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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#642973
JK37 wrote: June 15th, 2022, 8:55 am Any R candidate would do themselves a favor by distancing themselves from Trump. But the margins in many districts and nationally are so slim that they won’t take the risk of losing Trump supporters by doing so. Not for nothing, but I think the ones who did would sew up victory then and there.
If anyone wants the playbook here, look at Youngkin’s campaign in VA.
By lynchburgwildcats
Registration Days Posts
#642975
rtb72 wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:00 pm They need to start putting these political dramas (aka hearings) on the Sci-Fi channel. Regardless of party, they're saturated with nothing more than grandstanding ideologues who lean on conjecture and hyperbole to "motivate" their base. I would hope the populace would one day grow tired of the theatre....but I guess so long as their are those who live, breathe, and embrace this stuff....both sides will do it. I'm hopeful we can see a new focus if there are changes in November, but I'm sure the Repubs will dig stuff up to have "hearings" on the left. Meanwhile, regular people will continue to struggle to afford gas, food, and negotiate a hopeful retirement. The vast majority of them are so far out of touch...it'll take a generation to get things somewhat "representative" again.
Nothing is going to change as long as we continue to allow gerrymandering, don't significantly reform campaign financing, refuse to enact term limits, etc.

The parties just gerrymander states to the point where many districts are so uncompetitive that any whack job on the left or right will win because people are just going to vote for the R or D beside the name. Then the only way they get out of office is if they continually screw up left and right outside of the job (Madison Cawthorn) or retire/take another job.
Last edited by lynchburgwildcats on June 15th, 2022, 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
By rtb72
Posts
#642976
lynchburgwildcats wrote: June 15th, 2022, 11:25 am
rtb72 wrote: June 14th, 2022, 12:00 pm They need to start putting these political dramas (aka hearings) on the Sci-Fi channel. Regardless of party, they're saturated with nothing more than grandstanding ideologues who lean on conjecture and hyperbole to "motivate" their base. I would hope the populace would one day grow tired of the theatre....but I guess so long as their are those who live, breathe, and embrace this stuff....both sides will do it. I'm hopeful we can see a new focus if there are changes in November, but I'm sure the Repubs will dig stuff up to have "hearings" on the left. Meanwhile, regular people will continue to struggle to afford gas, food, and negotiate a hopeful retirement. The vast majority of them are so far out of touch...it'll take a generation to get things somewhat "representative" again.
Nothing is going to change as long as we continue to allow gerrymandering, don't significantly reform campaign financing, refuse to enact term limits, etc.
I agree with you. Hence, the reason our present two party control paradigm will have a long, long, life. None of the above will be adopted by left or right. THAT is something they will always come together on....sadly.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#642981
stokesjokes wrote: June 15th, 2022, 10:21 am
JK37 wrote: June 15th, 2022, 8:46 am Tongue in cheek.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said of Trump “well, that’s not what he really meant,” when he said something terrible or ridiculous I’d have a lot of nickels. The testimony is that Trump said “he deserves it,” which doesn’t mean that Trump was actively looking to hang Pence, but it seems pretty clear that he wouldn’t have minded, since Pence had the gall to undermine his plans to overturn the election. That’s not tongue-in-cheek, that’s his MO of bullying and intimidation. It’s textbook narcissistic abuse. Do exactly what he says or you’re dead to him and you’ll get what you “deserve.”

And PH, you don’t know much about TV do you? They can’t give everything away in the first episode or no one would watch the next one. Stay tuned to hear the actual testimony.
Well now you’re just changing your story. Because earlier you stated that es exactly what he said. Now you are backing off of your earlier statement. Which is to be expected. It’s been the MO of the Trump years. People make a claim about Trump only to walk it back. And yes, he DOES say a bunch of things tongue in cheeck. So if you don’t have a large collection of nickels that’s your own fault.
As for the Committee they needed to come out with something to grab the publics attention. Something they did not know. They gave you……lChris Stirewalt. Obviously a key Conspirator in the attempt to make the US a Trump Monarchy. :D
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#642984
stokesjokes wrote: June 11th, 2022, 9:27 am “I’d rather vote for the guy who said his Vice President deserved to be hanged than the people making a big deal about it.”
Nice try though, good effort. Too bad my old posts are readily available or you woulda had me.

