[Libertine]

The article below is a Reuters article that's showing up in all sorts of news outlets. Apparently, some religious/family organizations are making a big stink about "Black Christmas", a slasher horror movie, premiering on Christmas Day.

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Moviegoers seeking a bit of seasonal entertainment are being offered blood and terror alongside Santa and his reindeer -- much to the horror of U.S. religious groups.

Movie studio Dimension Films has remade a cult hit from 1974 about a group of female students being terrorized by a killer during Christmas and is releasing the film, "Black Christmas," on December 25 -- tagging it as the "ultimate slay ride."

But religious groups have condemned the timing of the release of the R-rated slasher movie as tasteless and offensive.

"To have a movie that emphasizes murder and mayhem at Christmas, a time of celebration and joy around the world seems to be ill founded," said Mathew Staver, founder and chairman of Liberty Counsel, an organization dedicated to upholding religious freedom and traditional family values.

Jennifer Giroux, who co-founded Operation Just Say Merry Christmas as a way to reclaim the season for Christians, said it was abominable to release this film on Christmas Day.

"The use of religious music -- 'Silent Night' -- and the nativity set on the front porch in one scene are insensitive to Christians," Giroux said after watching the trailer online.

"It's not enough to ignore and omit Christmas, but now it has to be offended, insulted and desecrated. Our most sacred holiday, actually a holy day, is being assaulted."

But Dimension Films was unmoved. In a statement, the company said, "There is a long tradition of releasing horror movies during the holiday season as counter-programming to the more regular yuletide fare. 'Black Christmas' is a remake of a classic 1974 horror movie with a big cult following."

How did Staver get involved in this? I want more information. Is Staver representing someone suing Dimension or has Liberty Counsel devolved into nothing more than a Christian watchdog group w/ a legal degree?

[RubberMallet]

who cares...it looked horrible and i'm sure it will bomb...the people who made the movie will lose millions and millions of dollars....

[LUconn]

now THIS is embarassing. Everybody who went nuts about the W&M cross fiasco, has a pretty good argument that this is retarded.


We have now become what we've been making fun of for years.

[Hold My Own]

retarded or not, it has nothing to do with us...and luckily this article didn't stoop to the level of finding the 35th cousin to Liberty Council...Liberty University or Jerry Falwell

[bigsmooth]

people will make the connection eventually, let's be real here.

[Libertine]

I agree with both Mallet and LUConn. Unfortunately, Mallet, it won't bomb as badly as it should have because the family groups are giving it publicity!
As things stand, I'm not the biggest Matt Staver fan that there is here at LU, though I've been willing to give him the benefit of the doubt b/c of some of the good that Liberty Counsel has done in the past. That said, I really really hope that LC is representing someone w/ a frivolous lawsuit here. Otherwise, Staver is just throwing around public on-the-record comments about things that LC has absolutely nothing to do with and the kind of person who's OK w/ doing that is not a person who, in my mind, should be running a school of law.

[LUconn]

right, I'm not saying LU, but as christians in general. We've been making fun of muslim/atheist/jewish/insertethnicgrouphere pansies for years who complain people are being "insensative". If you don't like it, don't watch it and encourage your fellow believers not to. Don't whine to the media and claim you're being insulted and then your holiday is being "assaulted". It's just a freaking horror movie that takes place on christmas.

[Libertine]

retarded or not, it has nothing to do with us...and luckily this article didn't stoop to the level of finding the 35th cousin to Liberty Council...Liberty University or Jerry Falwell

Actually, I'm completely reversing my course on the whole "this (Liberty Counsel) has nothing to do with us" argument. There's been some evidence (anecdotal) brought to my attention in the last few days of significant changes within the law school since Staver took over as dean that have more or less merged the distinctive institutions of LU, Liberty Counsel and the LU School of Law into one semi-synonymous entity. The Liberty Counsel no longer represents Liberty University, it is Liberty University.

[TallyW]

This entire thread is a waste of time... did ANYONE read what he actually is quoted of saying... he said it is "ill founded".

That comment isn't whining about anything... he just basically said that it doesn't make sense. He didn't flip out or call for boycotts or say that they are hurting baby Jesus... he basically stated the truth... it's a bad idea to release a horror on Christmas day and to associate it with Christmas just seems dumb. I agree. I think the box office will agree to.

Guys, think about it... releasing it on Christmas day and keeping "Christmas" in the name is just stupid. Honestly on their end it would have been 1000 times better to release this right after Thanksgiving and have a build up to Christmas day. As it stands, who is going to watch a movie portraying Christmas killings after new year and the Christmas Tree is sitting by the side of the road waiting for the garbage man?

[RubberMallet]

this one is also guaranteed to come out on dvd "uncensored"...

[El Scorcho]

As it stands, who is going to watch a movie portraying Christmas killings after new year and the Christmas Tree is sitting by the side of the road waiting for the garbage man?

The same folks who go out for Chinese food on Christmas day?

[Sly Fox]

Hey, bless those Chinese restaurants for giving us somewhere to eat after watching the movie.

[LUconn]

This entire thread is a waste of time... did ANYONE read what he actually is quoted of saying... he said it is "ill founded".

