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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#629756
FlamesHighontheTide wrote: August 2nd, 2021, 3:06 pm No offense to you stokesjokes, but I call strong LIES to this so called proof that Dr. Baucham willfully misrepresented the original CRT sources or plagiarized James Lindsay.
I don’t understand how you can see the quotes as represented in Voddie’s book side by side with the actual quotes in Delgado’s work and not say that he has substantially changed their content and meaning. It’s irrefutable, really. The Lindsay plagiarism maybe a tiny bit more grey, but it seems awfully unlikely that they would both misrepresent Delgado’s quote with the exact same wording.

this video is especially damning on the matter because there’s less room to say “well, he was just interpreting.” He insists this is the quote from Delgado when it is not.

By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#629758
JK37 wrote: August 2nd, 2021, 3:20 pm I appreciate the pains McDurman takes to make his case.

Why does he spend half his “conclusion” predicting the responses of others to his claims? Could it be he hopes to stem those responses before they happen, or at least to be able to say “I told you so!”?

@stokesjokes I am glad you don’t care who McDurman is, and I agree that wouldn’t be relevant to any facts presented. But relevant to this topic, what do you care about?

If Baucham did plagiarize Lindsay, do you toss aside Baucham and disregard everything else about Lindsay except truth as he presents it, same as you did for McDurman?

If McDurman is right that Baucham misrepresented Delgado and plagiarized Lindsay, what’s next?
If McDurman is right you have to set aside Baucham’s work here. The plagiarism isn’t the issue, more-so the changed quotes. If he’s deliberately set up a “CRT” straw-man, you can’t follow the rest of his criticism since it’s built off of a deception.

if you want a next step regarding CRT, it means re-evaluating our positions based on new information. Or stop using the CRT boogeyman to absolve ourselves from seeking racial justice.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#629769
We get it. Jesus said to love one another. But that wasn't quite enough. It's incomplete. Need to reconsider. Kinda outdated. Why not go with trendy theories? You know, the point the finger at the other guy kind of theory.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#629774
paradox wrote: August 2nd, 2021, 10:40 pm We get it. Jesus said to love one another. But that wasn't quite enough. It's incomplete. Need to reconsider. Kinda outdated. Why not go with trendy theories? You know, the point the finger at the other guy kind of theory.
I think that about sums it up :D
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#629787
paradox wrote: August 2nd, 2021, 10:40 pm We get it. Jesus said to love one another. But that wasn't quite enough. It's incomplete. Need to reconsider. Kinda outdated. Why not go with trendy theories? You know, the point the finger at the other guy kind of theory.
Trendy theories are usually more about current social politics.
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By rmiller1959
Registration Days Posts
#629788
"Love one another" is complete and fully sufficient, as is its Author. It's our interpretation of it that's incomplete.

We're really good at going after the latest bogeyman but horrible at offering hope. We have the best solution in the world to bring about racial reconciliation and redemption for all, but we'd rather raise our voices about what we oppose rather than talking about what is broken and how Jesus can fix it. That's not my opinion, either. The polls taken of believers over the past decade paint a pretty grim picture:

- 69 percent of white evangelical Protestants believe "one of the most effective ways to improve race relations is to stop talking about race" (PRRI, 2012).

- Majorities of white Christians, including 53% of white evangelical Protestants, 52% of white Catholics, and 51% of white mainline Protestants, agree that socioeconomic disparities between black and white Americans are due to lack of effort by black Americans (PRRI, 2018).

- Only two in five white practicing Christians (38%) believe the U.S. has a race problem. This percentage more than doubles, however, among Black practicing Christians (78%) (Barna, 2019).

- Three-quarters of Black practicing Christians (75%) at least somewhat agree that the U.S. has a history of oppressing minorities, while white practicing Christians are less likely to do so (42%) (Barna, 2019).

- Data shows that three in five white practicing Christians (61%) take an individualized approach to matters of race, saying these issues largely stem from one’s own beliefs and prejudices causing them to treat people of other races poorly. Meanwhile, two-thirds of Black practicing Christians (66%) agree that racial discrimination is historically built into our society and institutions (Barna, 2019).

- Seven in 10 Black practicing Christians (70%) report being motivated to address racial injustice. Only about one-third of white practicing Christians (35%) say the same (Barna, 2019).

- Four-in-ten white Americans (42%) say “political topics such as immigration and race relations” should not be discussed in sermons (Pew Research Center, 2020).

This isn't about CRT - it's about IDWHI.

They called the civil rights movement a Marxist plot, too, and now we all love to quote Dr. King, or at least the parts we agree with. Georg Hegel was right: “The only thing that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.” Nature abhors a vacuum, and if we're not considering "others more important than" ourselves and looking out "for the interests of others" (Philippians 2:3-4), then somebody else will, even if it's with ulterior motives.

