A Sea Of Red

This topic isn't meant to be devisive anyway, I just enjoy talking about christian vs. public education and the benefits of private collegs.
I've heard a lot of speculation about Liberty's future enrollment and all these grandiose plans, and I can't help but wonder how accurate all of the hype is. During my college search,Liberty was on my final list, which included Mars Hill and Samford. The primary reasons that I opted for Samford were its organization, its size (about 3,500- not too large, not too small) and its commitment to maintaining high academic standards.( I was accepted to Samford with the condition of academic probation during first semester). I'm aware of the fact that LU has made a few campus upgrades, but when I was there for CFAW and when I toured it a second time with my parents, I simply felt like I was at a summer camp rather than an actual university.
I'm not trying to offend anyone when I say that, and I'm the strongest advocate of christian colleges that you will find. I met some really nice people on that campus.
I was simply wondering if everyone on here thinks the college should focus more on raising the academic standards rather than expansion of undergrad enrollment. (I know they're not always mutually exclusive). Samford will be right at 5,000 undergrad next year, and they intend to stick at that. Basically, I would compare your college's future to Baylor and ours to Furman (Though many would argue, we're already at that level, see http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/colleg ... _brief.php
What I'm really getting at is, do any of you think it's really possible to - 1. Establish truly christian atmosphere in a campus w/ over 10,000 students 2. Create and Maintain high academic standards within that university. 3. Attract the nation's brightest, christian graduates?
I fear that by the time I have kids and they're old enough to attend college, they won't be able to afford a quality, christian college education.

I visited Samford when I was mulling college choices, and I chose not to go there because of there lack of commitment to authentic christianity. The feel I got from Samford is that if you want it it's here, but if not don't worry about it.

also, probably not the right spot for this topic.

1) Yes
2) Yes
3) Yes

May I ask why you didn't get the impression that we weren't committed to "authentic" christianity? Was it because we only required a total of 64 convos? Just out of curiosity, what were some of the other colleges on your list?

It's a shame that Florida is so devoid of quality christian schools. Also, if you guys want me to move this to another forum, please point me in the right direction, cause i'm new to all of this.

1. Establish truly christian atmosphere in a campus w/ over 10,000 students?
2. Create and Maintain high academic standards within that university?
3. Attract the nation's brightest, christian graduates?

I'd be curious how Samford's Honors Program compares to ours at LU. We will have 525 students in the program in the fall with over 30 National Merit Finalists (the top half of the top 1% of PSAT scores nation-wide). And LU has just increased the Honors scholarship from $3,500 to $3,750 annually (or $15,00 over 4 years). In addition, National Merit Finalists get a full tuition, room, & board scholarship.

In recent years, we have attracted students with a perfect 36 ACT and a perfect 1270 SAT.

hoopsmalone wrote:May I ask why you didn't get the impression that we weren't committed to "authentic" christianity? Was it because we only required a total of 64 convos? :D Just out of curiosity, what were some of the other colleges on your list?

I looked at Palm Beach Atlantic University, Samford University, and LU. PBA and Samford both seemed to me to be Universities in a Christian tradition. While there were opportunities to impact the kingdom of God, you had to look for them, while at Liberty they everything that is done is to advance the Kingdom of God. The students that I came into contact at Samford almost seemed to apologize for what kind of spirituality that was ther, and assured me that it would not affect my education, which is what I was looking for.

hoopsmalone wrote:During my college search,Liberty was on my final list, which included Mars Hill and Samford.

My brother went to Mars Hill. If Samford is anything like Mars Hill, you went to a Christian college about as much as a Princeton grad did.

I could see LU giving you that "summer camp" feel even as recent as 2000, but since then then, it has certainly changed into something completely different. You probably wouldnt even recognize it.

Cider Jim wrote:

1. Establish truly christian atmosphere in a campus w/ over 10,000 students?
2. Create and Maintain high academic standards within that university?
3. Attract the nation's brightest, christian graduates?

I'd be curious how Samford's Honors Program compares to ours at LU. We will have 525 students in the program in the fall with over 30 National Merit Finalists (the top half of the top 1% of PSAT scores nation-wide). And LU has just increased the Honors scholarship from $3,500 to $3,750 annually (or $15,00 over 4 years). In addition, National Merit Finalists get a full tuition, room, & board scholarship.

In recent years, we have attracted students with a perfect 36 ACT and a perfect 1270 SAT.

