This is the location for conversations that don't fall anywhere else on FlameFans. Whether its politics, culture, the latest techno stuff or just the best places to travel on the web ... this is your forum.

Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

Who will win the election (NOT "who do you WANT to win")

Trump will win both the popular and electoral college.
4
15%
Trump will win the electoral college only.
13
48%
Biden will win both both the popular and electoral college.
10
37%
Biden will win the electoral college only.
No votes
0%
#613463
Yeah, I don’t mean to give him too much credit, but he did what none of the supposedly fiscal conservatives we’ve had in the last 50 years could do. He at least didn’t get in the way.

For me, it’s a sign-post: a lot of conservatives would say they support the republican ticket because of economic policies, but, most of the time, those policies don’t end up being fiscally conservative.
#613480
thepostman wrote: October 31st, 2020, 7:41 pm And then Trump came along and INCREASED spending even more and the deficit has grown.

So I mean, if your a fiscal conservative then you can't be too happy. I know I'm not but with that said, the country will not come to an end. We will be alright.
I thought you were done talking politics? I’m very disappointed in you
thepostman liked this
#613487
You guys don’t know your history. Newt did it on purpose.

I’m pulling this from Wikipedia because it’s well summarized. It’s also very well sourced if you want to follow those rabbit trails:

“A number of scholars have credited Gingrich with playing a key role in undermining democratic norms in the United States, and hastening political polarization and partisan prejudice. According to Harvard University political scientists Daniel Ziblatt and Steven Levitsky, Gingrich's speakership had a profound and lasting impact on American politics and health of American democracy. They argue that Gingrich instilled a "combative" approach in the Republican Party, where hateful language and hyper-partisanship became commonplace, and where democratic norms were abandoned. Gingrich frequently questioned the patriotism of Democrats, called them corrupt, compared them to fascists, and accused them of wanting to destroy the United States. Gingrich furthermore oversaw several major government shutdowns.

University of Maryland political scientist Lilliana Mason uses Gingrich's instructions to Republicans to use words such as “betray, bizarre, decay, destroy, devour, greed, lie, pathetic, radical, selfish, shame, sick, steal, and traitors” about Democrats as an example of a breach in social norms and exacerbation of partisan prejudice.”
#613488
Tip O’Neil represented the status quo of the Republicans compromising and working with the Dems at the time Newt started waging his campaign, so of course he would have been one of the first to be villainized in this way.

Gingrich would go into the house floor on off hours and attack the Dems for hours in an empty room just so the CSPAN cameras could broadcast it.
#613490
Did you just seriously cite Wikipedia as a factual source of information? :lol:

To say that America has never been divided politically until the 1990s is pure cow fertilizer.
#613499
stokesjokes wrote: November 1st, 2020, 7:56 am Tip O’Neil represented the status quo of the Republicans compromising and working with the Dems at the time Newt started waging his campaign, so of course he would have been one of the first to be villainized in this way.

Gingrich would go into the house floor on off hours and attack the Dems for hours in an empty room just so the CSPAN cameras could broadcast it.
Ignoring the Wikipedia citation you actually stated why Newt was different and needed without knowing it
“...status quo of Republicans compromising and working with Dems...”. No mention of Democrats compromising and working with Republicans
#613506
jbock13 wrote: November 1st, 2020, 8:48 am Did you just seriously cite Wikipedia as a factual source of information? :lol:

To say that America has never been divided politically until the 1990s is pure cow fertilizer.
First of all, Wikipedia is the most peer-reviewed source in the world 8)
2nd, that’s why I mentioned how well sourced Wikipedia is on this- Wikipedia is a great amalgamator of information- but you do have to check into the sources. This statement alone: “ A number of scholars have credited Gingrich with playing a key role in undermining democratic norms in the United States, and hastening political polarization and partisan prejudice,” has 11 sourced footnotes on it. The primary information is everywhere if you want to find it.

