[Yacht Rock]

Now I'm not sure why continuing to cut benefits from federal employees is the answer in any of this.

Some guy on TV said it once. That makes it very important.

I think it's hilarious that he thinks opportunity in the private workforce is so terrible.

[TH Spangler]

No argument. Just tring to point out what's happened to the private sector compared to the public sector the past 20 years. And mostly with the high school and some college group. Public sector pay and benefits are not to high. Private sector has gotten the short end of the stick from the polices Washington has pushed for some time now.

And we have no business in communist China. We are way better.

[Purple Haize]

Do you see any of the benefit of overseas manufacturing?

What kind of device are you using to post on this message board? How were you able to afford it?

You want America to go back to being a manufacturing center but are you prepared for embracing a lifestyle of austerity to make that happen?

I recently learned apple used a lot of forced Chinese labor, especially before they were called out on it. Same with Niki. I posted in another thread about it. I said we should all be ashamed. And yes I am.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-f ... ory-2020-3

Persecution, slavery and mass rape? I'm not okay with it at any price. I'll do without my phone.

So here’s the deal If we bring a bunch of manufacturing back to the States that will obviously raise the cost of those manufactured goods simply because we pay American workers more. However, since there will now be a class of citizens making a decent wage and you will have ancillary businesses popping up around the manufacturing sites, will it make that much of a difference? I have never seen any analysis or debate on that. Just “ if you want cheap goods out source”. “If you want American jobs it will cost more”.
Yes I like the cost of my inexpensive goods
Yes I want American Manufacturing to come back
Yes I know it will cost me more. But how much? Will this be a rising tide lifts all boats thing?
What I do know is that our American supply chain in all things is dangerously exposed.

[thepostman]

So a personal story. My wife is the daughter of missionaries. They were missionaries in Indonesia and they kind of gave me a different perspective on manufacturing in these Asian countries. These places may seem low paying to us but it is some of the best jobs these people can find. It's is the lifeblood for many people. I am not an advocate for mistreatment of people but we also have to realize our culture isn't the world's culture. When we advocate to shut some places overseas down a ton of people are going to go hungry. My wife's family has seen this happen with their own eyes and it is heartbreaking.

Again, I want our companies to treat people well so hopefully my point makes sense.

I do want jobs to come back to America but at this point are they jobs Americans would take? Who knows. It's very complicated and again not an area I am extremely knowledgeable of.

[Purple Haize]

So a personal story. My wife is the daughter of missionaries. They were missionaries in Indonesia and they kind of gave me a different perspective on manufacturing in these Asian countries. These places may seem low paying to us but it is some of the best jobs these people can find. It's is the lifeblood for many people. I am not an advocate for mistreatment of people but we also have to realize our culture isn't the world's culture. When we advocate to shut some places overseas down a ton of people are going to go hungry. My wife's family has seen this happen with their own eyes and it is heartbreaking.

Again, I want our companies to treat people well so hopefully my point makes sense.

I do want jobs to come back to America but at this point are they jobs Americans would take? Who knows. It's very complicated and again not an area I am extremely knowledgeable of.

100% agree. What we see as a low wage feeds their family for a week. But if it’s being made there it’s not being made here. There is a need for imports. Not arguing that. But the pendulum needs to swing back

[thepostman]

I certainly agree with that. I do like what this administration is doing in that regard but is it too little too late at this point?

[TH Spangler]

I understand what you're saying. People need jobs, food around the world. It troubles me more when Communist labor and capitalist greed get together.

Saw an interview with Mark Cuban, he's helping Trump bring manufacturing home. He said it will be advanced manufacturing when it returns. It will take 1/3 as many workers but be so efficient it will be able to kick Chinas butt. The jobs will be middleclass. He suggest a 19% taxes on advanced manufacturing goods. Use the money to strengthen Medicare and Social Security.

[Yacht Rock]

Do you see any of the benefit of overseas manufacturing?

What kind of device are you using to post on this message board? How were you able to afford it?

You want America to go back to being a manufacturing center but are you prepared for embracing a lifestyle of austerity to make that happen?

