This is the location for conversations that don't fall anywhere else on FlameFans. Whether its politics, culture, the latest techno stuff or just the best places to travel on the web ... this is your forum.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

User avatar
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#640021
sstaedtler wrote: February 21st, 2022, 6:23 am
stokesjokes wrote: February 1st, 2022, 8:38 pm Yes, using the power of the government to prevent certain ideas from being taught is authoritarianism, full stop. That’s textbook. It may be authoritarianism that you like, but that doesn’t meant it’s not authoritarianism.

And no, CRT doesn’t do what you claim it does. You’ve fallen for Chris Rufo’s rhetorical games. It’s simply a theoretical basis for understanding historical racial disparities.
My church was ruined over CRT. CRT proponents seem every disparity in life as a result of systemic racism and white supremacy, with zero examination of other factors. They basically want to make rules where they talk, you listen, and anything else in unacceptable. Facts are seen as examples of "whiteness." It's all about emotional stories that can never, ever be challenged. And when they say uplift black voices, they only mean ones on the left, not conservative ones. CRT is poison to society, to churches, to schools, to businesses, and to sports leagues.
That was the goal. The majority (of every race) are starting to realize it.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#640027
Cider Jim wrote: February 21st, 2022, 8:59 am I talked to a family from Wheaton, IL at CFAW who had chosen LU over Wheaton for college. At the end of the conversation, I asked why they chose LU over Wheaton College in their hometown. The mom said the choice was easy because "Wheaton had gone Woke." :shock: Study
They ain’t wrong
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#640030
Cider Jim wrote: February 21st, 2022, 8:59 am I talked to a family from Wheaton, IL at CFAW who had chosen LU over Wheaton for college. At the end of the conversation, I asked why they chose LU over Wheaton College in their hometown. The mom said the choice was easy because "Wheaton had gone Woke." :shock: Study
I think this is another example of the degradation of the term “woke.” Wheaton has always been a broader tent of evangelicalism than Liberty, but they by no means have even hinted at abandoning conservative theological orthodoxy or being insistent or coercive on matter of racial justice, they just give latitude to their profs to teach and write on things Liberty wouldn’t. Consequently, I think this is one of the reasons that a place like Wheaton, despite being far smaller than LU, consistently produces higher-level scholarship.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#640032
Most of my contemporaries who are Wheaton alumni tell me they have ZERO interest in sending their kids to their alma mater. And it has just as much to do with the theology as their social justice. IMHO it is sad to see great schools like Wheaton drift off to be just like every other school when they were once the standard bearers for being distinctively Evangelical. In their pursuit of becoming the "Christian" Harvard, some would suggest they are following the school in Cambridge's sad drift.
flameshaw, Purple Haize liked this
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#640035
I am just a messenger in what I am hearing. But I hear most about Post-Modernism and a wish-washy regard for inerrancy in the Theology Department. My dad grew up in Wheaton in its hayday of Billy Graham & John R Rice. Back then it was regarded as the Evangelical epicenter of the world. Now it appears to many of their alumni that they have lost their mission in pursuit of broader acceptance. Fair or not, I cannot say with any certainty. It is just what I hear from alumni primarily here in Texas.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#640036
That would be a shame if it turned out to be true. The only thing I have to go on is their doctrinal statement, which is very theologically conservative, and my interaction with their professors' work, which I haven't found to be anything but orthodox. Obviously there could be a wide gulf between what the professors sign on to in their doctrinal statement and what they present in the classroom. I do know that at least as of 2016, they were firing people who went off the reservation theologically, if you remember the Larycia Hawkins controversy.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#640037
That's just the Phil Ryken effect. He's brought a touch of the old Wheaton back. But he can only do so much. He's pushing against the stream most times. Nonetheless, the school, in general, usually flows with the current of the day. It remains a fit for some people, while others feel there may be better options.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#640038
Sly Fox wrote: February 21st, 2022, 11:13 am I am just a messenger in what I am hearing. But I hear most about Post-Modernism and a wish-washy regard for inerrancy in the Theology Department. My dad grew up in Wheaton in its hayday of Billy Graham & John R Rice. Back then it was regarded as the Evangelical epicenter of the world. Now it appears to many of their alumni that they have lost their mission in pursuit of broader acceptance. Fair or not, I cannot say with any certainty. It is just what I hear from alumni primarily here in Texas.
Being from the Midwest the 2 Big Evangelical options were Taylor and Wheaton. Wheaton was very ‘old school’, pretty stuffy and looked at as one of the Evangelical Ivies. I dated a girl who was attending there and she once said it was like doing something wrong (not dating a Wheaton guy). But in the last 20 odd years they have become more and more ‘liberal’ in all senses of the word. I know folks I grew up with who aspired to go to Wheaton but have nothing good to say about it now. Personally I have found a line of demarcation from those who attended Wheaton around when I was in college and now. It is sad. And not remotely representative of the Billy Graham glory days.
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#640039
From what I know of Wheaton it has gotten more progressive but still would be considered conservative by many. I think it speaks more of how much more of how close of a relationship the evangelical church has with the republican party than anything. But that is a whole other topic that I'm not sure I'm wanting to get into on this forum.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#640040
It's the wannabe dimension that seems to be most unappealing. Another significant issue is sense of mission. It's nothing like it was. But it doesn't mean there aren't some good people there.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#640064
thepostman wrote: February 21st, 2022, 1:41 pm From what I know of Wheaton it has gotten more progressive but still would be considered conservative by many. I think it speaks more of how much more of how close of a relationship the evangelical church has with the republican party than anything. But that is a whole other topic that I'm not sure I'm wanting to get into on this forum.
It would be considered Conservative based on past reputation. I agree when people hear “Wheaton” they default to “oh, very conservative school” based on what the knew not what they know
User avatar
By BlueBlood
Posts
#640073
I don't think this is a new thing. I remember that Wheaton was "left" of me back in 1990 when I decided to go to Cedarville.