And as far as the tongue-in-cheek bit, it’s tongue in cheek if you give him the most charitable interpretation each time. I don’t know what he’s done to earn that. Seems, again, like classic covering for abusers- “well, he didn’t really mean it that way” or “lighten up, it’s just a joke.”
By JK37
Registration Days Posts
#642986
stokesjokes wrote: June 15th, 2022, 1:27 pm
stokesjokes wrote: June 11th, 2022, 9:27 am “I’d rather vote for the guy who said his Vice President deserved to be hanged than the people making a big deal about it.”
Nice try though, good effort. Too bad my old posts are readily available or you woulda had me.

And as far as the tongue-in-cheek bit, it’s tongue in cheek if you give him the most charitable interpretation each time. I don’t know what he’s done to earn that. Seems, again, like classic covering for abusers- “well, he didn’t really mean it that way” or “lighten up, it’s just a joke.”
Hmm, seems you can do the same thing.
Tongue in cheek. Very poor taste. And not properly representative of the esteemed office he held at the time. And wrong to be sure. But not the same as what’s being purported.
You did the same to me as you claim PH did to you. We CAN be friends. I THINK we’re on the same side of this. But if you keep comparing those trying to be explicitly literal, to those who excuse abusers - you’re losing ground unnecessarily. Just like liberal Dems who are so gosh darn awful at this strategically.

There’s PLENTY to use against Trump. He is the gift that keeps giving. You don’t have to deviate from the verifiable.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#642988
Yeah, I get that it comes across as harsh, just seems like the most relevant framework for Trump. If you see his words and actions through the lens of narcissistic abuse, everything clicks into place, right down to the minimizing you see from friends and family. Why choose to call it tongue-in-cheek? That’s deviating from the verifiable as well. What purpose does that serve other than to soften the harshness of his words?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#642990
stokesjokes wrote: June 15th, 2022, 2:48 pm Yeah, I get that it comes across as harsh, just seems like the most relevant framework for Trump. If you see his words and actions through the lens of narcissistic abuse, everything clicks into place, right down to the minimizing you see from friends and family. Why choose to call it tongue-in-cheek? That’s deviating from the verifiable as well. What purpose does that serve other than to soften the harshness of his words?
So in your mind you honestly believe Trump meant it when/if he supposedly said Mike Pence needs to be hanged? And therein lies the uncrossable divide. Trump has a history of speaking in hyperbole and tongue in Cheeck. It’s who he is, it’s never to be confused with policy. That’s where the huge disconnect arises. You think these obvious unserious statements are actual policy directives. @JK37 is closest when he says they are inappropriate but he takes them for what they actually are!
In the meantime everyone is just ignoring the actual false claims the current President is making in order to get Policy past. Just take a look at what he said monthly child care costs. The dude is gone mentally and Jill and her cadre have a special place in hell for what they are doing
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#642991
Nope, you’re changing my words. I believe Trump meant it when he said Pence deserved to be hanged, he didn’t say he needed to be hanged. I see the same divide you do, but obviously I would frame it differently. I think Trump means what he says, you don’t. Well, not even that far- I think you believe Trump means a lot of things he says. But when Trump says something beyond the pale, your instinct is to frame it as “obviously unserious” or “hyperbole and tongue in cheek.” It’s a defense against criticism. “He means the things he says when it’s something I can get behind, but when he says something crazy he’s just joking.”
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#642992
stokesjokes wrote: June 15th, 2022, 4:44 pm Nope, you’re changing my words. I believe Trump meant it when he said Pence deserved to be hanged, he didn’t say he needed to be hanged. I see the same divide you do, but obviously I would frame it differently. I think Trump means what he says, you don’t. Well, not even that far- I think you believe Trump means a lot of things he says. But when Trump says something beyond the pale, your instinct is to frame it as “obviously unserious” or “hyperbole and tongue in cheek.” It’s a defense against criticism. “He means the things he says when it’s something I can get behind, but when he says something crazy he’s just joking.”
Explain the difference between ‘he deserved to be hanged’ and ‘ he needed to be hanged’? Cause there’s not a whole lot of difference in my book.
And you of course are absolutely incorrect. You’re first statement is correct but then, like normal you change your mind to fit your narrative. You take Trump literally. You are not alone. It’s gotta be a frustrating life for use. I just know the difference between shot and shinola with him. You can’t. That’s all it is. He is upset and mad with Pence. He certainly doesn’t want him hanged nor does he think he deserves to be or whatever parsing you are going to do now.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#642997
I don’t think Trump had an active objective of hanging Mike Pence. I think if the crowd had actually done it, Trump would have thought he got what he deserved. That’s a big difference to me.

