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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625970
I’m so confused. How in the world did you get those first two statements from either of these videos? Neither come anywhere close to saying any of it. You’re stretching so hard I think you might pull a muscle.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#625971
Many black Americans today trace their roots to legal imagration.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-tren ... eign-born/

Many Irish Americans trace there roots to indentured servitude. Unfortunately "some" of their women were forced into sex work.

I can't help believing CRT has more to do with modern politics. As Dr Voddie Baucham points out BLM leaders openly promote Marxism?
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#625973
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:15 am I’m so confused. How in the world did you get those first two statements from either of these videos? Neither come anywhere close to saying any of it. You’re stretching so hard I think you might pull a muscle.
In the first video the professor literally says CRT is based on looking at everything through the prism of race
The video from GB was further response to Postie about only getting information from people who would be opposed to it. Yes she’s opposed to it but you would think a Diversity Minister would be all for CRT. Except she isn’t.

I will add the ‘beauty’ of CRT is that it needs to offer no solutions. It just points out a problem in the past and says that was bad. Then says it’s still bad. And every time you try to point out improvements you are confronted with more “but that’s bad too” comments. It’s a theory/philosophy designed not to unite but to deepen a divide.
The bottom line with CRT- White people are always bad and black peoples are always oppressed
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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#625974
It is a theory. Theories aren't meant to bring solutions. Which is why just talking about CRT alone is pointless because it isn't meant to be a fixer. Anybody trying to say CRT is meant to fix racial injustices, whether they are support CRT or not , is not fully understanding what the definition of the word theory is.

Here is a dictionary definition of the word theory.

"a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained."
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#625976
stokesjokes wrote:
Purple Haize wrote: - Everything must be looked at through the lens of Race
- Black people have always been oppressed by white people and will always continue to be.
- White people are by their very nature racist whether they know it or not
- If you disagree with anything any speaker on CRT says it’s just proof that A) you don’t really understand what CRT is all about and B) it’s proof you’re a Racist.
This is such bad-faith utter BS that I don’t know where to begin. The only people that would offer these as “tenets” of CRT are the people trying to make you afraid of it. It’s deliberate misrepresentation and you’re smart enough to know that. It’s just downright dishonesty at this point.
This is exactly what Ibram X. Kendi, who is a leading figure in this movement believes.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#625977
One of my biggest issues with CRT is how it eliminates the gradients of racial bias, racial insensitivity, and racism. It lumps everything under the title of racism. CRT’s proponents redefined the word racist and hold everyone to that new definition.

While I fully believe there has been systemic racism in the past, I believe most people today hold racial biases or insensitivities and aren’t actively believing one race is better than another. When you call someone a racist who isn’t racist, they ball their fists and are ready to fight. When you point out unconscious biases due to the culture they grew up in, they’re more willing to listen and try to understand.

There’s no getting around the fact that white people held (and still hold) the hegemonic power in many places in our country. That’s an issue we have to confront and talk about how it negatively influenced those without power, especially in systems designed to oppress minorities without power. But that doesn’t mean that every white person is part of the oppressor group. None of us were around during the passing of Jim Crow laws so we were not active in that oppression against black people. If we argue for those laws today, then we can be classified as the oppressor, but that’s an unfair classification if based solely on skin color.

All out embrace of CRT is dangerous and should be rejected by every Christian. At its root is the idea that society must be blown up and started over - that it is beyond redemption. That is anti-Gospel.

All out rejection of CRT is dangerous as well. It turns a blind eye to the systemic issues we have in our country and positions the Christian as someone who cares more about protecting their culture than working to redeem places the sin of racism has impacted it both in the past and presently today.

