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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641859
Purple Haize wrote: April 26th, 2022, 8:05 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 25th, 2022, 9:22 pm It will be interesting to see where he wants to set the standards. Obviously he’s not gonna let obscene violence or porn be posted, but what about violent threats? Violent rhetoric? Hate speech (and against who)? Any restrictions on Fake News©?
Define “fake news”? ……and that’s where the trouble starts. Hate speech? Maybe avoid racial slurs but that’s also hard to define. Violent rhetoric? A bit easier but still not easy.
Yep, it’s very tricky. The reality is that Twitter has to have standards and it’s not going to be as simple as people want it to be, nor is Musk going to be able to please everyone with them.

That’s how we got here in the first place. Everyone was clamoring for social media companies to do something about fake news, but what do you do when 35% of the country believes the fake news? Or when the president is the one pushing it?
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#641860
stokesjokes wrote: April 26th, 2022, 8:33 am but what do you do when 35% of the country believes the fake news?
Do you really believe that 35% of the country believe the narrative produced by Twitter over the last two years? :D
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641861
olldflame wrote: April 26th, 2022, 7:06 am He just doesn't like censorship. Amazing how that has come to be thought of as right wing
It just depends on what you’re talking about. I’ve said it before on here, but neither side seems to actually hold to free speech as an ideal. They want to be able to say what they want and for other people to say things they agree with, but they don’t want it for the other side.

For example, look at what’s going on at Disney right now. A private corporation is being punished by the government because the government doesn’t like things they’ve said. See also: state legislatures trying to pass speech code-style laws about CRT et al.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641862
SumItUp wrote: April 26th, 2022, 8:54 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 26th, 2022, 8:33 am but what do you do when 35% of the country believes the fake news?
Do you really believe that 35% of the country believe the narrative produced by Twitter over the last two years? :D
Depends on which Twitter algorithm you’re stuck in.

Did you guys read Jonathan Haidt’s article that’s been making the rounds? It’s a long read, but worth a look:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... el/629369/
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641863
35%? Then have more speech. Have that 35% convince the 65%. Or the 65% convince the 35%. It might not happen but I’ve always been a fan of addition and not subtraction. Expose these ideas you find “fake” for the World to see. Attempting to silence them only makes them a martyr.
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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641865
It sounds nice, but I’m increasingly convinced that people aren’t governed by reason (myself included). Social media algorithms have exacerbated this.

Actually, speaking of Jonathan Haidt, his “elephant and rider” metaphor is apt here. Basically, our brains are like an elephant with a rider on top. The elephant is our emotional brain and the rider is our logical brain. We think the logical brain is in charge, but that elephant is gonna go where it wants to go.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#641866
stokesjokes wrote:
Yep, it’s very tricky. The reality is that Twitter has to have standards and it’s not going to be as simple as people want it to be, nor is Musk going to be able to please everyone with them.

That’s how we got here in the first place. Everyone was clamoring for social media companies to do something about fake news, but what do you do when 35% of the country believes the fake news? Or when the president is the one pushing it?
That's the thing. A lot of people are thinking that Elon is going to come in and "rescue" Twitter. The thing that a lot of people don't realize is that most of the long-term issues with Twitter are apolitical and have existed long before issues with Trump or the labeling of "misinformation" in an age of Covid.

One of my student employees asked me yesterday, "Will this make Twitter less toxic or more toxic?"

I'm not sure how to respond to that.

If moderation of content is reduced, it could easily make it more toxic, reducing the appeal for advertisers to partner with Twitter and reducing the attraction to the platform for new users. A lot of people have stopped using Twitter due to the lack of moderation already.

I don't really use the platform (I tried and it's not for me), but I don't think it's as simple as a lot of folks are making it out to be.

Do you think he'll allow this account to stay? (He's already tried to pay the guy running it to shut it down and was denied)

https://twitter.com/ElonJet
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By SumItUp
Registration Days Posts
#641867
Yacht Rock wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:15 am
Do you think he'll allow this account to stay? (He's already tried to pay the guy running it to shut it down and was denied)

https://twitter.com/ElonJet
Maybe he spent $40 billion + just to remove that one account.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641869
stokesjokes wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:10 am It sounds nice, but I’m increasingly convinced that people aren’t governed by reason (myself included). Social media algorithms have exacerbated this.