And I don’t doubt that you think you know the difference between his shot and and shinola, but I think you’re making that assessment based on your own reasonableness and ethics, which I guarantee you he does not share. It’s convenient to dismiss all the crazy stuff as shot, it eases the cognitive dissonance. That doesn’t mean your assessment is correct.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643001
stokesjokes wrote: June 15th, 2022, 6:37 pm I don’t think Trump had an active objective of hanging Mike Pence. I think if the crowd had actually done it, Trump would have thought he got what he deserved. That’s a big difference to me.

And I don’t doubt that you think you know the difference between his shot and and shinola, but I think you’re making that assessment based on your own reasonableness and ethics, which I guarantee you he does not share. It’s convenient to dismiss all the crazy stuff as shot, it eases the cognitive dissonance. That doesn’t mean your assessment is correct.
Here’s where I stand by my assessments. He hasn’t done any of the crazy tongue in Cheeck things he’s been criticized for saying. Unless he’s written a check to buy Greenland I don’t know about or goodness knows a myriad of other things. Heck people literally though Trump was going to build a literal brick and mortar wall across the Southern border. I’ve been on record since the beginning regarding his hyperbole and manner of speech. You are once again wrong in your assessment that I assign the same moral compass to myself and Trump. What I do know is how individuals like him communicate. It’s why I don’t pay attention to half of it or laugh at it cause it’s funny
All of which continues to distract from the current holder of the Oval Office who has been caught red handed at every level asking factual and verifiable false claims about his back ground. And who continues to make up false claims that are objectively refuted to push forward policy. THAT is much more dangerous IMO than a known self aggrandizer who speaks hyperbolically
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#643003
So what I am getting is, that it doesn't really matter what the President says or does as long as there is policy agreement. So who cares, right? Am I following your line of thinking?
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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#643004
PH, listen to all his former advisors and cabinet members. He didn’t do the crazy things because they spent all their time talking him out of the crazy things, not because he didn’t mean them. I stand by my assertion that you’re projecting onto him. You think buying Greenland or building a brick and mortar wall are ridiculous ideas so you assume Trump does too.

You’re wrong, though, on both examples you gave. Does this sound like someone who is “unserious” about the idea?:

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/19/75227465 ... -greenland

Trump literally worked on building a brick and mortar wall, got 455 miles of it done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall?wprov=sfti1

And, back to the original “tongue-in-cheek” claim, you’re telling me the guy, who, when Colin Powell died, released an official statement that might as well have said “good, he deserved it” wouldn’t be serious about sharing the same sentiment towards his VP who just, in his mind, betrayed him? You’re giving him the benefit of the doubt because you’ve gotta support and defend your decisions, let’s not pretend it’s because you’ve got some kind of special insight into the guy.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643007
thepostman wrote: June 16th, 2022, 7:47 am So what I am getting is, that it doesn't really matter what the President says or does as long as there is policy agreement. So who cares, right? Am I following your line of thinking?
Says? Not necessarily. Does? That’s what absolutely matters.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643008
stokesjokes wrote: June 16th, 2022, 8:28 am PH, listen to all his former advisors and cabinet members. He didn’t do the crazy things because they spent all their time talking him out of the crazy things, not because he didn’t mean them. I stand by my assertion that you’re projecting onto him. You think buying Greenland or building a brick and mortar wall are ridiculous ideas so you assume Trump does too.