We have to educate ourselves, find the areas that can be redeemed, and reject the ones that are anti-Christ. That should lead us to rarely ever fully embracing any man made economic or social theory because they will all come from sinful people. At the same time, there will likely always be pieces of these theories God can use for good.
By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#625978
We live in a society (cue meme) where people on both sides don't want to find common ground. Instead, they isolate themselves further on the far end of the Venn diagram.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625979
Purple Haize wrote: May 10th, 2021, 8:44 am
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:15 am I’m so confused. How in the world did you get those first two statements from either of these videos? Neither come anywhere close to saying any of it. You’re stretching so hard I think you might pull a muscle.
In the first video the professor literally says CRT is based on looking at everything through the prism of race
I watched it a 2nd time and it’s literally not there. What she says is that if you want to understand racial inequality you have to understand the relationship between race and health outcomes, education outcomes, etc. by looking at data points.

That should not be controversial in any sense, but here we are.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625980
jbock13 wrote: May 10th, 2021, 9:20 am
stokesjokes wrote:
Purple Haize wrote: -Everything must be looked at through the lens of Race
- Black people have always been oppressed by white people and will always continue to be.
- White people are by their very nature racist whether they know it or not
- If you disagree with anything any speaker on CRT says it’s just proof that A) you don’t really understand what CRT is all about and B) it’s proof you’re a Racist.
This is such bad-faith utter BS that I don’t know where to begin. The only people that would offer these as “tenets” of CRT are the people trying to make you afraid of it. It’s deliberate misrepresentation and you’re smart enough to know that. It’s just downright dishonesty at this point.
This is exactly what Ibram X. Kendi, who is a leading figure in this movement believes.
It’s not at all. It’s what you’ve been told by people deliberately misrepresenting CRT that he believes. Now, I’m not endorsing Kendi, I think he’s extreme in some of the ways Jon mentions, but if you want to argue against CRT, you should engage with its actual ideas, not the straw-men the media have created.

*edit*- I’ll give you credit that Kendi pushes the first point (Everything must be looked at through the lens of Race), none of the rest though
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#625981
Yacht Rock wrote: May 10th, 2021, 9:58 am We live in a society (cue meme) where people on both sides don't want to find common ground. Instead, they isolate themselves further on the far end of the Venn diagram.
We live in a country where one party (D's) can't get elected without 98% of one groups vote. So they divide us. Again and again. :(
Last edited by TH Spangler on May 10th, 2021, 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By Chippy
Registration Days Posts
#625982
Jonathan Carone wrote: May 10th, 2021, 9:43 am One of my biggest issues with CRT is how it eliminates the gradients of racial bias, racial insensitivity, and racism. It lumps everything under the title of racism. CRT’s proponents redefined the word racist and hold everyone to that new definition.

While I fully believe there has been systemic racism in the past, I believe most people today hold racial biases or insensitivities and aren’t actively believing one race is better than another. When you call someone a racist who isn’t racist, they ball their fists and are ready to fight. When you point out unconscious biases due to the culture they grew up in, they’re more willing to listen and try to understand.

There’s no getting around the fact that white people held (and still hold) the hegemonic power in many places in our country. That’s an issue we have to confront and talk about how it negatively influenced those without power, especially in systems designed to oppress minorities without power. But that doesn’t mean that every white person is part of the oppressor group. None of us were around during the passing of Jim Crow laws so we were not active in that oppression against black people. If we argue for those laws today, then we can be classified as the oppressor, but that’s an unfair classification if based solely on skin color.

All out embrace of CRT is dangerous and should be rejected by every Christian. At its root is the idea that society must be blown up and started over - that it is beyond redemption. That is anti-Gospel.

All out rejection of CRT is dangerous as well. It turns a blind eye to the systemic issues we have in our country and positions the Christian as someone who cares more about protecting their culture than working to redeem places the sin of racism has impacted it both in the past and presently today.