I recently learned apple used a lot of forced Chinese labor, especially before they were called out on it. Same with Niki. I posted in another thread about it. I said we should all be ashamed. And yes I am.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-f ... ory-2020-3

Persecution, slavery and mass rape? I'm not okay with it at any price. I'll do without my phone.

So here’s the deal If we bring a bunch of manufacturing back to the States that will obviously raise the cost of those manufactured goods simply because we pay American workers more. However, since there will now be a class of citizens making a decent wage and you will have ancillary businesses popping up around the manufacturing sites, will it make that much of a difference? I have never seen any analysis or debate on that. Just “ if you want cheap goods out source”. “If you want American jobs it will cost more”.
Yes I like the cost of my inexpensive goods
Yes I want American Manufacturing to come back
Yes I know it will cost me more. But how much? Will this be a rising tide lifts all boats thing?
What I do know is that our American supply chain in all things is dangerously exposed.

The supply chain is an interesting monster where there aren't a lot of easy answers.

Based on costs alone, I believe that some products will cease to exist as they won't be profitable to produce any longer or they will become ultra luxury products due to increased price.

I don't believe that we can go backwards to the point where massive manufacturing is done in the US. I don't believe the human capital is there, ready to do those jobs in mass numbers. The thing that is vital to understand is that it's not uncommon for one factory overseas to have 100,000 workers.

Can we sustain that in the US?

I believe that there is much more potential for US workers in the service sector, where there is a ton of growth (and well paying jobs).

One of the reasons I became a teacher was to help prep this next generation for a world where they can make a lot of money without having to go into massive college debt. I've seen a lot of opportunities for people to do that, if they want it.

The communist regime in China is a terrible thing. The people there, though, are wonderful. Just like Postman said, for a lot of folks, the factory work is a badge of honor and they are able to create a life for their family that wasn't possible a generation before. I've had the pleasure of meeting many folks who work in some of the biggest factories in the Guangzhou province. They are good people.

[TH Spangler]

"The communist regime in China is a terrible thing. The people there, though, are wonderful."

I'll give you that much.

[Purple Haize]

A factory overseas can have 100k workers because the cost of human Capital is cheap. But would a more automated plant in the States requiring a labor force that is numerically sustainable be competitive? That goes back to my original question.
The US needs to be in the business of making things again. The selling point for NAFTA etc back in the day was “Would you rather be the person that makes the thing or the supervisor of the making of the thing”. Would you rather make the widget or finance the making of the widget. Right now we aren’t doing much of either. There is an absolute instrindic need for a nation to build things. I didn’t think so 25-30 years ago. I was more “let someone else build it so I can buy it cheaper”. I’ve changed my mind on that stance. More so in the last 6 months

[TH Spangler]

We are vulnerable right now. China is stealing our next generation technology and applying it to their military. We are even starting to depend on them for our militay readiness. I dont know how a service economy country does going against a manufacturing economy country in a militay crisis.

[Yacht Rock]

First, a factory doesn't have 100K workers because it's cheap. It has 100K workers because we have a culture of consumption and that many workers are needed to meet the need.

In addition, high tech robotics and advanced manufacturing are already being used in those massive factories. There's not a magic way we can manufacture things in the US that would require fewer people. If anything, we might need more people.

That's if we want to reach a comparable scale. We can't reach that scale so it just wouldn't happen. That's where we would see a lot of businesses just cease to exist.

There are issues with state sponsored corporate espionage and China has some of the worst IP enforcement. Those are valid concerns. Military readiness is also a valid concern.

I just think that those issues can be solved without divesting ourselves out of the region and falling flat on our faces trying to "make America make again."

I think corporate investment into China gives us more influence than we would have if we removed ourselves from the equation.

Obviously we have different perspectives on this and feel differently about what a solution looks like.

[Purple Haize]

Yeah, why would we ever want to make America great?

[TH Spangler]

Yachts view is exactly what has been pitched the past 25 years. Not only have we offshored millions of jobs, the Chinese communist government has become our Frankinstine.