That comment isn't whining about anything... he just basically said that it doesn't make sense. He didn't flip out or call for boycotts or say that they are hurting baby Jesus... he basically stated the truth... it's a bad idea to release a horror on Christmas day and to associate it with Christmas just seems dumb. I agree. I think the box office will agree to.

Guys, think about it... releasing it on Christmas day and keeping "Christmas" in the name is just stupid. Honestly on their end it would have been 1000 times better to release this right after Thanksgiving and have a build up to Christmas day. As it stands, who is going to watch a movie portraying Christmas killings after new year and the Christmas Tree is sitting by the side of the road waiting for the garbage man?

Did you read the article or did you just read the part in yellow? It's not just him, it's that chick too. The problem isn't with LC, even though that's kinda how the thread was set up. It's with supposed Christian leaders who make dumb comments. Staver's may be tame but this other lady was definatly whining.

[Libertine]

This entire thread is a waste of time... did ANYONE read what he actually is quoted of saying... he said it is "ill founded".

That comment isn't whining about anything... he just basically said that it doesn't make sense. He didn't flip out or call for boycotts or say that they are hurting baby Jesus... he basically stated the truth... it's a bad idea to release a horror on Christmas day and to associate it with Christmas just seems dumb. I agree. I think the box office will agree to.

His quote was made in the context of family group whining, therefore it's whining. Honestly, who's really asking Matt Staver's opinion on movies? Either he's involved in some action here and made the comment as part of that or he and LC released it as a statement to the media. Which one of those doesn't bother you?

In point of fact, it's a great idea to release a horror movie on Christmas Day. Studios know that, historically, Christmas is one of the biggest days of the year in terms of theater attendance and that horror movies are typically one-shot deals where they make all the money they're going to make in the first week of release. Throw in the counter-programming angle -- you couldn't shoot me in the head and drag my corpse to see 'Night at the Museum', thank you very much -- and horror movies come out fairly often around Christmas. This movie still won't be a big smash but I'd bet it takes in a little extra thanks to the publicity generated by the whiners (Staver included).

[thepostman]

we are in a war on christmas guys!! don't you understand...I mean people are saying Happy Holidays at Best Buy instead of Merry Christmas!! I mean so what if there are multiple holidays like new year, Christmas, Thanksgiving, and Hanukkah (they buy gifts too)....who cares about all of that, its a war on Christmas!! We must fight the good fight!!!

In all seriousness...I hate when people jump all over stuff like this....movies, books, organizations...whatever is the taste of the moment....And this movie is far from the taste of the moment...it now will make a little more money because of this...good job....I wish the church would stick with preaching the gospel and loving people and stop this public display of stupidity...if the church was doing everything they should be things wouldn't be nearly as bad...plus the world is acting exactly like they are suppose to be acting, its just so rediculous...

[El Scorcho]

I wish I was in Cancun right now.

[Libertine]

I wish I was in Cancun right now.

Duly noted.

[Fumblerooskies]

This should eliminate any doubt about a direct connection...
...The following is at the end of the countless emails they send out to everyone on the mailing list:

Liberty Counsel, with offices in Orlando, Florida, and Lynchburg, Virginia, is a nonprofit litigation, education and policy organization dedicated to advancing religious freedom, the sanctity of human life and the traditional family. On the campus of Liberty University School of Law in Lynchburg, Virginia, Liberty Counsel's Center for Constitutional Litigation and Policy trains attorneys, law students, policymakers, legislators, clergy and world leaders in constitutional principles and government policies.

[El Scorcho]

I never debated that the two weren't directly connected, as they have offices on our campus. My point was always that Liberty Counsel is not the legal arm of Liberty University, and Liberty University does not direct them on which cases to take or not take. Whether the outside world can understand that or not was also not my point. I'm just trying to establish the facts here. Liberty University has it's own Legal Affairs department.

[TallyW]

Been away for a while.... just getting back to the board today before eating dinner this afternoon and watching some TV tonight.


Staver is getting a bad rap on this article... you guys freaking out over it are painting him with a broad brush...

To answer a few things directed my way:
1. Did I read the whole article before I posted? Yes.
2. Did another woman say things in the article that were a little overboard? Sure.
3. Does that change my view that Staver's comments weren't what the reporter made them to be? No.

Staver's comments weren't out of line. The problem is that this reporter sandwiched his comments between the reporter's own commentary trying to characterize what he said "But religious groups have condemned the timing of the release of the R-rated slasher movie as tasteless and offensive."

ENTER MATT STAVER'S COMMENT

ENTER CRAZY WOMAN'S COMMENT

If you read the whole thing without thinking critically you surely will lump Staver's comment in with the rest of the story.... but if you actually just look at what HE said.... no commentary, no other quotes... then you'll see that his comments weren't out of line.


IN addition... I don't know that there are enough people eating Chineese on Christmas Day to make this movie a success. Someone report back on the box office numbers from this weekend when it's all said and done....

[Libertine]

Staver's comments themselves aren't what got my attention. Any half-rational person would have laid the exact same quote that he did. My concern is that Staver is being quoted on this at all. Who asked him? And, if they did, why?