[RubberMallet]

I have nothing against homeschooling on its face. I know my wife and I could do a better job than the school system of educating our children, and even socialization isn't really an issue, given church, sports, community, etc. So, I don't accept the canards usually leveled at homeschooling (inferior education and lack of social skills). The two things that make homeschooling unattractive to me are:

1) Adversity as part of the education and socialization. An important element of the growing up experience is dealing with bad situations (e.g., bad teachers, bad peers, bad situations). I think shielding kids from these does them a disservice. To learn, perform, and achieve in the face of and in spite of these things is sometimes more valuable than pure academic learning.

2) Hiding our candle under a bushel. By pulling kids out of the school system, we deprive teachers and other kids of the example of sharp, impressive kids who could have a positive impact on others in a school setting. Intelligently and effectively countering secular humanism, demonstrating a "godly walk and conversation," and excelling in the school setting are important missionary opportunities.

Conditions might deteriorate to the point where the only thing to do is to pull the kids out of the system, but I don't think we're to that point yet.

I think that these decisions for our kids are always conditional. There shouldn't be any absolutes either way. Every family and student has different needs and I love a robust system that has multiple solutions to meet their needs.

I agree. I will add that I owe our local teachers and students nothing. at least I don't feel that responsibility outweighs the education of my children. Even so, homeschooling our children in a way frees up resources to allow educators more time ad ability for those other students. I'm still paying for those resources in taxes (we recieve 0 help from the state here in il).

and in most instances our children have frequent opportunities outside of a school setting to shine their light. for the most part they are ill prepared as even college students to line up against secular teachers and professors and it will have negative consequences. my own path (which was corrected but by the grace of God) was a result of this. i lost countless years of opportunities.

But as you said, the same can happen in private schools, the same can happen in the world of homeschooling. We have friends who's homeschooled children felt so left out of opportunities that 3 out of the 4 children are wayward in their faith because of the anger they have towards their parents.

We all can only do what we can do and make those decisions hopefully as we felt lead by the spirit to do. Its comforting knowing that none of it is of our own will.

[Rubicon]

I think that these decisions for our kids are always conditional. There shouldn't be any absolutes either way. Every family and student has different needs and I love a robust system that has multiple solutions to meet their needs.

Very good point. One size does not fit all, and families should do what they feel is best for themselves, and for others.

[Yacht Rock]

Well, the issue isn’t whether teachers want to or are capable of delivering 100% of content or not, there are mandates by each state in this area during the quarantine and that has greatly reduced the effectiveness during quarantine.

I think you said you're from IL, right?

You can read the guidelines the Dept of Ed issued for your state to get an idea of why students are seeing less work during this time.

https://www.isbe.net/Documents/RL-Recom ... -27-20.pdf

Most states have adopted similar guidelines. There are districts and areas that are capable of doing much more, but the equitable factor includes elements of technology and family makeup.

For example, if a household is blessed enough to have two working parents that weren't furloughed during the quarantine, it's not uncommon for an older child to become a caregiver for younger children. Internet access and a district supplied device won't solve that, unfortunately. Instead, teachers have to move to asynchronous models and reduce the workload and expectations during this time.

One blessing is that this happened (at least in our part of the world) at the end of the school year. Many classes had already hit upon most/all of their standards and competencies and would be using the last nine weeks to work on assessing those standards and competencies.

[rogers3]

Sad that public school students spend 25% of their time prepping for the SOLs. My neighbor is all fired up about it. She is fine with the special needs students she works with having a water down experience, but her child, a Dunbar School for Innovation 8th grader, is also doing nothing and she feels shortchanged.

[Sly Fox]

Adversity as part of the education and socialization. An important element of the growing up experience is dealing with bad situations (e.g., bad teachers, bad peers, bad situations). I think shielding kids from these does them a disservice. To learn, perform, and achieve in the face of and in spite of these things is sometimes more valuable than pure academic learning.