You’re wrong, though, on both examples you gave. Does this sound like someone who is “unserious” about the idea?:

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/19/75227465 ... -greenland

Trump literally worked on building a brick and mortar wall, got 455 miles of it done:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_wall?wprov=sfti1

And, back to the original “tongue-in-cheek” claim, you’re telling me the guy, who, when Colin Powell died, released an official statement that might as well have said “good, he deserved it” wouldn’t be serious about sharing the same sentiment towards his VP who just, in his mind, betrayed him? You’re giving him the benefit of the doubt because you’ve gotta support and defend your decisions, let’s not pretend it’s because you’ve got some kind of special insight into the guy.
Please show me the pictures of 450 miles of brick and mortar wall. Your article didn’t seem to include it.

Now you’re back to projecting the “might as well have said it” baloney yet you accuse ME of projecting. You seem to believe I think everything he’s ever said is awesome and great. Fine that’s you’re prerogative. You’d be wrong but considering you haven’t been right yet I’m not surprised
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#643014
I don't understand your point re: the wall. Are you saying he somehow wasn't serious about building it because of the materials they chose to use?

I'm using the Powell statement as context, not projecting anything. If you set the context of how Trump has spoken of people who have dared to cross him in the past, the statement after Powell's death being a particularly egregious example, what evidence would you have to suggest that his statement about Pence was tongue-in-cheek or unserious? The fact that you have assumed (without evidence) that other crazy things he's said in the past are also unserious?

It reads as classic diffusing of cognitive dissonance. You decide that Trump's character flaws aren't bad enough to keep you from supporting him based on his policies. When faced with evidence dissonant to that belief, you're psychologically motivated to protect the belief and dismiss the dissonant information. Deciding that he doesn't mean the crazy things he says is a great way to do that.
By rtb72
Posts
#643015
Trump is Trump. That's what he was before and after he was elected. He's never been a politician or even embraced many of the supposed characteristics one might assign or hope for in the like. He is an entertainer. He bloviates. He reads and plays to his audience. Half the mess he says I don't think he not only doesn't mean, but...I'm not sure he even believes it. He bloviates routinely and always has. It's his persona. I can see that and I've never sat down with the guy to have dinner....so I get where PH is coming from. Many of his "supporters" blow some of his crazy comments off, because...well....it's Trump. I'm not saying his comments in question or even past comments are without consequences, but he doesn't see it that way. He is playing to an audience...telling his "groupies" what he THINKS they want to hear in the moment, at that time. I agree he does not think about his language, and mainly I think it's because he's never had to. He has always operated throughout his life viewing the public forum via a very different lens. The reason he drew so many people to his rallies certainly wasn't because he was some talented personality, but because he was entertaining. People wanted to see what he said next. Also, just because someone supported his policies doesn't mean their making excuses for his flaws when they blow-off his comments. It just means they are separating the bull>>> from the things that matter most to them. Just like when folks like policies on the left. They may not agree or believe some of the outlandish stuff that comes from the politicians on the left, yet they don't dwell on it, because all-in-all it doesn't matter. It's the agenda they are aligned with....not the person or their comments.

Additionally, I think half the c$%p he said he did just to rile the left....and of course...most played right into it. To take everything he says seriously is to allow him to live in your mind rent free.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643016
stokesjokes wrote: June 16th, 2022, 12:52 pm I don't understand your point re: the wall. Are you saying he somehow wasn't serious about building it because of the materials they chose to use?

I'm using the Powell statement as context, not projecting anything. If you set the context of how Trump has spoken of people who have dared to cross him in the past, the statement after Powell's death being a particularly egregious example, what evidence would you have to suggest that his statement about Pence was tongue-in-cheek or unserious? The fact that you have assumed (without evidence) that other crazy things he's said in the past are also unserious?