We have to educate ourselves, find the areas that can be redeemed, and reject the ones that are anti-Christ. That should lead us to rarely ever fully embracing any man made economic or social theory because they will all come from sinful people. At the same time, there will likely always be pieces of these theories God can use for good.
Can someone please give me an example of "systems designed to oppress minorities"? Is it the Great Society and Civil Rights, is it affirmative action, is is the integration of schools and colleges, is it the integration of professional sports, is it the first black president, the black mayor of a many major cities who has a black chief of police and black city council members, and a black school board, aren't they the one's who run the "systems" ? In the 50's there were exponentially more intact black families than there are now, children born out of wedlock was exponentially lower than it is now, education for blacks exponentially better than it is now, drug, alcohol, and incarcerations were a lot less than they are now, and certainly blacks killing blacks was rare. It's racism to tell minorities they can never achieve without white people admitting their privilege. What does that communicate to blacks or to whites. You are all falling into a very obvious and Satanical trap. I for one am not getting all caught up in this CRT hype. Nobody benefits from this, nobody, the least of which are minorities. Equal opportunity not equity which is Marxism. Whereas classic Marxism 's focus is on class envy CRT is on race envy. Regardless what flavor Marxism, institutions that connect the culture, faith/God, family, marriage, education, language, and even sports has to be attacked and eventually dismantled. That is what you see in the last 10 years and on steroids today. Minorities have more opportunity to achieve and succeed than any time in our history. Do you blame systems, people, and the like (passive/victim) or do you take responsibility for personal choices/behaviors (active/conqueror). Don't fall into this Satanic trap - Love God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. It's worked for me.
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By Yacht Rock
Registration Days Posts
#625983
TH Spangler wrote:
Yacht Rock wrote: May 10th, 2021, 9:58 am We live in a society (cue meme) where people on both sides don't want to find common ground. Instead, they isolate themselves further on the far end of the Venn diagram.
We live in a country where one party (D's) can't get elected without 98% of one groups vote. So they divide us. Again and again. :(
Thank you for proving my point. Not in a good way.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#625984
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 10:05 am
Purple Haize wrote: May 10th, 2021, 8:44 am
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 7:15 am I’m so confused. How in the world did you get those first two statements from either of these videos? Neither come anywhere close to saying any of it. You’re stretching so hard I think you might pull a muscle.
In the first video the professor literally says CRT is based on looking at everything through the prism of race
I watched it a 2nd time and it’s literally not there. What she says is that if you want to understand racial inequality you have to understand the relationship between race and health outcomes, education outcomes, etc. by looking at data points.

That should not be controversial in any sense, but here we are.
You are correct I posted the wrong video. I’ll look for the one I want later. But she does everything BUT say those exact same words. She certainly describes a system where everything is looked at via a historical racial lens. And then offers no solution.

As to your second statement yes it is controversial. If you make bad choices you’ll have bad outcomes. Period. Blaming it on your skin color at this point in American history is only a hindrance. It’s teaching black kids that they are less than and incapable of achievement because of something that happened a Generation or 2 ago. That’s not denying it happened. That’s not denying my friends parents broke the law by entering a BI racial marriage. But it is acknowledging that they are can do that now and most likely be celebrated. It’s not denying the second class status applied to several of my players grandparents but it is acknowledging the opportunities afforded them they can seize that their grandparents could only dream about.
It’s about realizing that CRT is an amorphous concept (‘working’) to make white people guilty and let White Liberals use black Liberals as pawns. Again.
And just to be clear it’s not just Conservatives who are taking issues with it. Because no matter what the concepts are that are being hashed out in Ivory Towers and Law schools, very real and dangerous things are being taught in the name of CRT to the General Public now.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625985
I don’t understand how you can talk about your friend’s parents having an illegal marriage and then proceed to deny the continued effects of these very recent explicitly racist systems (I’m going to put aside implicit racism here). You can’t in 1-2 generations expect them not to continue to have impacts in the black community.

Sure, a lot of the explicit barriers are gone, but you’re starting from behind. If your parents have no generational wealth to give you because they weren’t allowed to buy homes, you’re starting from behind. If your parents are undereducated because they weren’t allowed to attend college, they’re not going to know how to help you navigate the education system. If your home is in a poor inner city because you were purposely excluded from moving to suburbia, which, not-so-coincidentally, is where the factories also moved, your options are going to be more limited. If your parents were denied better paying jobs or advancements that white parents had access to, that’s going to hold you back. If your parents weren’t given the benefits of the GI bill that their white counter-parts were, that’s going to hinder the whole family in moving forward as well.

