me about working in a Christian bookstore in high school. Get the Chinese to print "JESUS" on a plastic bracelet and sell it for $2 and it's somehow okay? There just seems to be something wrong about that to me. Selling educational and training materials is one thing, but I feel strange about segmenting entire markets just to sell to Christians.

I think the end result of it is profiting on the name of Christ and enabling Christians in America to live in a bubble that further separates them from a culture they're already clueless about. Basically, it enables them to be neither in or of this world. Just my two cents, but it's long been a pet peeve of mine. God put us in the kitchen for a reason. Let's not build a refrigerator because we can't stand the heat.

El Scorcho wrote:It's the same thing that bothered me about working in a Christian bookstore in high school. Get the Chinese to print "JESUS" on a plastic bracelet and sell it for $2 and it's somehow okay? There just seems to be something wrong about that to me. Selling educational and training materials is one thing, but I feel strange about segmenting entire markets just to sell to Christians.

I think the end result of it is profiting on the name of Christ and enabling Christians in America to live in a bubble that further separates them from a culture they're already clueless about. Basically, it enables them to be neither in or of this world. Just my two cents, but it's long been a pet peeve of mine. God put us in the kitchen for a reason. Let's not build a refrigerator because we can't stand the heat.

Scorcho you just said exactly what I was thinking in my head but could not convey in words...thanks...its a dumb idea and i am sure it will fade away soon

El Scorcho wrote: I think the end result of it is profiting on the name of Christ and enabling Christians in America to live in a bubble that further separates them from a culture they're already clueless about. Basically, it enables them to be neither in or of this world. Just my two cents, but it's long been a pet peeve of mine. God put us in the kitchen for a reason. Let's not build a refrigerator because we can't stand the heat.

Kind of like, oh let's see, Liberty University?

Honestly, how is this that much different than what we do every day? Is Liberty not a "Christian version" of something? Is Jerry not on TV every night hawking something to his specifically Christian audience? Maybe it bothers some but it's not really right or wrong. It's just marketing.

RagingTireFire wrote:Kind of like, oh let's see, Liberty University?

Liberty University is a non-profit educational institution. We're not here to isolate anyone from the culture, but rather to train them how to be relevant to it, reach it and hopefully make an impact on it. Liberty is not a "version" of anything. It IS a university that is offering an education (and an experience) that can be had at few other places, if any. We are unique. We're not out to copy anything in terms of the education that we provide.

Comparing education to raw capitalism is not at all the same, in my opinion. The former is service-oriented while the later is purely profit driven.

I do see how it could be argued that by coming to LU, some kids could avoid their culture and choose to isolate themselves, but it's a personal matter of maturity and preparedness, if you ask me. I chose Liberty because I was a public school kid who never had the benefit of a Christian education, outside of my youth group. I wanted to come to LU for the education not to run away from the culture I live in.

But again, we're talking about the difference between educating kids and letting American adults exist in their evangelical bubble. Big difference, to me.

I'm not saying Liberty doesn't serve a specific purpose. I just don't see how you can criticize people for putting themselves in a quasi-isolated "bubble" when that's exactly what Liberty is.

In terms of "raw capitalism", I was speaking less to the marketing of an education and more to the marketing of all the other Christian-specific products that end up being offered for sale on The Liberty Channel or in convocation. Books, tapes, videos, pins, etc., Anybody remember the $200 commemorative coin? All I'm saying is that there's little if any difference between that and GodTube.

RagingTireFire wrote:I'm not saying Liberty doesn't serve a specific purpose. I just don't see how you can criticize people for putting themselves in a quasi-isolated "bubble" when that's exactly what Liberty is.

I disagree. I think that if you want Liberty to be a bubble, you can make it that, certainly. It's completely up to each individual as to how much they let that be true, though.

I can criticize people because as Christians, it is our mission to be involved with and interacting with the culture around us. That goes back to the "in but not of" quote that I was addressing to begin with. I don't see that happening. I think that too many Christian circles are making a neither in or of situation. If Liberty is a bubble, it's because people like that are sending their kids here with the wrong idea of what it's design to be. I don't think it's intended to isolate anyone from anything by providing a bubble. It's simply suppose to provide an education so that kids can get out into the culture and make an impact.

As for all of the stuff being sold, I have no problem with books, materials, education related stuff, etc. I don't know anything about commemorative coins. What were they of? Were the commemorating Jesus in some way? Or were they commemorating something having to do with LU or TRBC? That makes a difference. I don't think fundraising for ministries is quite the same as what I was saying either.