I am not sure what you have seen of homeschooling that would imply bad situations do not occur, but that hasn't been our experience. Homeschool sports is very much like every other type of sports in regard to bad behavior. If anything the academic rigor of my high school kids has forced them to overocme obstacles that I never had to face in my pubic school career. And the critical thinking and presentation skills that are at the forefront of homeschooling has led to some interesting discussions in our household. I love that my son is able to argue cogently on behalf of political perspectives that are diametrically opposed to my own while justifying his positions with Scripture.

[Yacht Rock]

Sad that public school students spend 25% of their time prepping for the SOLs. My neighbor is all fired up about it. She is fine with the special needs students she works with having a water down experience, but her child, a Dunbar School for Innovation 8th grader, is also doing nothing and she feels shortchanged.

Yeah, in the end it all depends on what "prepping for the SOL" looks like.

When I say that a lot of time is spent assessing learning, it certainly isn't referring to the SOL's alone. A lot of it is work that culminates in a project that students have been working toward all year, etc.

Overall, I have mixed feelings about SOL testing. I do think that many give them too much weight.

In my AP classes, obviously the AP test is important but I try to tell my kids that what we learn together in class is much more important than how they do in a small snapshot of their learning.

[Purple Haize]

Sad that public school students spend 25% of their time prepping for the SOLs. My neighbor is all fired up about it. She is fine with the special needs students she works with having a water down experience, but her child, a Dunbar School for Innovation 8th grader, is also doing nothing and she feels shortchanged.

Just imagine how much extra time teachers have to put in to the SOL’s.
There’s the right way to do it.
There’s the wrong way to do it
There the way the SOL wants it done.

[ballcoach15]

SOLs should be eliminated. Too much emphasis is placed on them, not to mention time and money.

[Rubicon]

I agree. I will add that I owe our local teachers and students nothing. at least I don't feel that responsibility outweighs the education of my children.

Very much agree. I don't feel that we owe anything to the public schools; I'm looking at it more in terms of not leaving opportunities to "leaven the dough" on the table, to be a light and an example --- and to gain experiences that aren't possible in homeschooling. These considerations are definitely more "me and us" centered, rather than what we "owe" the system.

Even so, homeschooling our children in a way frees up resources to allow educators more time ad ability for those other students. I'm still paying for those resources in taxes (we recieve 0 help from the state here in il).

As a public school teacher of 18 years, I have to laugh when districts and colleagues rail at people who choose charter schools or homeschooling --- but in the same breath, complain of class size, overcrowding, scarcity of resources, etc. A robust system of choice does nothing but good for resource allocation, class size, overcrowding, etc. What they really are concerned about is the per student allotment not going to their district/school ($5000 per student in Arizona).

and in most instances our children have frequent opportunities outside of a school setting to shine their light.

They do, but not the same ones, or the same type. From a standpoint of "having your lines in the water," I think there are more lines and opportunities to "get some bites" when strong families participate in the public system. They aren't out anything, since the family makes up for deficiencies in the school system.

for the most part they are ill prepared as even college students to line up against secular teachers and professors and it will have negative consequences. my own path (which was corrected but by the grace of God) was a result of this. i lost countless years of opportunities.

But as you said, the same can happen in private schools, the same can happen in the world of homeschooling. We have friends who's homeschooled children felt so left out of opportunities that 3 out of the 4 children are wayward in their faith because of the anger they have towards their parents.

We all can only do what we can do and make those decisions hopefully as we felt lead by the spirit to do. Its comforting knowing that none of it is of our own will.

Amen! After all we can do, our kids have their agency and sometimes disappoint us. Parents can be overbearing, and sometimes there is resentment on the part of kids.

[Rubicon]

I am not sure what you have seen of homeschooling that would imply bad situations do not occur, but that hasn't been our experience. Homeschool sports is very much like every other type of sports in regard to bad behavior. If anything the academic rigor of my high school kids has forced them to overcome obstacles that I never had to face in my public school career. And the critical thinking and presentation skills that are at the forefront of homeschooling has led to some interesting discussions in our household. I love that my son is able to argue cogently on behalf of political perspectives that are diametrically opposed to my own while justifying his positions with Scripture.