Semi-related. I took my daughter and her boyfriend to CFAW this weekend. Because of her older sisters, my daughter has been to LU numerous times. It was the boyfriends first time there and he was extremely impressed by the visit. Loved the campus, the atmosphere, and was blown-away by Convocation. He did not expect to like it that much.

Both my daughter and her boyfriend have been accepted at Florida State and both have applications in at U of Florida (decisions come out this Friday). Since Gainesville was on the way home to Tampa, we stopped in to let the kids see UF. It was crazy being at UF after being at LU the day before. When we pulled up to campus, the brick gateway "University of Florida" sign that sits at the very edge of campus had rainbow bunting on it. Its literally the very first real property owned by the University and the first thing you see. In the first block, there were 3 kids wearing gay-pride flags as capes and a kid that was wearing a flag as a cape that we needed to google (it was Transgender pride). I just let them take it in and didn't say much - mostly because, in all likelihood, the boyfriend (at least) will end up going to school here. The theme continued throughout campus to the point where the boyfriend finally commented that either UF's gay population is way way over the national average, or they are just super extreme advocates. His observations.

Anyway, it was a reality check for our whole car. LU has its issues for sure - but I absolutely love the environment that my girls have enjoyed there. And that love is bigger than ever. Despite the economics (daughter # 3 gets free tuition in FL), I'm definitely rooting that we make it a trifecta for LU.

Further deviation from Woke discussion: We got to UF right after the LU baseball team beat UF. We didn't get there in time to see the game, but we did see the Liberty Flames bus. Go Flames.
Just John, sstaedtler liked this
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#640083
sstaedtler wrote: February 21st, 2022, 6:23 am
stokesjokes wrote: February 1st, 2022, 8:38 pm Yes, using the power of the government to prevent certain ideas from being taught is authoritarianism, full stop. That’s textbook. It may be authoritarianism that you like, but that doesn’t meant it’s not authoritarianism.

And no, CRT doesn’t do what you claim it does. You’ve fallen for Chris Rufo’s rhetorical games. It’s simply a theoretical basis for understanding historical racial disparities.
My church was ruined over CRT...
Sadly, we have these incompetent individuals coming out of these clueless seminaries. They can easily direct you to the nearest tattoo shop, turn you on to the most obscure 90s music, and talk at length about fine Canadian whiskies.

They're very good at discerning the latest casual-dress-shirt fad, but appear to be utterly incapable of piecing together one single coherent apologetic thought. Completely lost as to what's going on with society and in the lives of those they claim to be guiding. They laugh off every credible instinct to be cautious........It is what it is..........fools love folly
sstaedtler liked this
User avatar
By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#640085
paradox wrote: February 23rd, 2022, 9:53 am
sstaedtler wrote: February 21st, 2022, 6:23 am
stokesjokes wrote: February 1st, 2022, 8:38 pm Yes, using the power of the government to prevent certain ideas from being taught is authoritarianism, full stop. That’s textbook. It may be authoritarianism that you like, but that doesn’t meant it’s not authoritarianism.

And no, CRT doesn’t do what you claim it does. You’ve fallen for Chris Rufo’s rhetorical games. It’s simply a theoretical basis for understanding historical racial disparities.
My church was ruined over CRT...
Sadly, we have these incompetent individuals coming out of these clueless seminaries. They can easily direct you to the nearest tattoo shop, turn you on to the most obscure 90s music, and talk at length about fine Canadian whiskies.