3rd, I never said there wasn’t division until the 90s, obviously that’s not true. He definitely intensified and expanded it though, he would tell you that himself. It’s what he was trying to do. Besides, he started doing his schtick in the late 70s/early 80s.
#613509
stokesjokes wrote: November 1st, 2020, 11:09 am Well, yeah, the Dems were in power at the time. The conventional wisdom was “play ball, move to the center” to gain more influence. The Newt Gingrich playbook was radicalize and vilify. It worked.
That’s because the ball always started in the Democrats court. Newt changed the game to have the ball start in the Republicans court. Obviously those used to the previous 40 years are going to see it as confrontational. They did t get to set the agenda Newt did
#613563
Clinton was in the center, not the Dems. He was a really a center/right Reagan Democrat. 1980-2008 was the era of Reagan. Gingrich was more of a progressive-conservative--which means he favored reforms and progress over traditionalism. Liberals usually mess stuff up and conservatives refuse to fix it. Gingrich had ideas, and he and Clinton worked well together and passed a lot of positive legislation together. I give them both credit. It's the the parties that devoured the other's leader, and they both got taken down. Neither guy was perfect, but they were good politicians. I Miss the 90s.
Purple Haize liked this
#613573
paradox wrote: November 1st, 2020, 9:24 pm Clinton was in the center, not the Dems. He was a really a center/right Reagan Democrat. 1980-2008 was the era of Reagan. Gingrich was more of a progressive-conservative--which means he favored reforms and progress over traditionalism. Liberals usually mess stuff up and conservatives refuse to fix it. Gingrich had ideas, and he and Clinton worked well together and passed a lot of positive legislation together. I give them both credit. It's the the parties that devoured the other's leader, and they both got taken down. Neither guy was perfect, but they were good politicians. I Miss the 90s.
We live in a different word today. Socialist, boarder line marxists have taken control of one party. The standoff is real these days.
#613594
TH Spangler wrote: November 2nd, 2020, 6:45 am
paradox wrote: November 1st, 2020, 9:24 pm Clinton was in the center, not the Dems. He was a really a center/right Reagan Democrat. 1980-2008 was the era of Reagan. Gingrich was more of a progressive-conservative--which means he favored reforms and progress over traditionalism. Liberals usually mess stuff up and conservatives refuse to fix it. Gingrich had ideas, and he and Clinton worked well together and passed a lot of positive legislation together. I give them both credit. It's the the parties that devoured the other's leader, and they both got taken down. Neither guy was perfect, but they were good politicians. I Miss the 90s.
We live in a different word today. Socialist, boarder line marxists have taken control of one party. The standoff is real these days.
And fascists have overtaken the GOP
#613604
lynchburgwildcats wrote: November 2nd, 2020, 12:24 pm
TH Spangler wrote: November 2nd, 2020, 6:45 am
paradox wrote: November 1st, 2020, 9:24 pm Clinton was in the center, not the Dems. He was a really a center/right Reagan Democrat. 1980-2008 was the era of Reagan. Gingrich was more of a progressive-conservative--which means he favored reforms and progress over traditionalism. Liberals usually mess stuff up and conservatives refuse to fix it. Gingrich had ideas, and he and Clinton worked well together and passed a lot of positive legislation together. I give them both credit. It's the the parties that devoured the other's leader, and they both got taken down. Neither guy was perfect, but they were good politicians. I Miss the 90s.
We live in a different word today. Socialist, boarder line marxists have taken control of one party. The standoff is real these days.
And fascists have overtaken the GOP
Okay :roll:
#613605
So, the Dems are gonna rush in and save of us all from fascism? Sounds like an exciting time to be alive. The GOP is double-secret Nazi for sure. I would be double-suspicious about libertarians as well--especially with all that personal liberty stuff.
NCAA Realignment Megathread

At what point in history was the ACC ever any bett[…]

Dondi Costin - LU President

With all due respect, Atrain was in Dallas in his […]

LaTech

I also keep tab with JMU because there is a player[…]

JMU for 6 games

The fact of the matter is, JMU and Liberty could n[…]