A Sea Of Red

Forbes wrote:Sep 21, 2020,09:00am EDT

Why Do Republicans Send Their Kids To College?

Richard Vedder- Contributor
Education
I am Distinguished Professor of Economics Emeritus at Ohio University.

Inside Higher Ed recently reported that over five times as much money has been given by higher education donors to Joe Biden than to Donald Trump. Among professors, the ratio exceeds seven to one. Countless surveys show that the ratio of Democrats to Republicans in the social science and humanities areas of universities is even more lopsided. I once met a Republican sociologist and was so astonished that I asked for his autograph.

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I think that's a great question, and he had a great defense of the question, but the article didn't go anywhere. Did I miss something or did he just end with restating the problem college presidents face?

IRS should audit anyone who gives money to Biden.

It felt like a grand rhetorical that didn't really land. I did appreciate the shout-out to my son's school as a state university that tilts right.

Keep in mind that the author is a retired ECON prof. They tend to be more trends-focused than most in academia.

Sly Fox wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2020, 3:27 pm It felt like a grand rhetorical that didn't really land.

I think that's what I was disappointed in. It was such a great question that I'd never thought about. I was hoping he'd have some insight.

Well try becoming a doctor or an engineer without a college degree. My guess is that will go nowhere.

lynchburgwildcats wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2020, 7:23 pm Well try becoming a doctor or an engineer without a college degree. My guess is that will go nowhere.

I am an engineer with a general studies Assoc. degree. It can be done. Maybe not for a "legal" doctor.

To me, one of the values college brings beyond a degree, is exposure to different perspectives and ways to think about the world. That's one way to answer the question posed in the article. Obviously the most liberal universities do a terrible job by shouting down and disallowing conservative voices, but being cloistered in a conservative silo isn't any better. If I want my kids to be well-rounded adults, I want them to have exposure to outside ideas, and not in the form of criticism.

I think its because you assume YOUR kid will come through unscathed. as simple as that.

RubberMallet wrote: ↑September 23rd, 2020, 4:34 pm I think its because you assume YOUR kid will come through unscathed. as simple as that.

Unscathed is a relative term. I wouldn't be particularly bothered if my kids developed views that were dissimilar to my own.

yeah thats fine but is not the norm historically. we want our kid to learn about other people and other world views but we don't want them lambasted over the head with them. Universities are a harsh avenue to learn about other worldviews regardless of the prep work you've done prior.

But youth breeds liberalism IMO. you have no stuff. and then once you get stuff, you want to keep your stuff, and you grow more conservative.

In general, college is built around make believe whataboutism and the theoretical. Even in my business classes much of what i learned has never came to any real fruition in real life. And that is because the stereotype of "those who can't do, teach" is steeped somewhat in reality. The exception could be hard sciences but even there is ton of political pull.

clearly there are area of studies where you don't necessarily have to worry about a ton of political bs, but many universities have pre requesite courses full of professors who's goal is to "break" in a student. I went through it, and there are countless other conservatives who can attest to it.

Yeah, and I think there's a few other factors at play as to why the youth and academia are more liberal/progressive as well. If we break it down to base definitions, conservatism is based around conserving things as they are (or taking them back to what they were), progressivism is based around moving things in a different direction.

So a kid who has a head full of ideas about how the world should be is going to be seen as progressive. Once they grow older and society has hit those expectations and started to move past them, they want to conserve those same ideas. It's not necessarily their ideas that have changed, but society around them. Think about things like allowing women in the workplace or equal rights for minorities. These were progressive ideas for our grandparents, but you'd be hard pressed to find a conservative who doesn't believe in them now.

I think on the academia side, one of the factors that pushes towards progressive mindsets is the research focus. Research is almost necessarily progressive. You're trying to find new things, look at new angles, push boundaries, etc. I don't think this is nefarious, but there are some, as you mentioned, who push these ideals indelicately.

I think we're also operating on mistaken assumptions about college degrees. Liberal arts degrees aren't meant to be practical. Sure, there will be practical courses along the way, but there's a reason you can't just go through and take exclusively business classes to get a business degree. Part of the point is to be exposed to and learn how to navigate ideas while not necessarily adopting them. Kind of a "not what to think, but how to think" idea. Where these professors get off course is when they are deliberately trying to do the former.

RubberMallet wrote: ↑September 24th, 2020, 11:59 amand then once you get stuff, you want to keep your stuff, and you grow more conservative.

That line of reasoning has been repeatedly debunked.

stokesjokes wrote: ↑September 24th, 2020, 1:52 pm Think about things like allowing women in the workplace or equal rights for minorities. These were progressive ideas for our grandparents, but you'd be hard pressed to find a conservative who doesn't believe in them now.

Hard pressed? One of the favorites to be the new SC Justice thinks this type of crap and she’s a woman.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refine ... maids-tale

As I've made more money I've actually gotten more liberal. I see the things we're lucky enough to afford that should be much more accessible and realize how lucky we are but also how unfair many things are.

lynchburgwildcats wrote:

RubberMallet wrote: ↑September 24th, 2020, 11:59 amand then once you get stuff, you want to keep your stuff, and you grow more conservative.