Sure, take individual responsibility, but why wouldn’t we want to address the after-effects of these (super recent) historical disadvantages as well?

Someone else mentioned loving your neighbor- that’s the burden of loving my neighbor. It’s not just wishing them well, walking away, and leaving them to deal with the burden they inherited. It’s actively helping them in ways that might even make me uncomfortable.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#625986
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 4:19 pm Sure, a lot of the explicit barriers are gone, but you’re starting from behind. If your parents have no generational wealth to give you because they weren’t allowed to buy homes, you’re starting from behind. If your parents are undereducated because they weren’t allowed to attend college, they’re not going to know how to help you navigate the education system. If your home is in a poor inner city because you were purposely excluded from moving to suburbia, which, not-so-coincidentally, is where the factories also moved, your options are going to be more limited. If your parents were denied better paying jobs or advancements that white parents had access to, that’s going to hold you back. If your parents weren’t given the benefits of the GI bill that their white counter-parts were, that’s going to hinder the whole family in moving forward as well.
My parents lived in log cabins with woodstoves and outhouses until they married and moved to Norfolk. The smartest man I ever knew, my father, had an 8th grade education due to dyslexia. While my sister and I were growing up my mother chose to be a stay home Mom and raise us. Therefore they could barely make ends meet. All they could give us was love, prayer, a roof and food. Their prayers were answered when Dr. Falwell allowed my sister to earn the RA position and work her way thru school .... and after knocking on many doors, me landing a $4 an hour job with a decent pay scale if I stuck with it. My parents were thankful for small answered prayers. When times got difficult for Liberty they chip in money they didn't have to keep Doc's dream alive. And by the way, I know a Virginia congressman that had less than we did growing up. There's no place better than America to grow up poor with dreams. Go back and read Chippy post and tell me there is a better place in the world to be black and have dreams.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625987
I don’t doubt your experience or the congressman’s. There will always be individual exceptions on both sides. Disadvantaged white folks, wealthy black folks. That’s why we look at overall trends and data points.

America is a great place and definitely better than it used to be on race relations. That doesn’t mean the work is done. We’re better than ever at treating cancers, we can stop researching now, right?

I can’t speak to whether there’s a better place to be black and have dreams. I’m not black and I’ve never lived anywhere else.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#625988
stokesjokes wrote: May 10th, 2021, 4:19 pm I don’t understand how you can talk about your friend’s parents having an illegal marriage and then proceed to deny the continued effects of these very recent explicitly racist systems (I’m going to put aside implicit racism here). You can’t in 1-2 generations expect them not to continue to have impacts in the black community.

Sure, a lot of the explicit barriers are gone, but you’re starting from behind. If your parents have no generational wealth to give you because they weren’t allowed to buy homes, you’re starting from behind. If your parents are undereducated because they weren’t allowed to attend college, they’re not going to know how to help you navigate the education system. If your home is in a poor inner city because you were purposely excluded from moving to suburbia, which, not-so-coincidentally, is where the factories also moved, your options are going to be more limited. If your parents were denied better paying jobs or advancements that white parents had access to, that’s going to hold you back. If your parents weren’t given the benefits of the GI bill that their white counter-parts were, that’s going to hinder the whole family in moving forward as well.

Sure, take individual responsibility, but why wouldn’t we want to address the after-effects of these (super recent) historical disadvantages as well?

