A Sea Of Red

thepostman wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 6:59 am The word woke has lost all meaning and the only people I hear using it now are conservatives trying to own the libs. It is a strategy to instill fear in people and it works. It works so well people aren't even realizing they are being worked. Just look at this thread. It is kind of sad but also fascinating from a psychological perspective.

Like lids are using the word "democracy ".

Wokes believe biological men can become women and then shower with your daughter after gym. They think Christians who beleive biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 women are homophobs. They think the USA is a fraud, belongs to native Americans, figuring out who was the original natives were should be fun? They think saving the nuclear family is not a worthy goal. They will fight to the death for legalized abortion. They think socialism trumps capitalism. I know I forgot a few.

Thanks for proving my point. Just fascinating.

paradox wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 12:53 am Sorry to say, that our good friend Stokes here, waisted all this precious time and energy, simply because he refuses to acknowledge the fact that such a description as WOKE exists, and people, do indeed, know what it means.

People use it in such different ways that it’s a useless term. For example, things that I’ve seen described as “woke”:

Criminal justice reform
Pronouns
Teaching the history of racism
The green M & M switching from go-go boots to sneakers

Now you tell me the coherence.

Also, I didn’t have much to do yesterday.

TH Spangler wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:15 am

thepostman wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 6:59 am The word woke has lost all meaning and the only people I hear using it now are conservatives trying to own the libs. It is a strategy to instill fear in people and it works. It works so well people aren't even realizing they are being worked. Just look at this thread. It is kind of sad but also fascinating from a psychological perspective.

Like lids are using the word "democracy ".

Wokes believe biological men can become women and then shower with your daughter after gym. They think Christians who beleive biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 women are homophobs. They think the USA is a fraud, belongs to native Americans, figuring out who was the original natives were should be fun? They think saving the nuclear family is not a worthy goal. They will fight to the death for legalized abortion. They think socialism trumps capitalism. I know I forgot a few.

Yep, catch-all for “things I don’t like.” If you don’t like something, just call it woke.

The way politicians use the word "race" makes me crazy. . As a Christian I see one race, originating in Eden. Then the bible speaks of family lines. One in particular He fell in love with and chose to use to show all family lines who He is.

You mean you think race is a social construct? Congratulations, you’re doing CRT!

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 9:19 am You mean you think race is a social construct? Congratulations, you’re doing CRT!

In the "story of the bible" the chosen family line has probably had to suffered most.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:47 am

TH Spangler wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:15 am

thepostman wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 6:59 am The word woke has lost all meaning and the only people I hear using it now are conservatives trying to own the libs. It is a strategy to instill fear in people and it works. It works so well people aren't even realizing they are being worked. Just look at this thread. It is kind of sad but also fascinating from a psychological perspective.

Like lids are using the word "democracy ".

Wokes believe biological men can become women and then shower with your daughter after gym. They think Christians who beleive biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 women are homophobs. They think the USA is a fraud, belongs to native Americans, figuring out who was the original natives were should be fun? They think saving the nuclear family is not a worthy goal. They will fight to the death for legalized abortion. They think socialism trumps capitalism. I know I forgot a few.

Yep, catch-all for “things I don’t like.” If you don’t like something, just call it woke.

Stokes, I'm not questioning your heart. You seem like a good guy. But I have to ask. Are you, for lack of a better term, a Christian subculture person? Raised in a conservative family. Exclusively in Christian schools. Work for Christian organizations. Socialize mostly with others from Christian backgrounds? Etc.

Even if the term means different things to different people, and this subjectivity renders the term itself useless - there can be value in understand what another means when they use it, getting to the thought behind it. If either side went there, meaningful dialogue could become possible.

paradox wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 10:13 am

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:47 am

TH Spangler wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:15 am

Like lids are using the word "democracy ".

Wokes believe biological men can become women and then shower with your daughter after gym. They think Christians who beleive biblical marriage is between 1 man and 1 women are homophobs. They think the USA is a fraud, belongs to native Americans, figuring out who was the original natives were should be fun? They think saving the nuclear family is not a worthy goal. They will fight to the death for legalized abortion. They think socialism trumps capitalism. I know I forgot a few.

Yep, catch-all for “things I don’t like.” If you don’t like something, just call it woke.