That line of reasoning has been repeatedly debunked.

no...no it hasn't.

Jonathan Carone wrote:As I've made more money I've actually gotten more liberal. I see the things we're lucky enough to afford that should be much more accessible and realize how lucky we are but also how unfair many things are.

you still haven't hit it yet. you are in limbo. in accumulation stage. and sure i'm talking mostly fiscally, but the relationship between fiscal and social conservatism is a interesting balance. I'm slightly left of center socially. but i'm bit farther right fiscally (I don't mind safety nets for the bottom of wage earners). If i was more socially conservative, i'd be much farther right fiscally.

Post accumulation we begin to preserve our capital and lessening our tax burden. I have stuff i want to keep my stuff is more steeped in aging than it is necessarily some decision we make. Sometime in our 40's our brains begin to lessen our curiosity and "progressivism". We react slower and begin to hold onto familiarity, routine, and are more likely to accept and want to preserve the norms they are used to (conservative).

You also were likely raised as i was in a UBER conservative household. I rebelled really my SR of highschool and the lion share of my friends and I were rah rah RATM type of guys and gals. Most of us now in our stages of life are most certainly way more conservative than we were in HS and College and even in our 20's. We've had this discussion at work, many of my late 20's-30's cohorts can feel the peel back of the far left they gravitated too in youth. That doesn't mean they listen to rush limbaugh and share ben shapiro articles amongst each other, they are just more closer to the center then they are to one side.

lynchburgwildcats wrote: ↑September 22nd, 2020, 7:23 pm Well try becoming a doctor or an engineer without a college degree. My guess is that will go nowhere.

I believe one can become an engineer without a college degree.

its possible the path is likely much more difficult. The big company in our hometown is John Deere. John deere has currently degree-less engineers on staff but they are older and 10-15 years within retirement age. there is no path to being an engineer at deere without a degree. There is opportunity for JD to see potential and put you through school, but in the end, you won't be an engineer without that.

One can also become a lawyer without going to law school.

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2020, 10:35 am One can also become a lawyer without going to law school.

Sure, in some places you only need to pass the bar, which law school certainly helps with.

Or you can be a lawyer by representing yourself, but as the saying goes, “a person who represents himself has a fool for a client.”

RubberMallet wrote: ↑September 25th, 2020, 9:52 am

Jonathan Carone wrote:As I've made more money I've actually gotten more liberal. I see the things we're lucky enough to afford that should be much more accessible and realize how lucky we are but also how unfair many things are.

you still haven't hit it yet. you are in limbo. in accumulation stage. and sure i'm talking mostly fiscally, but the relationship between fiscal and social conservatism is a interesting balance. I'm slightly left of center socially. but i'm bit farther right fiscally (I don't mind safety nets for the bottom of wage earners). If i was more socially conservative, i'd be much farther right fiscally.

Post accumulation we begin to preserve our capital and lessening our tax burden. I have stuff i want to keep my stuff is more steeped in aging than it is necessarily some decision we make. Sometime in our 40's our brains begin to lessen our curiosity and "progressivism". We react slower and begin to hold onto familiarity, routine, and are more likely to accept and want to preserve the norms they are used to (conservative).

You also were likely raised as i was in a UBER conservative household. I rebelled really my SR of highschool and the lion share of my friends and I were rah rah RATM type of guys and gals. Most of us now in our stages of life are most certainly way more conservative than we were in HS and College and even in our 20's. We've had this discussion at work, many of my late 20's-30's cohorts can feel the peel back of the far left they gravitated too in youth. That doesn't mean they listen to rush limbaugh and share ben shapiro articles amongst each other, they are just more closer to the center then they are to one side.

F*! You, I won’t do what you tell me!

(I still bust out the RATM sometimes in my mid-30s)

Currently, 4 states allow one to take Bar Exam without law school. (Virginia, Washington, Vermont and California)

It's called "reading the law". I didn't know this until I attended a conference in Richmond earlier this year (before governor banned everything). I was talking with an attractive attorney who works for a big law firm in Richmond. She told me about the program, when I told her I'd always dreamed of taking the bar exam. If I were about 20 years younger, I'd attempt it.

stokesjokes wrote:
F*! You, I won’t do what you tell me!

(I still bust out the RATM sometimes in my mid-30s)

it comes on in various playlists and what not, and while i enjoy the music, i'm more like "hey buddy, calm down a bit, i'd like to be as angry as you are still but I got bills and stuff"

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑September 25th, 2020, 11:27 am Currently, 4 states allow one to take Bar Exam without law school. (Virginia, Washington, Vermont and California)

It's called "reading the law". I didn't know this until I attended a conference in Richmond earlier this year (before governor banned everything). I was talking with an attractive attorney who works for a big law firm in Richmond. She told me about the program, when I told her I'd always dreamed of taking the bar exam. If I were about 20 years younger, I'd attempt it.

Sounds like you were really invested in this conversation