It reads as classic diffusing of cognitive dissonance. You decide that Trump's character flaws aren't bad enough to keep you from supporting him based on his policies. When faced with evidence dissonant to that belief, you're psychologically motivated to protect the belief and dismiss the dissonant information. Deciding that he doesn't mean the crazy things he says is a great way to do that.
I always knew he was serious about building a ‘wall’ on the Southern Border. Go back and look at my posts. I also knew it wasn’t going to be an actual brick and or tar wall. That it was going to be more of a barrier and it was going to encompass a lot of technology and human assets etc. But you are the one who wants to take him literally. And you are not alone. There were those who honestly thought it was going to look like the Berlin Wall complete with barb wire and machine gun towers. Because after all he said ‘Wall’.
You’re correct. I don’t think Trumps character flaws outweigh his policy positions. That’s a judgement every voter has to make about every politician. Including those who voted for the current occupant of the Oval Office.
If you want to believe all the tongue in Cheeck stuff he says is his policy and all of his hyperbole is Gospel truth you will find plenty of company. It’s a small way to look at him and why you see more and more people entrenched in Trumps side. And more and more people tuning out the anti Trump rhetoric. But hey. You do you. The rest of the country, judging by the less than stellar J6 Emmy Produced Production reception they’ve given, has moved on.
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#643018
I'd argue that some of the people around him made sure his policy positions stay solid for the most part, it had little to do with Trump himself. Towards the end he had fired so many good people (and not some not so good) I don't know how much longer that would have lasted.

I just wish everybody could move on from Trump. Neither party seems interested in doing so. A lot of Republicans still love him and Democrats know the only reason why Biden won was that enough independents stopped supporting Trump. So they are hoping it remains that way.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643020
thepostman wrote: June 16th, 2022, 3:24 pm I'd argue that some of the people around him made sure his policy positions stay solid for the most part, it had little to do with Trump himself. Towards the end he had fired so many good people (and not some not so good) I don't know how much longer that would have lasted.

I just wish everybody could move on from Trump. Neither party seems interested in doing so. A lot of Republicans still love him and Democrats know the only reason why Biden won was that enough independents stopped supporting Trump. So they are hoping it remains that way.
I would not argue with your argument. He had 0 political pedigree and was 100% a Populist. He approached the Presidency like a CEO not a POL for better or worse. Republicans (some) love him because he was a great disrupter. Which is why Democrats and other Republicans despise and loathe him. The man tapped into
Something potent and Republicans ignore that at their peril. Guys like DeSantis and even Youngkin are threading the needle pretty well at the moment.
Trump policy and fight with out Trump personal baggage is the winning ticket for Republicans. People rejected Trump not his policies. Those that voted for Biden have to own their decision instead of blaming Trump
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#643023
So then you actually agree with stokes viewpoint more than I think you realize if you agree with my statement. It's easy to dismiss Trump's craziness as just words because he had people around him that pushed back. But that became harder and harder to find as he continued to fire people.

I didn't vote for Biden nor did I vote for Trump. I blame the republican party for continuing to prop Trump up for giving us Biden. Blaming Trump for this mess is too easy. The party had an out when he lost but instead of cutting his dead weight the RNC has continued to give in to him at every turn.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643026
thepostman wrote: June 16th, 2022, 6:53 pm So then you actually agree with stokes viewpoint more than I think you realize if you agree with my statement. It's easy to dismiss Trump's craziness as just words because he had people around him that pushed back. But that became harder and harder to find as he continued to fire people.

I didn't vote for Biden nor did I vote for Trump. I blame the republican party for continuing to prop Trump up for giving us Biden. Blaming Trump for this mess is too easy. The party had an out when he lost but instead of cutting his dead weight the RNC has continued to give in to him at every turn.
No. He thinks Trump was fine with Pence being hanged. I think that was just hyperbole and his typical way of speaking without substance. I think Trump through a lot of stuff out there in policy discussions to see if it was possible and was reigned in by those around him, just like other Presidents. Unlike other Presidents he had some pretty off the wall ideas. But most of the stuff he said and was taken to task for was utter nonsense. Several times (the Fine People hoax) he didn’t even say what they said he said. So yeah, I’m gonna be more focused on what he did then said. Or people say he said
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#643028
Well, if you’re following the hearings, you’d know that Pence and his chief of staff disagree with you. They believed that the words and actions of Trump were going to put Pence in physical danger and that Trump knew that and knowingly continued.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#643029
stokesjokes wrote: June 17th, 2022, 10:54 am Well, if you’re following the hearings, you’d know that Pence and his chief of staff disagree with you. They believed that the words and actions of Trump were going to put Pence in physical danger and that Trump knew that and knowingly continued.
Did Pence testify? I wasn’t sure if his COS did or not. Did he think Pence was going to be hanged? Cause you said Trump was ok with Pence being hanged. Now you’ve backed waaaay off of it. I’m just waiting to see where you land other than Orange Man Bad
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