Arizona invented the charter school phenomenon, and its impact on education overall in the state makes our experience somewhat different. For example, homeschooled students can participate in school sports and clubs (I had two homeschoolers play baseball for me at the high school). I guess that is not the case in other states.

The "bad situations" that occur in a school setting are different than those that occur in a home or co-op setting. I'm thinking of things like classmate drama (including the scope and kinds), fighting with the bureaucracy, dealing with aggressive secularism, dealing with the inefficiencies and absurdities of the system (don't even get me started on that), dealing with really bad teachers and classes, etc.

[RubberMallet]

They do, but not the same ones, or the same type. From a standpoint of "having your lines in the water," I think there are more lines and opportunities to "get some bites" when strong families participate in the public system. They aren't out anything, since the family makes up for deficiencies in the school system.

i understand, i'm just not willing to have my line in such turbulent waters. a way over exaggerated analogy is that people in strip clubs need the Lord but as a male i'm not equipped to go there and witness to patrons and dancers. the potential for the opposite effect is not worth the opportunity. once again, tons of great christian kids make their way through public school, don't take i feel sending your kids to public school is a death sentence.

[Sly Fox]

It is difficult to have a conversation with non-homechooling folks without decades-old stereotypes becoming the crux of the discussion. Everybody on this board remembers those folks from their LU experience. My son takes great pride that most people are typically shocked when they discover he homeschools. Wait, he's not a sheltered social misfit who has been brainwashed by his parents? How could that be?

Are there still those stereotypical culotte-wearing examples all over the place? Yes. Is that still the norm? Of course not. But I firmly defend the rights of parents to make those decisions.

I am sending my son off to one of the largest state universities in the nation with full confidence that he is well prepared to manage challenges to his belief structure. I know because he puts me to the test everyday. Every. Day. Now his ability to handle the distraction of girls has been his kryptonite for years already. He seems to learn the hard way and I suspect that will continue long after he's finally off my payroll.

[Purple Haize]

It is difficult to have a conversation with non-homechooling folks without decades-old stereotypes becoming the crux of the discussion. Everybody on this board remembers those folks from their LU experience. My son takes great pride that most people are typically shocked when they discover he homeschools. Wait, he's not a sheltered social misfit who has been brainwashed by his parents? How could that be?

Are there still those stereotypical culotte-wearing examples all over the place? Yes. Is that still the norm? Of course not. But I firmly defend the rights of parents to make those decisions.

I am sending my son off to one of the largest state universities in the nation with full confidence that he is well prepared to manage challenges to his belief structure. I know because he puts me to the test everyday. Every. Day. Now his ability to handle the distraction of girls has been his kryptonite for years already. He seems to learn the hard way and I suspect that will continue long after he's finally off my payroll.

It’s a lot easier to become more socially acclimated now than “back in the day” and it was always one of the biggest knocks on homeschooling. Now, to me it least , you are seeing groups of parents homeschooling and it’s taking the place of the small independent Christian schools. IMO homeschooling in a group setting is a much more viable option than back in the day and with The Rona shutdowns I can see it becoming more acceptable in secular circles

[RubberMallet]

Before I got to Liberty my exposure to homeschooling wasn't a great in my opinion. one close family were very lax in their schooling and very social they were the ones who in my head were "doing it right" the other were pretty much isolationists. they had 6 kids and didn't participate in youth group or any activity that put them with other kids. the kids were kind of awkward but the parents were really great people so it was very odd.

i move into the dorms and a handful of the people i began to greatly admire i find out were homeshooled. you wouldn't have been able to tell. it was amazing.

after i graduated, i went back home and the lax family kids had struggles in college. they embraced the social aspect but really struggled intellectually with the concepts they were learning. But overall...they survived and outside your typical trip ups and life (father died of cancer), their kids are well adjusted. meanwhile the overtly strict family it was pretty amazing. they were flourishing in college, 2 went the military and loved it. all are well adjusted adults.

it totally changed my willingness to do it. teach your kids how to communicate, give them a good education and they will adapt and be fine. required socialization with other undeveloped miscreants is totally unnecessary