I don't have NMS stats on me, I'm sure they're listed somewhere on our website.I'm not trying to make this a liberty vs. Samford argument. I think the ideal christian university would be a hybrid of the two.
I know that almost every major publication that I've checked, from the princeton top 350, to Barrons guide and U.S. News and World Report (Which uses eight different factors into account, including graduation rate, % of freshman from top 25% of class, etc), all rank us among the best schools in the south region (Masters). US News and WR has included us in its top 15 each year for 15 or 16 consecutive years, and I've never found LU up there. Their latest one had had Liberty as fourth tier. We have an endowment of 280 million, a state of the art science center, Cumberland law school which has produced several governors, including current Fla gov Charlie Crist. We also have a great pharmacy school and our school of education (See Betsy Rodgers- named 2003 national the Teacher of the year by the whitehouse).
I think you can combine great education with a solid christian atmosphere, because I firmly believe Samford does that. I just hope for the day when there's a high-ranking christian college that's large enough to rival the state universities, the Wakes, Dukes and the Ivy Leagues.
On an interesting side note- My mom and brother, both duke graduates, received Bibles in the same hand with their diplomas. I thought that was an interesting final touch for a school that most consider as a liberal institution.

for someone who's not trying to make this a samford vs LU argument, you sure are making it hard not to get into that.

Mars Hill is a joke.

hoopsmalone wrote:It's a shame that Florida is so devoid of quality christian schools. Also, if you guys want me to move this to another forum, please point me in the right direction, cause i'm new to all of this.

Palm Beach Atlantic isn't a terrible Christian school...its very expensive...which is the only reason I didn't go there...They aren't quite a...ummm...I don't know the word....well, Liberty is more conservative I guess is the best way at putting it...but I wouldn't say they aren't a committed Christian college....just so freaking expensive

As for growth, I wish LU would stop expanding as fast as they are. There's no point in it. Let's get the infrastructure in, then expand. Not expand and hope the infrastructure is ready.

yeah...I think LU is heading in a good direction, but they need to slow the growth down a bit like you said SJ....but we all know Jerry has is dream and that is the way its going to be...

I have seen improvements acadmically in certain departments but I have also seen the communications department completely fall apart in my time here....

but yes SJ...they need to slow the growth down....and improve the buildings we already have before building new ones...

I also believe moving TRBC and LCA over was the biggest mistake...I didn't use to think so, but everytime I am in north campus there are little kids running around out track and other such thing....but that is for another thread i think....

the point is...slow down the growth...I agree with that thought 100%

LUconn wrote:for someone who's not trying to make this a samford vs LU argument, you sure are making it hard not to get into that.

I know you're angry and bitter about Uconn missing the big dance and even the Not Invited Tournament, but don't take that anger out on me

As for my post, like I said earlier, I was just curious about all the claims I heard (particularly the outrageous one about LU rivaling Notre Dame in the NEAR future) and I want to seperate fact from hyperbole. It just seems like once a christian college upgrades and expands, it tends to lose its christian heritage, I.E. Baylor, SMU, TCU (Maybe it's just a texas thing) and I wonder if you guys will be able to make that transition and succesfuly retain your christian virtues. I really hope you can, because I think it would be a great chance for young christians to advance in their careers.

you're right, the bigger you get the more trouble makers you get and the harder it is to maintain the Christian environment. But the Dorm leadership is supposed to break things down into smaller groups to keep the personal attention to your faith. Obviously our campus pastor cannot get a feel for 10,000+ students and where they are with their spiritual walk, but he can do so for a few hundred which can in turn do the same for 10 of their own etc. and it trickles down from there. Who knows if that can hold in tact for 25k.

hoopsmalone wrote:It just seems like once a christian college upgrades and expands, it tends to lose its christian heritage, I.E. Baylor, SMU, TCU (Maybe it's just a texas thing) and I wonder if you guys will be able to make that transition and succesfuly retain your christian virtues.

I guess I'd need you to clarify who you're referring to when you say "your" in that statement, before I could respond in full. If by "your" you mean the school, then I don't think that will ever be a problem. The school is structured such that they'll pull the plug on the entire thing before it loses the virtues it was founded on. I am aware that some feel it already has, but let's not confuse wearing a tie to class with a real virtue.

However, if by "your" you are referring to the student body on campus, I think it is inevitable that we will end up with a more diverse student body as the population grows. Most of the discussions I have been involved in regarding the direction LU should take always come back to if Liberty is a Christian university focused on training young Christians, or a school focused on training young people for Christ, regardless of their current relationship with Him. The former would make Liberty a much less colorful place (figuratively), but would probably result in an easier life for everyone involved. The latter would mean the school will have to do a lot of work to convince Christians that because it accepts sinners, it is not necessarily sinful. I think that's unfortunate, but it seems to be true.

