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#627494
We own a lot of land --- some as real estate investments, but much of it is used in church ranches and farms to produce food and commodities. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) owns 2% of the state of Florida.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os ... 20November.

We are exhorted to have a 2 year supply of food and supplies on hand, as well as emergency supplies. Not in a frenzied prepper way, but in an orderly "line upon line, here a little and there a little" way. Much of the crops and products raised on the church farms are packaged and canned in church canneries, for home storage and to help the poor. We have stores called bishops' storehouses (they look just like grocery stores), where those in need (Mormon or non-Mormon) obtain what are called food orders from a local bishop (I've been a bishop twice --- it's analagous to a pastor or a Catholic priest). Self-reliance principles are stressed (teach to fish, instead of giving a fish) and we try to avoid just being a food bank for handouts, so the root causes for the need are addressed, but I've given many food orders for people who aren't Mormon. The order has products and quantities, and the person is assisted in filling the order by local youth. It's like grocery shopping, but without payment, and the products (Deseret brand) are really high quality. All of this comes from the church farms and ranches.

Mormons will often have service assignments to work at a church farm, or a cannery, or Deseret Industries (thrift shops), but there are full-time employees as well.
#627499
Interesting article. Being a protestant Christian I noticed this.
“In terms of thinking about latter days, acquiring land, especially agricultural land, land that could raise food, would be advantageous if there were a big religious event,” she says.
My preparation for a "big religious event" is placing my faith in what Christ did on the cross for me. Im prepping for the rapture. If you miss it you'll need 7 years worth of food. 😉.

I'll be watching to see who wins the land bid. Good luck.
#627504
The property on the block includes: four enormous farms, a slew of lucrative Columbia River irrigation water rights, vineyards, orchards, a 35,000-head cattle feeding operation
I wonder what Bill would do with the cattle operation. He's pushing western nations to cut out beef altogether... in the name of climate change.
#627631
thepostman wrote: June 17th, 2021, 11:05 am Out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on this?
You know anytime the subject end times, rapture or second coming makes the news I'm interested :lol:

Plus I enjoy digging down on religion, politics and business . You guys stay fixated on Jr. I don't.

I've wondered for sometime why 2 establishment, Utah politicians stick with big tech while it's censoring conservative speech. This could be the answer. $$$$
#627645
Rubicon wrote: June 12th, 2021, 3:53 pm We own a lot of land --- some as real estate investments, but much of it is used in church ranches and farms to produce food and commodities. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) owns 2% of the state of Florida.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os ... 20November.

We are exhorted to have a 2 year supply of food and supplies on hand, as well as emergency supplies. Not in a frenzied prepper way, but in an orderly "line upon line, here a little and there a little" way. Much of the crops and products raised on the church farms are packaged and canned in church canneries, for home storage and to help the poor. We have stores called bishops' storehouses (they look just like grocery stores), where those in need (Mormon or non-Mormon) obtain what are called food orders from a local bishop (I've been a bishop twice --- it's analagous to a pastor or a Catholic priest). Self-reliance principles are stressed (teach to fish, instead of giving a fish) and we try to avoid just being a food bank for handouts, so the root causes for the need are addressed, but I've given many food orders for people who aren't Mormon. The order has products and quantities, and the person is assisted in filling the order by local youth. It's like grocery shopping, but without payment, and the products (Deseret brand) are really high quality. All of this comes from the church farms and ranches.