Someone else mentioned loving your neighbor- that’s the burden of loving my neighbor. It’s not just wishing them well, walking away, and leaving them to deal with the burden they inherited. It’s actively nhelping them in ways that might even make me uncomfortable.
Your first paragraph makes 0 sense. Both he and I (and other friends who are in bi racial marriages) talk about how much better it is now than when their parents were around. The respect they have for their parents for going through that is off the chart. And just about every single one of the. (Or their spouse) gets far more heat from the black community about their marriage than any other. You can also take your suggestion of implicit racism on my part and shove it.
Lots of people are starting from behind. Go drive up to Appalachia. Go drive the farm lands of the Midwest. “Generational Wealth” isn’t something my wife or I are gonna get. Why do first Generation immigrants perform so well? Are they not starting out behind? Let’s take a look at say the Asian population. They seem to be doing much better. Or do you classify them as “White”?
Yes take personal responsibility. Which 100% means take advantage of the opportunities you have afforded you that your parents or grandparents did not. Unfortunately the teachings of CRT they are hearing would have them look for a hand out and blame the past rather than look forward. It was mentioned earlier about the Great Society etc. Americans have gone to great lengths to atone for their past sins and shortcomings. Because those things happened and there is no denying it. You talk about loving your neighbor? I do. It isn’t very loving to have you call them a Racist. It’s not loving when kids are being taught that everything is race based. It isn’t very loving when you hurl baseless accusations around. And it 100% isn’t loving when you offer no hope and no solutions. And that is exactly where CRT teachings fail.
So I am done with this topic. It plays into every notion I already had. You even helped out by playing the Race card on me. So go ahead. Wallow in your self pity. Keep blaming the White people for all your troubles. I’m going to be out here in the real world actually doing something to make the lives of everyone I meet better. Regardless of their race.
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By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#625989
I don’t want to respond to the content of your post because, frankly, I’m tired here too.

I did want to say that I didn’t mean to imply any implicit racism on your part, I meant that I only wanted to discuss the effects of the explicitly racist policies and didn’t want to talk about implicit racism. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#626198
Space Force commander fired for comments on Marxist influences in the ranks

Lt. Gen. Stephen Whiting, who heads Space Operations Command, effectively fired Col. Lohmeier on Friday, citing a loss of confidence in his ability to carry out his command of a Space Force unit that detects ballistic missile launches. The firing was first reported Friday by the website Military.com.

In his new book, “Irresistible Revolution: Marxism’s Goal of Conquest & the Unmaking of the American Military,” Col. Lohmeier argued in part that diversity programs and “inclusivity training” can be traced back to so-called critical race theory and its Marxist antecedents.

Far-right political movements are harshly punished, but far-left movements and ideas deserve the same treatment, the author said.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... red-for-c/
By LUDad
Posts
#626346
Liberal democrats did their best in the 60's and 70's to enslave blacks through the welfare system. Get them dependent on the government dole to ensure their votes. Laws insured that unmarried women would maximize income by remaining unmarried. As a result, kids were raised without benefit of a two parent family. Much of today's problems issue from this.
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By Jonathan Carone
Posts
#626976
Justin Gibony - founder of the AND Campaign - did a 12-minute talk for The Gospel Coalition that I think is a great watch for people trying to fight for racial justice from a Christian perspective.



They also have a transcript of the talk if you'd rather read it than watch. Here's his introductory paragraph:

We all hate the lies that falsely accuse us or misrepresent our intentions. We’re rightfully indignant when others bear false witness at our expense or at the expense of those who we deem worthy of our compassion. But what about the lies that serve our purposes? What about the false narratives that absolve us, the cultural myths that glorify us, and the mis-characterizations that obstruct our opposition? My question is, what do we do with the lies that are useful, the lies that artificially boost what we consider to be a good cause? Lies can come in many different forms, intellectual dishonesty, pretext, conflation, overly broad labels, straw man arguments, et cetera. And, unfortunately, the American church’s ongoing debate about racial justice is full of all variety of lies, especially the lies that serve those who would rather not talk about the subject at all.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#626978
Liberty should invite Justin Gibony and Dr Voddie Baucham to an open forum on the subject. Would be interesting listen to. Dr. Baucham most likely would not need notes to read from.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#626981
Is that a shot at Giboney for reading? :roll:

One of the most surprising (and encouraging) things Liberty did last year was a host a book study for the faculty and staff working through a book on the gospel and racism, I don’t remember the name of the book. My wife got to hear from faculty and staff members who shared first-hand experience with this problem and was able to really expand her understanding of what our black brothers and sisters go through and have been through.

Of course the folks at Falkirk didn’t appreciate this brazen liberalizing of the school, so they strong-armed the next study to be a book from an economic theorist that had absolutely nothing to do with the gospel 🤷‍♂️
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