Palm Beach Atlantic isn't a terrible Christian school

And, according to Scar, they have one of the best basketball coaches in the country.

What I love is the elitist mindset coming from our friend from Samford. Let's get a few things straight.

1. You are CLEARLY aiming to compare/contrast Samford and Liberty... lets put the rest of the crap aside.
2. Samford intends to max out at 5k. Great. Congrats. That's not the vision of LU. That also isn't the vision of most state schools. You continue to look at Wake and Duke as a Model and we'll look at UVA, VTech, etc. as ours. Just b/c Samford wants to stay small and remain elitist under the guise of "Christian" doesn't make them better... it makes them small and 'christian'.
3. Samford was founded in 1841. Liberty founded in 1971. For someone from Samford to even have to compare our progress with Samford's is hilarious. Of course your endowment should be higher. Of course by now you'd better be able to point to some successful graduates... of course of course... NONE of that matters to people from Liberty. This is classic arrogance for NO reason.
4. You're just now getting to touch 5,000 students a year. That's remarkable? Let's admit only a handful of people and teach them to be elitist in their mindset?
5. Another reason I love LU is that 21% of our 10,000 students are 'non-white'. 10% of Samford's 4,500. Diversity is not a buzz word.

As the thread goes I'll continue adding more but those are off of the top of my head... Does LU need work... yeah... but that's a big part of the difference... the students who come to LU are difference makers... they aren't elitist in their mindset. Every year the student body changes and continues to grow...

Give LU time... it will certainly meet the expectations laid out. As for keeping our Christian heritage.. I do think we'll see a little swing in it but I promise you that the Alumni will begin to play a MUCH larger role in the direction of the school once Dr. Falwell enters heaven... He's said far too many times "If it ever gets liberal, burn it down." Will we face challenges? Yes. You know why? We're trying something that isn't safe. The students who could go a dozen other places but chose LU aren't interested in the easy way... when they leave LU they will be pumped up to take on the world... Give LU time... Or if we are comparing ourselves to Samford, give us another 94 years and we'll see which school is making more of an impact.

*flicking lights on and off*

fight! fight!! fight! fight!

Let's not blast this guy for just asking some questions and getting us to think. As a Grad of Liberty and a big supporter of what the vision of Liberty is. I also have some concerns about the growth and lack of educational focus I am seeing.

Liberty is lowering their standards of education to increase enrollment. That's not a secret. They have the philosophy, that everyone should have the opportunity to get a Christian education. I also agree with that, but at the same time as the student population grows, all I ask is that the Faculty, Services, Infrastructure grow also - and I'm not seeing that.

Good to have you on here HoopsMalone and do know that when the day is done - Liberty is a great school. I would send my kids here, and Liberty produces great people. But hey, let's face reality here folks - If you want to skate by here for 4 years - you can. Liberty is what you make it, if you want to learn and be challenged you can - Take a Dr. George class - you will learn, but so many people avoid him, because he's tough and you might have to study.

prototype wrote: Take a Dr. George class - you will learn, but so many people avoid him, because he's tough and you might have to study.

If you're a business major, he is unavoidable. I knew someone who thought he found a DLP loophole around Policy. He wound up in the class in the end.

prototype wrote:Let's not blast this guy for just asking some questions and getting us to think. As a Grad of Liberty and a big supporter of what the vision of Liberty is. I also have some concerns about the growth and lack of educational focus I am seeing.

Liberty is lowering their standards of education to increase enrollment. That's not a secret. They have the philosophy, that everyone should have the opportunity to get a Christian education. I also agree with that, but at the same time as the student population grows, all I ask is that the Faculty, Services, Infrastructure grow also - and I'm not seeing that.

Good to have you on here HoopsMalone and do know that when the day is done - Liberty is a great school. I would send my kids here, and Liberty produces great people. But hey, let's face reality here folks - If you want to skate by here for 4 years - you can. Liberty is what you make it, if you want to learn and be challenged you can - Take a Dr. George class - you will learn, but so many people avoid him, because he's tough and you might have to study.

Prototye- it's nice to see someone who can think rationally on here. As for tally, I'm not sure who peed in his cornflakes this morning, but he needs to chill. If he truly believes that listing facts is an "elitist mindset" I truly feel sorry for him.

Tally - 4. You're just now getting to touch 5,000 students a year. That's remarkable? Let's admit only a handful of people and teach them to be elitist in their mindset?

Ever heard of "Standards"? There are many reasons why quality is more important than quantity, especially when it comes to students.