Mormons will often have service assignments to work at a church farm, or a cannery, or Deseret Industries (thrift shops), but there are full-time employees as well.
One of the linked articles says the LDS has, "$100 billion in tax-exempt accounts in preparation of "the second coming of Christ,". What's the logic behind that? Is that in the book of mormon?
#627653
flamehunter wrote: June 18th, 2021, 12:48 pm
thepostman wrote: June 17th, 2021, 11:05 am Out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on this?
Seriously! It's almost as bad as PH and his F1 obsession. I guess you asked Purple about that too?
Ummm F1 is awesome! You don’t see Bill Gates or the Mormons sponsoring a team do you :D :D
TH Spangler liked this
#627660
thepostman wrote: June 18th, 2021, 12:59 pm
flamehunter wrote: June 18th, 2021, 12:48 pm
thepostman wrote: June 17th, 2021, 11:05 am Out of curiosity, why are you so fixated on this?
Seriously! It's almost as bad as PH and his F1 obsession. I guess you asked Purple about that too?
If he waa having a discussion with himself, I would have :lol:
Question was for Rubicon :lol:
#627690
TH Spangler wrote: June 18th, 2021, 3:25 am
One of the linked articles says the LDS has, "$100 billion in tax-exempt accounts in preparation of "the second coming of Christ,". What's the logic behind that? Is that in the book of mormon?
It's not from the Book of Mormon or any other Restoration scriptures. It stems from our penchant for self-reliance and preparedness, but at the church-wide level. My understanding is that the investors (called Ensign Peak) are very good at what they do (I know nothing about the stock market or investing, myself). The current estimate is $120 billion in worth. Most estimates place annual tithing at $6 billion, and whatever isn't spent on running the church, missions, humanitarian projects, etc. is plowed into the investment account.

I don't focus on it because when the end comes, I don't think money, stock portfolios, etc. will be of any use. Tangible capital, skills, and supplies will be far more important than money. I also think personally that we will once again be persecuted along the lines of when the army was sent out against Utah, or when the church was disincorporated and all property seized as part of the Edmunds-Tucker Act. Seizure of the massive property holdings (churches, temples, universities, farms and ranches, and investment property) could become part of a Revelation 12-13 persecution. I think many Mormons (and other conservative Christians --- those who won't bow the knee to the beast) would be surprised if/when this happens. We've become fat, dumb, happy, and complacent in our prosperity and relative lack of persecution.
#627692
Rubicon wrote: June 19th, 2021, 12:47 am
TH Spangler wrote: June 18th, 2021, 3:25 am
One of the linked articles says the LDS has, "$100 billion in tax-exempt accounts in preparation of "the second coming of Christ,". What's the logic behind that? Is that in the book of mormon?
It's not from the Book of Mormon or any other Restoration scriptures. It stems from our penchant for self-reliance and preparedness, but at the church-wide level.

Self-reliance and preparedness are good goals. LDS has many kind and generous members. But I have problems with many of your of scriptures.
:idea: https://www.gotquestions.org/search.php ... +of+mormon

My understanding is that the investors (called Ensign Peak) are very good at what they do (I know nothing about the stock market or investing, myself). The current estimate is $120 billion in worth. Most estimates place annual tithing at $6 billion, and whatever isn't spent on running the church, missions, humanitarian projects, etc. is plowed into the investment account.

With what we see going on today I personally would have a problem with $6 billion worth of my surplus tithes being invested in Microsoft, Apple, Alphabet, Amazon, and Intel.

I don't focus on it because when the end comes, I don't think money, stock portfolios, etc. will be of any use. Tangible capital, skills, and supplies will be far more important than money. I also think personally that we will once again be persecuted along the lines of when the army was sent out against Utah, or when the church was disincorporated and all property seized as part of the Edmunds-Tucker Act. Seizure of the massive property holdings (churches, temples, universities, farms and ranches, and investment property) could become part of a Revelation 12-13 persecution. I think many Mormons (and other conservative Christians --- those who won't bow the knee to the beast) would be surprised if/when this happens. We've become fat, dumb, happy, and complacent in our prosperity and relative lack of persecution.

I pray one day many Mormons, like my buddy Mike Smith did, realize that Joseph Smith is a false Prophet and come home to true Christianity and the foundational truths from God’s Word.

God is telling a story today. It seems like Joseph Smith has you plugging yourself in where the Jew belongs. I don't think you will find the Biblical promise land in North America and I don't think many LDS members are Jewish.


#627699
TH Spangler wrote: June 19th, 2021, 6:07 am Self-reliance and preparedness are good goals. LDS has many kind and generous members. But I have problems with many of your of scriptures.[/color] [/i][/b]

It would be hard to be a non-Mormon who's thought about it (most people haven't given any thought to either), and not have a problem with our extra-Biblical scriptures. :wink:
With what we see going on today I personally would have a problem with $6 billion worth of my surplus tithes being invested in Microsoft, Apple, Alphabet, Amazon, and Intel.
I don't think there is a ton of surplus left from the annual tithing. Most of it is used to fulfill the church's mission, but any surplus from that is invested. For us, that's 10% gross income (pre-tax) from all observant members (not everyone pays tithing; it isn't coerced, but it is required to be considered in good standing).