I don't think I'll make any headway with what I'm trying to say. I'm pretty sick of "Christian" this and that, when it comes to products being put out on the market, though. I've seen everything from jump ropes to protein shakes sold in the name of Christ, for no other reason than to put a buck into someone's personal bank account. That's where I have a problem.

I remember the coins. They were to commemorate LU's 25th anniversary in the late 90's. As I recall, Jerry offered them to LU students in convo first but, as stated above, they were $200 a pop. That's the only instance I can think of when Liberty students laughed at something Jerry said that he didn't intend as a joke.

Personally, I agree with Scorchy here. There's certainly a difference between fundraising and "raw capitalism". I'm tired of people trying to get me to buy stuff because it's "Christian", whether it's life insurance or diet plans. If somebody gives me their business card and it's got a dove or a fish on it, I chuck it. If I'm going to hire a plumber, it's going to be b/c he's a good plumber and not b/c we might have the same views on Calvin and predestination. To be totally honest, the fact that there's such a thing as a Christian bookstore chain (yes, I'm looking at you, Lifeway), kind of bugs me a little bit but I can't say definitively that I have a problem with it. (If they didn't have such good prices, I might certainly have a problem with it. )

it's called a niche folks. You're just providing a service that people want.

El Scorcho wrote: I disagree. I think that if you want Liberty to be a bubble, you can make it that, certainly. It's completely up to each individual as to how much they let that be true, though.

I can criticize people because as Christians, it is our mission to be involved with and interacting with the culture around us. That goes back to the "in but not of" quote that I was addressing to begin with. I don't see that happening. I think that too many Christian circles are making a neither in or of situation. If Liberty is a bubble, it's because people like that are sending their kids here with the wrong idea of what it's design to be. I don't think it's intended to isolate anyone from anything by providing a bubble. It's simply suppose to provide an education so that kids can get out into the culture and make an impact.

I'm not talking about intent, I'm talking about reality. Regardless of why people come here and what the intention is, any time you have a large group of people that overwhelmingly share the same basic moral and social values and ideas and that share the same physical space, you create a sociological bubble. That's not a phenomenon that's limited to LU. The Microsoft campus, Nike, the "inside the beltway" US government, even the Branch Davidians are examples of what I'm talking about. It's not a good thing or a bad thing. It's just a reality of social behavior.

As for merchanidising Christianity, I see your points but where do you draw the logical line? Even when items are sold as fundraisers, not every cent of the purchase price is going to the intended cause. Some goes to sales tax, some goes to shipping costs, some goes to advertising costs, some goes to production costs, etc., I'm pretty certain that all the people operating "down the chain" as it were aren't doing their jobs out of the goodness of their hearts. They have families to feed and pools to put in just like the guy selling corn dogs in the mall. To me, there's no hard and fast line that I can draw between trading on the name of Christ for profit and trading on the name of Christ for the sake of the cause. For all I know, the "profiteers" are tithing off of their earnings and who's going to argue with where that money came from? Like Foxy said, if you don't like it, don't patronize.

RagingTireFire wrote:Like Foxy said, if you don't like it, don't patronize.

I don't. Ever since I quit working at Family Christian Stores (called Family Bookstores at the time), I decided I would quit giving any money to such places. They did a number of things I didn't like, including what I previously I mentioned. That was among the worst, but not the sole worst thing I saw while working there. In addition to that kind of thing, I also saw them do silly things like purposely shorten the company president's name from Leslie to Les on printed materials so that the general public wouldn't think they were dealing with a woman. Cause you know, having a woman running a company would definitely offend some of their customer base. I guess I'm just easily bothered.

El Scorcho wrote: I guess I'm just easily bothered.

You strike me as an idealistic fellow, Scorchy. That's not a bad trait to have, especially if you're a parent. It's certainly not the easiest trait to have either.

It's true. I'm idealistic almost to the point of naievity sometimes. I just always hope for, and push for, the best. It can be a hard way to live, yes.

For the record, Scorcho, you're my favorite person on here to argue with. (Yeah, I'm sure that makes you proud.) We might disagree but, at least, your arguments actually make logical sense.

RagingTireFire wrote:For the record, Scorcho, you're my favorite person on here to argue with.

Hey! I'm arguing with you, too.

Yeah, but you suck.

I hate you. 'Cuz I'm so angry.