James 1:19-20 says, "My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires." Talking over others and going from zero to sixty on the anger speedometer in one second are core characteristics of our culture, but Jesus was and is counter-cultural, and he's not "owned" by liberals or conservatives. He is the King.

Can it be said of us, as it was of Paul and Silas, "These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, and Jason has received them, and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus" (Acts 17:6-7).

I don't embrace CRT, but I don't embrace ignoring the problem, either. Don't like CRT? Do something better, and then promote it.

"Do not withhold good from the deserving when it is within your power to act. Do not tell your neighbor, 'Come back tomorrow and I will provide'— when you already have the means" (Proverbs 3:27-28)
stokesjokes, thepostman, Yacht Rock and 2 others liked this
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#629790
@miller1959
The polls taken of believers over the past decade paint a pretty grim picture:
My guess "believers " here are church attendees or those that "say they beleive in a God". Impossible for us to do, but I wish we could see a poll of born again saved Christians only.

That's the solution, get men and women born again 💡
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#629791
That's a good point. This information is pretty much useless to the authentic believer because it doesn't take into account the nominal person who is disconnected from the real thing. James is clear...only one kind of faith can save us.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#629794
But haven't we seen the same type of responses from folks here on this forum? Unless you're referring to yourselves as CINOs.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#629795
rmiller1959 wrote: August 3rd, 2021, 11:19 am
I don't embrace CRT, but I don't embrace ignoring the problem, either. Don't like CRT? Do something better, and then promote it.

The academic establishment can't make generalizations about systemic racism, without addressing their own first, right? Otherwise, what else would you call this?
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#629796
Yacht Rock wrote: August 3rd, 2021, 1:02 pm But haven't we seen the same type of responses from folks here on this forum? Unless you're referring to yourselves as CINOs.
We can try, but It's hard to get reality on a spreadsheet. The sense that I get with Evangelicals in the Bible Belt is that it's mostly nominal. Same with Catholics in the Northeast & Canada. However, the inverse may be true if you're a Catholic in the South or an Evangelical in the Northeast. Others may see it differently. It's just one guy's take, for what it's worth.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#630426
Is this a way to say Biden was semi--justified? Even former Brit PM Tony Blair criticized his decision-making as "imbecile" and "dangerous." Expert or not, it's plain for all to see.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#630430
If it’s a politician I like, there’s no way that anyone could have seen it coming.

If it’s a politician I don’t like, they are a complete imbecilic moron for not seeing it coming.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#630431
True. But the unfortunate problem for our friend Biden here, is that no one seems to like him. And anyone paying close attention, can see that he's a tacky career politician lacking in basic skills. Regardless of your political persuasion. It is what it is.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#630435
The “no one likes Biden” bit has been a weak narrative since before the election. Somehow this guy that no one likes managed to get more votes than any presidential candidate in history and has had, up until the Afghanistan mess, a consistently higher than 50% approval rating, something the last guy never achieved.

Two thoughts:

Either:
1. Maybe what is really meant is that no one is obsessed with Biden, unlike the last guy, which seems a lot healthier.
2. Or this is just further evidence of the silo-ing, that people are so insulated from each other politically that you don’t actually know or interact with any of the >50% of Americans that have approved of Biden.


*edit* or: 3. The last guy lowered the bar for approval so low that, even though no one actually likes Joe, they “approve” of him since he isn’t as bad as the other guy.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#630436
Lots of people voted against Trump not FOR Biden. If you told me 50% of his voters were solely because they were Anti Trump I wouldn’t doubt it.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#630437
I can agree with that. Doesn’t explain the approval ratings, though, unless it’s just comparative approval, hence the edit.
By paradox
Registration Days Posts
#630438
Virtually everyone that I know who voted for him, knew that he was weird, and knew that he was challenged. They simply believed that he would be installed, simply as a figurehead. Advisors and intelligence would make key decisions, not Biden. That's what they liked about a Biden presidency. But, didn't quite turn out to be that way.

Bush insider Ari Fleischer said something that I thought was interesting....."the guy has been around forever, thinks he's seen it all, thinks he knows it all."

Those 40 something percent who approve of the guy are either not paying attention or they're possibly distracted by all the false fear-mongering going on.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#630440
stokesjokes wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 4:08 pm I can agree with that. Doesn’t explain the approval ratings, though, unless it’s just comparative approval, hence the edit.
He’s a Democrat. Hence a built in 40%. Factor in people not wanting to feel guilty about their vote and there you have it.
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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#630441
There will be a point where the honeymoon period is over and he’s judged on his own merits, then. Wondering if Afghanistan was that point.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#630443
stokesjokes wrote: August 22nd, 2021, 5:08 pm There will be a point where the honeymoon period is over and he’s judged on his own merits, then. Wondering if Afghanistan was that point.
3 more years for him, 3 more years of US decline. :cry:
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