They're very good at discerning the latest casual-dress-shirt fad, but appear to be utterly incapable of piecing together one single coherent apologetic thought. Completely lost as to what's going on with society and in the lives of those they claim to be guiding. They laugh off every credible instinct to be cautious........It is what it is..........fools love folly
Praying this changes ..... soon. 🙏
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#640139
I'm probably hundreds of miles from nearest SBC church. But from the cheap seats, this looks a lot like what Methodists were going through a decade ago w/LGBT& redefinition of marriage.
User avatar
By Sly Fox
Registration Days Posts
#640142
Blueblood - You & I likely have friends in common based on your Cedarville reference. But even they had a stretch there in Dixon's last years where things were getting a bit off its heritage. They seemed to right the ship but my grandfather was still on the board back when it ws getting hairy.

And I fully understand the battle between affordable state schools vs. LU. My son is a lifelong Flames fan here in Texas but never really gave LU much of a chance for a number of reasons. He did have his tuition covered in Texas and it turns out A&M is actually a pretty good environment for Christians unlike my wife's alma mater in Austin which was his other finalist. My oldest daughter just didn't have any enthusiasm about attending school halfway across the continent so an academic scholarship to her brother's school led her to becoming an Aggie this fall. I do hold out hope for my youngest daughter. If LU could come up with an equine therapy major she would probably be sold.
User avatar
By Veritas
Posts
#640144
BlueBlood wrote: February 22nd, 2022, 12:59 pm I don't think this is a new thing. I remember that Wheaton was "left" of me back in 1990 when I decided to go to Cedarville.

Semi-related. I took my daughter and her boyfriend to CFAW this weekend. Because of her older sisters, my daughter has been to LU numerous times. It was the boyfriends first time there and he was extremely impressed by the visit. Loved the campus, the atmosphere, and was blown-away by Convocation. He did not expect to like it that much.

Both my daughter and her boyfriend have been accepted at Florida State and both have applications in at U of Florida (decisions come out this Friday). Since Gainesville was on the way home to Tampa, we stopped in to let the kids see UF. It was crazy being at UF after being at LU the day before. When we pulled up to campus, the brick gateway "University of Florida" sign that sits at the very edge of campus had rainbow bunting on it. Its literally the very first real property owned by the University and the first thing you see. In the first block, there were 3 kids wearing gay-pride flags as capes and a kid that was wearing a flag as a cape that we needed to google (it was Transgender pride). I just let them take it in and didn't say much - mostly because, in all likelihood, the boyfriend (at least) will end up going to school here. The theme continued throughout campus to the point where the boyfriend finally commented that either UF's gay population is way way over the national average, or they are just super extreme advocates. His observations.

Anyway, it was a reality check for our whole car. LU has its issues for sure - but I absolutely love the environment that my girls have enjoyed there. And that love is bigger than ever. Despite the economics (daughter # 3 gets free tuition in FL), I'm definitely rooting that we make it a trifecta for LU.

Further deviation from Woke discussion: We got to UF right after the LU baseball team beat UF. We didn't get there in time to see the game, but we did see the Liberty Flames bus. Go Flames.
Long time Tallahassee resident here. We have a 15 and 17 year old considering FSU and UF precisely for the affordability and logistics. With Bright Futures scholarships, the cost would be essentially zero for FSU and a reasonable amount for UF. I have perceived a definite cultural difference between FSU and UF, having visited both campuses over the years for various activities. FSU is situated in a somewhat sleepy "South Georgia" area that, while predictably liberal in voting patterns for a capital and university town, is still somewhat conservative culturally. UF, as you've noted, is not. We took a look at the incoming electives for Freshman at UF and were overwhelmed by the silly progressive axe grinding evident in nearly every course.

We're visiting Lynchburg for a wedding this summer. Should be an interesting contrast--both of our older kids have had significant exposure to events on the FSU campus. While certain aspects of FSU's campus are quite nice, it feels overall very old and compressed (~ 400 acres total). And then there is Tallahassee, which has essentially zero for college kids for entertainment beyond bars. Backing up the "old" feel of FSU, there's this: https://www.wctv.tv/2022/01/27/report-s ... old-radon/. We understand that the entire campus is now being inspected for mold and radon. A handful of the affected staff and students have died (3 of 8 ) and I'm sure there will be more.

Back to the topic on hand, I equate "woke" or "progressive" with an obsessive and unyielding determination to evaluate all cultural issues through the lens of race/class/gender, with a particular emphasis on separating individuals into silos based on immutable characteristics.
LaTech

Looks like we'll have to win with pitching cause t[…]

JMU for 6 games

The fact of the matter is, JMU and Liberty could n[…]

NCAA Realignment Megathread

Honestly, the ACC should've taken Wazzu and Oregon[…]

Dondi Costin - LU President

HEB is alright, but honestly Trader Joe's is my fa[…]