As for what is invested in, that's up to the whiz kids at Ensign Peak. As long as immoral items aren't in the portfolio, I don't really care. It's invested to get as big a return as possible, so it makes sense that profitable stocks are pursued.
I pray one day many Mormons, like my buddy Mike Smith did, realize that Joseph Smith is a false Prophet and come home to true Christianity and the foundational truths from God’s Word.


I'm glad he didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some who leave our church (I'm sure it's also true of other branches of Christianity) become atheists or hard agnostics. I have felt God lift the burden of my sins of my shoulders, and it was real --- it wasn't wishful thinking, auto-suggestion, confirmation bias, etc. If I lost my belief in Joseph Smith and his successors, I would still be a believing Christian, but many who lose their faith lose their faith in everything.

God is telling a story today. It seems like Joseph Smith has you plugging yourself in where the Jew belongs. I don't think you will find the Biblical promise land in North America and I don't think many LDS members are Jewish.
Not the Jews, per se, but latter-day Israel, in fulfillment of biblical and other prophecies. As I'm sure you know, we present a difference from Catholicism (which claims unbroken authority from Christ through Peter and his successors in the papacy) and Protestantism (which claims that the Catholic Church fell away enough to need radical reforming, but with an unbroken line of authority back to Christ unnecessary --- priesthood of all believers, feeling called to the work, etc.). We claim to be the restored church of Jesus Christ --- not a reformation. When the apostles were martyred, we claim that it was like a mirror was shattered, and God took His church from the earth (as laid out in Revelation and other places). Good people gathered as many pieces of the mirror as they could, but as prophesied, in the latter-days God restored His church (a new, complete mirror) together with the authority by the laying on of hands through resurrected or angels (Peter, James, John, Elijah, Moses, etc.). We see ourselves as "the ten thousands of Ephraim and the thousands of Manasseh," called to "push the people together to the ends of the earth" (Deuteronomy 33:17) in this stage of the Restoration, but there will also be a gathering of the Jews in Israel (Zionism in the late 1890s, establishment of Israel in 1948, miraculous intervention in the Six Days War in 1967 and others, etc.). We believe that this latter-day gathering, first literal in the 19th century, and now locally through missionary work, together with temples, works towards fulfillment of Isaiah 2:2-3. The law will go forth from Zion (America), and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. There will be important aspects of the end times that will not be through the Mormons, but through the gathered Jews.
#627702
Rubicon wrote: June 19th, 2021, 6:41 pm Sorry about the formatting. I thought I had all the brackets right, but apparently not . . .
Good thing we don't have Habermas weighing in on this; he would make many protestants here uncomfortable. I find it interesting to hear how the LDS is weighing the future and the role investment is playing. Quite a bit refreshing when one has spent lots of time around folks who spend most of their time trying to look better than the others in the Church and spending even more time judging those who don't fit into their Fundamentalist framework.
#627739
TH Spangler wrote: June 20th, 2021, 7:39 am
Rubicon wrote: June 19th, 2021, 6:41 pm Sorry about the formatting. I thought I had all the brackets right, but apparently not . . .
For me it's easy to see where Smith went wrong.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons-Christians.html
Do you ever post anything related to theology or to deeper philosophical questions that is original?
#627746
rogers3 wrote:
TH Spangler wrote: June 20th, 2021, 7:39 am
Rubicon wrote: June 19th, 2021, 6:41 pm Sorry about the formatting. I thought I had all the brackets right, but apparently not . . .
For me it's easy to see where Smith went wrong.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Mormons-Christians.html
Do you ever post anything related to theology or to deeper philosophical questions that is original?
I was going to say the same thing. At least Rubicon responded to him with his own words and thoughts instead of just posting a link.

We live in a time when many folks love to have websites and/or media content do the big brain work for them.
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