Actually, speaking of Jonathan Haidt, his “elephant and rider” metaphor is apt here. Basically, our brains are like an elephant with a rider on top. The elephant is our emotional brain and the rider is our logical brain. We think the logical brain is in charge, but that elephant is gonna go where it wants to go.
It’s sounds like your solution then is to have less speech. My solution (and early indications are it’s Elon’s as well) is MORE speech. I don’t believe it’s gonna be a free for all in ways I’ve mentioned. I also hope there is a bit of a restriction on the language used. For instance “Vaccines are awesome “. Fine. “Vaccines are #%*# awesome “ not fine.
I’d love to see this be more of the virtual Town Square and less the Ministry of Information
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641870
SumItUp wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:26 am
Yacht Rock wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:15 am
Do you think he'll allow this account to stay? (He's already tried to pay the guy running it to shut it down and was denied)

https://twitter.com/ElonJet
Maybe he spent $40 billion + just to remove that one account.
Oh yeah. That dude is toast.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641871
Purple Haize wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:44 am
stokesjokes wrote: April 26th, 2022, 9:10 am It sounds nice, but I’m increasingly convinced that people aren’t governed by reason (myself included). Social media algorithms have exacerbated this.

Actually, speaking of Jonathan Haidt, his “elephant and rider” metaphor is apt here. Basically, our brains are like an elephant with a rider on top. The elephant is our emotional brain and the rider is our logical brain. We think the logical brain is in charge, but that elephant is gonna go where it wants to go.
It’s sounds like your solution then is to have less speech. My solution (and early indications are it’s Elon’s as well) is MORE speech. I don’t believe it’s gonna be a free for all in ways I’ve mentioned. I also hope there is a bit of a restriction on the language used. For instance “Vaccines are awesome “. Fine. “Vaccines are #%*# awesome “ not fine.
I’d love to see this be more of the virtual Town Square and less the Ministry of Information
Oh no, I’m not proposing a solution. I’m just saying I don’t think more speech fixes it. We’ve got more speech now than any time in history and look where it’s gotten us. Let everyone have their say, sure, I believe that’s a foundational principle, but I don’t see it making things better.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#641876
Free speech is not a complicated issue. When only certain orthodox beliefs are permissible, while opposing unorthodox beliefs are suppressed, then you have a free speech problem.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641877
paradox wrote: April 26th, 2022, 4:26 pm Free speech is not a complicated issue. When only certain orthodox beliefs are permissible, while opposing unorthodox beliefs are suppressed, then you have a free speech problem.
Yes but what if they say things that I don’t think are true!? Obviously Someone needs to monitor Those People
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#641878
You guys really buy into the falsehood of relative truth. I guess it must be those “alternative facts,” lol.

And free speech is complicated from a business perspective. Not for the government, but for businesses, which Twitter is.

Unless you’re trying to build a very niche product, most businesses have lines they don’t want to cross when it comes to what types of communication are associated with their brand.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#641879
oh ok, so we simply point out that people tend to have differing views and may not always agree and now we're Kelly Ann Conway.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641880
Yacht Rock wrote: April 26th, 2022, 5:55 pm You guys really buy into the falsehood of relative truth. I guess it must be those “alternative facts,” lol.

And free speech is complicated from a business perspective. Not for the government, but for businesses, which Twitter is.

Unless you’re trying to build a very niche product, most businesses have lines they don’t want to cross when it comes to what types of communication are associated with their brand.
There are Absolute Truths and there are Relative Truths. In a Public Square of a Free Society (which Twitter basically is) you should be able to have discussions about those.
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By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#641881
Lefties have decided the absolute truth for everyone. And the direct opposition to their ideology is absolutely hated, bigotry, falsehood, misinformation, and bad Alanis Morrisette videos.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641882
paradox wrote: April 26th, 2022, 7:10 pm Lefties have decided the absolute truth for everyone. And the direct opposition to their ideology is absolutely hated, bigotry, falsehood, misinformation, and bad Alanis Morrisette videos.
Absolute Truth-
Jesus Christ is LORD and Savior. Crucified on the cross to take the sins of the World. Buried and rose again on the 3rd Day. Ascended into Heaven and now sits on the Right Hand of the Father

Try putting that on Twitter without an argument

Killing someone in cold blood without provocation is wrong. Absolute Truth.
January 6 was an Insurrection. Not Absolute Truth
Hating someone because the color of their skin is wrong. Absolute Truth
COVID 19 did not come from a Chinese Lab. Not Absolute Truth.

Truth and Opinion/Belief sometimes get intertwined when discussing current events and pop culture.
By olldflame
Registration Days Posts
#641892
Despite the fact that no actual changes in day to day management or staffing have taken place yet, a number of popular conservative twitter accounts are reporting a sudden surge in followers, where they had been mysteriously stagnant for some time. Digital paper-shredding.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#641893
But, but, but....this is really about porn and intestines and gore. BTW...Musk is a liberal. It's just that he's a credible one. He also believes that free markets are a good thing.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#641895
paradox wrote: April 27th, 2022, 7:53 am But, but, but....this is really about porn and intestines and gore. BTW...Musk is a liberal. It's just that he's a credible one. He also believes that free markets are a good thing.
How can there be Free Speech if we can’t control it?
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#641900
Y’all are a mess. For a while we were having good, thoughtful conversation, but you just can’t help yourselves.
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