Stokes, I'm not questioning your heart. You seem like a good guy. But I have to ask. Are you, for lack of a better term, a Christian subculture person? Raised in a conservative family. Exclusively in Christian schools. Work for Christian organizations. Socialize mostly with others from Christian backgrounds? Etc.

Yes and no. Youth group kid, was into the subculture a good bit, but went to public school and have only ever worked in secular environments.

Thanks. Just trying to get a feel for your reference point.

So, how is the term used and applied in the mainstream today, regardless of its origin?

There are many ways to look at the world, but the Woke person, believes that there is only one correct way to view and interpret things. A Woke person goes all-in on the most prominent progressive social theories of the day. Their theories alone stand as the correct ones. They wanna get in your world and tell ya what to do and think. Commitment to activism and labeling people they disagree with are trademarks. Rarely is it said to someone's face, but something usually whispered under ones breadth, due to frustration.

That’s the whole point, it’s use and application depends on who is using it. In liberal spheres it means one set of things, in conservative spheres it means another. In conservative spheres I’ve seen it used broadly and amorphously, more of a general pejorative against anything that hints of being socially liberal. Your definition is specific enough, that just hasn’t been my experience of its use.

I get that. Some people have a tendency to overreact to any kind of change, and especially to anything that might be perceived as opposing their personal views or traditions.

You know, they say that George Wallace saw Communist conspiracy in everything. Apparently, it was his go-to interpretation. Notwithstanding, Communism did in fact exist in many places all over the globe. It just wasn't down in Alabama.

Christians distorting God's word to excuse their sins is more disturbing to me than non-Christians being into wokeisum.

Agreed. 100%

Wasn't really thinking Wallace in Christian terms. Did he even claim to be a believer? And if so, did anyone really take him seriously in that way?

thepostman wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 7:19 pm Agreed. 100%

LGBT community insist on doing it.

Huh?

He probably meant to use the word "Woke." But it really doesn't matter because it's indistinct. So by this measure it may actually be a term of endearment. Depending upon how it's used and who the user is. But then again, it could be something that's potentially offensive. There's no guarantee...except for the fact that it's clearly indistinct. So, go with that.

thepostman wrote: ↑February 2nd, 2022, 8:50 pmHuh?

Woke people distorting God's word to excuse their sins. But never mind, getting a little off topic.

The biggest concern for a Christian drifting toward the Woke camp, would be the baggage of a superior self-righteous attitude. It's an inextricable reality. They may check all the special theological boxes. But the attitude would be problematic. Same holds true for the hyper-fundy of yesteryear, and the few remaining dinosaurs among us.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 1st, 2022, 8:13 pm

paradox wrote: ↑February 1st, 2022, 7:04 pm

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 1st, 2022, 5:24 pm


Not Trump specifically, but tell me which side is banning books and restricting ideas in schools?

100% the Left

Oh, I guess the rash of CRT bans, legislation leading to removing MLK from Texas schools, etc was just a fever dream I had.

There's a big difference between banning books for 3rd graders and banning them in a public library. Many parents can get books at the library or buy those CRT books for their kids at Amazon. That doesn't mean they are appropriate for all kids of all types of parents, at that age. We don't let kids read pornographic books and many other things.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑February 1st, 2022, 8:38 pm Yes, using the power of the government to prevent certain ideas from being taught is authoritarianism, full stop. That’s textbook. It may be authoritarianism that you like, but that doesn’t meant it’s not authoritarianism.

And no, CRT doesn’t do what you claim it does. You’ve fallen for Chris Rufo’s rhetorical games. It’s simply a theoretical basis for understanding historical racial disparities.

My church was ruined over CRT. CRT proponents seem every disparity in life as a result of systemic racism and white supremacy, with zero examination of other factors. They basically want to make rules where they talk, you listen, and anything else in unacceptable. Facts are seen as examples of "whiteness." It's all about emotional stories that can never, ever be challenged. And when they say uplift black voices, they only mean ones on the left, not conservative ones. CRT is poison to society, to churches, to schools, to businesses, and to sports leagues.

It makes me sad to hear about church splits, no matter the reason. I wonder what the folks on the other side of the issue would say the cause was. I’m sure they’d paint a different picture. What is certain is that listening and trying to understand each other has been lost for us as well as disagreeing well.

I talked to a family from Wheaton, IL at CFAW who had chosen LU over Wheaton for college. At the end of the conversation, I asked why they chose LU over Wheaton College in their hometown. The mom said the choice was easy because "Wheaton had gone Woke."