[TH Spangler]

""I just think that those issues can be solved without divesting ourselves out of the region and falling flat on our faces trying to "make America make again.""

That says it all. After doing it your way for 30 years here we are. A virus from China has us locked in our homes for a month. In just 4 weeks we have food lines all over the country. Kids can't go to school, so we have school buses delivering government lunches to the children's bus stop because their parent can't find a private sector job that's pays enough for them to have an emergency fund. We have enough hunger here to be able to find labor. And like I said earlier, fix our imagration system and increase "legal" imagration for more labor .... here.

[TH Spangler]

http://www.endslaverynow.org/act/action ... r-in-china

Goggle ..... chinese forced labor internship

[jbock13]

I understand what you're saying. People need jobs, food around the world. It troubles me more when Communist labor and capitalist greed get together.

Saw an interview with Mark Cuban, he's helping Trump bring manufacturing home. He said it will be advanced manufacturing when it returns. It will take 1/3 as many workers but be so efficient it will be able to kick Chinas butt. The jobs will be middleclass. He suggest a 19% taxes on advanced manufacturing goods. Use the money to strengthen Medicare and Social Security.

I'm okay with punishing China, but why do we need to strengthen Medicare and Social Security? Both are examples of generational theft by Ponzi scheme.

[Yacht Rock]

If you think lack of income is why people don’t have an emergency fund, you haven’t been paying attention to our culture.

Like I said, we have very different perspectives on this issue and we obviously won’t agree.

[TH Spangler]

I understand what you're saying. People need jobs, food around the world. It troubles me more when Communist labor and capitalist greed get together.

Saw an interview with Mark Cuban, he's helping Trump bring manufacturing home. He said it will be advanced manufacturing when it returns. It will take 1/3 as many workers but be so efficient it will be able to kick Chinas butt. The jobs will be middleclass. He suggest a 19% taxes on advanced manufacturing goods. Use the money to strengthen Medicare and Social Security.

I'm okay with punishing China, but why do we need to strengthen Medicare and Social Security? Both are examples of generational theft by Ponzi scheme.

Do a little research. The money we paid in should be there for those blessed to live past 67. Think about how many people pay in and then go home early. The government has dipped into it for other things. I thought it was a pretty good idea to tax advanced manufactured goods. A robot will not need social security. If two guys and a robot can produce like 20 it could be the solution.

[cruzan_flame13]

I understand what you're saying. People need jobs, food around the world. It troubles me more when Communist labor and capitalist greed get together.

Saw an interview with Mark Cuban, he's helping Trump bring manufacturing home. He said it will be advanced manufacturing when it returns. It will take 1/3 as many workers but be so efficient it will be able to kick Chinas butt. The jobs will be middleclass. He suggest a 19% taxes on advanced manufacturing goods. Use the money to strengthen Medicare and Social Security.

I'm okay with punishing China, but why do we need to strengthen Medicare and Social Security? Both are examples of generational theft by Ponzi scheme.

Follow the money and you'll end back to the Rockefeller foundation. Rockefeller pretended like he cared as a philanthropist and give money to the people in order to get more bavk in his pockets from the medical/pharmaceutical field. This have been going on for generations and nothing has changed now. You're right, this scheme is nothing new. I found this interview interesting if anyone would like to take a look at it:

In the end, it's all about money and power.

[Purple Haize]

[cruzan_flame13]

Yes and it's just coincidence that the C.I.A has a department specifically for the entertainment industry. Yeah, all this is just cookoo time foil hat theories . We know how well the agency care for American's security.

[Purple Haize]

I mean we never heard of COVID 19 until Popeyes challenged Jesus’ favorite chicken sandwich. People had caught on the the Col and his wee beedy eyes. They switched it. Just look at the Weekly World News!

[rogers3]

Wow... This conversation... Coronavirus craziness on full display. And I thought the Living in Lynchburg Facebook page had some real loonies.
Yacht... You are exempt from this assessment!

[TH Spangler]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -wuhan-lab