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#599712
Some people like to bloviate without any idea of what they're talking about. Crappy pay and benefits exist in both the public and private sector.

The public sector numbers that he was putting out aren't even that impressive compared to what I've seen in the private sector.
#599714
TH Spangler wrote:I predict public sector employees vote heavily demacrat. Biden voters. :lol:

The unimpressive numbers were for high school, some college educated gs employees.
I'm talking about private sector high school education pay as well.

The issues aren't whether the well paying jobs exist. The big issue is where the jobs exist. There has been a huge transition and jobs don't exist in the same sectors of the private workforce that they did decades ago.

Some are able to adapt to the changing needs of the modern workforce, some aren't. It's one of the reasons I got into education. To help prep the next generation for the needs of the modern workforce.
#599731
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 28th, 2020, 1:32 pm So what you’re saying is government jobs pay an appropriate compensation package in order to retain quality employees whereas the private sector suppresses wages in the name of profit for the company and executives?
Jon I half way agree with you. We wouldn't have the problem if the government had practiced proper oversight. Legacy airline paychecks were wiped out by a bunch of government encouraged start ups without any real long term business plan. Discount carriers failed as soon as their C and D checks started coming due. But by then they had destroyed a healthy industry. Government had successfully got their cheap tickets. But also crashed a middle class career path, crashed Amtrak, Greyhound and Trailways, got us packed airplanes with 0 leg room and no customer service. And they keep asking for more tax money to float Amtrak to this day.

They crashed millions of middle class manufacturing jobs when they green lighted moving them to communist countries that use forced labor and had no environmental restrictions. We got cheap underwear, cheap plastic, cheap metal and questionable drugs, legal and illegal.

So here we are in panic mode. Last time they created programs like the TAA, PBGC and the HCTC to patch the mess. This time they're considering a "guaranteed wage law". Basically taxing the catastrophic mess and redistributing free money to everyone. Nothing but duck tape on the holes they punched.
#599740
TH Spangler wrote: April 29th, 2020, 6:53 am
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 28th, 2020, 1:32 pm So what you’re saying is government jobs pay an appropriate compensation package in order to retain quality employees whereas the private sector suppresses wages in the name of profit for the company and executives?
Jon I half way agree with you. We wouldn't have the problem if the government had practiced proper oversight. Legacy airline paychecks were wiped out by a bunch of government encouraged start ups without any real long term business plan. Discount carriers failed as soon as their C and D checks started coming due. But by then they had destroyed a healthy industry. Government had successfully got their cheap tickets. But also crashed a middle class career path, crashed Amtrak, Greyhound and Trailways, got us packed airplanes with 0 leg room and no customer service. And they keep asking for more tax money to float Amtrak to this day.

They crashed millions of middle class manufacturing jobs when they green lighted moving them to communist countries that use forced labor and had no environmental restrictions. We got cheap underwear, cheap plastic, cheap metal and questionable drugs, legal and illegal.

So here we are in panic mode. Last time they created programs like the TAA, PBGC and the HCTC to patch the mess. This time they're considering a "guaranteed wage law". Basically taxing the catastrophic mess and redistributing free money to everyone. Nothing but duck tape on the holes they punched.
Good post, TH
#599741
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 29th, 2020, 8:36 am Governmental overreach is a totally different conversation than what governmental jobs pay their employees. You’re mixing two different arguments. One has merits. The other doesn’t.
Public sector government bureaucrats are the ones that screwed the private sector as pointed out. Since the 2008 crash the public sector has not felt much pain like the rest of us. They took their raises. In fact I think Obama used the GS pay scale to stimulate the economy.

And I'm not sure it was goverment over reach, simply stupid logic. The ship is slowly changing course though, gives me hope.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#599743
TH Spangler wrote:
Jonathan Carone wrote: April 29th, 2020, 8:36 am Governmental overreach is a totally different conversation than what governmental jobs pay their employees. You’re mixing two different arguments. One has merits. The other doesn’t.
Public sector government bureaucrats are the ones that screwed the private sector as pointed out. Since the 2008 crash the public sector has not felt much pain like the rest of us. They took their raises. In fact I think Obama used the GS pay scale to stimulate the economy.

And I'm not sure it was goverment over reach, simply stupid logic. The ship is slowly changing course though, gives me hope.
Always glad to have Tucker Carlson as part of our board.

I get what you're saying, and I agree somewhat. It usually helps to use facts and data, though.
#599751
Tucker's my favorite, calls it like it is, doesn't care which party you come from.

Dont need a bunch of facts, just look around.

Praying Trump gets 4 more years. If Clinton had won and the TPP had passed we wouldn't have had a chance to turn it around. :lol:
#599771
TH Spangler wrote: April 29th, 2020, 1:35 pm Tucker's my favorite...
He needs a HAIRCUT. :wink:
#599776
Yacht Rock wrote: April 29th, 2020, 5:30 pm So, you're for larger government when it benefits your industry? Got it. LOL.
I'm for smarter goverment. Carter deregulated the industry. Reagan and those that followed him put it on steroids. It could have been effective, lowered fares and increased flights without damaging so many Americans if managed properly. Good oversight, is not bigger goverment. :lol:

If not for Trump, Clinton would have given our 5G to China by now. The administration we have now gives me hope.
Last edited by TH Spangler on April 29th, 2020, 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#599777
Cider Jim wrote: April 29th, 2020, 5:33 pm
TH Spangler wrote: April 29th, 2020, 1:35 pm Tucker's my favorite...
He needs a HAIRCUT. :wink:
So do I. But thanks to a communist Chinese virus all the barbershop in va are closed till june 10th. :lol:

Gordon Chang warned China is unleashed on Lou Dobbs tonight. Could do something serious and stupid. Catch it on replay it you can.
#599791
thepostman wrote: April 30th, 2020, 9:46 am Gotta watch out for that guy if he is coming for our message boards.

Be part of the solution, not the problem...
That’s like asking a fish to ride a bicycle
#599798
Guys this is not personal. I grew up in a civil service household, both parents. I have many close friends that are civil servants. This is just common sense for the situation we find ourselves in.

Here’s a comparison. In the 1990’s when the government decided they wanted to use their oversight powers to do away with legacy airline pay and pension benefits, to achieve low cost airfare they pushed and encourage airlines to use bankruptcy to achieve it. And they did. What it resulted in was 20% plus pay cuts, and no cost of living raises for the next 20 years. But more importantly the loss of our defined pension plan, no matter how long you had been working there. They directed us to the “government” PBGC insurance program, were only a percentage of it would be covered. And it’s not really guaranteed, the PBGC has funding issues like the rest of our government. We were told we would have to join a 401K plan going forward and pick up all the risk that go with it. And in our case contribute 60% of the money going into it from our now reduced pay check. We also lost any pre Medicare retirement healthcare benefits. What that meant was if we retired at age 55 or 59 ½ we had to go to the ACA for healthcare and see if we qualify for a “government” subsidy. There you add all your retirement income sources together including social security, any annuities (PBGC), rental income, part time work income and see where you stand. With any luck you get a subsidy. If not you pay $1200 per month for an individual health plan until you hit Medicare.

The other day some blue states started sniffing around the “Care Fund” to get us tax payers to fully fund their over promised, way underfunded public sector pensions. When Senator McConnell said no, use bankruptcy, you would have thought he shot someone mother.

Public sector pay and especially pensions need to be brought in line with the private sector they serve. In my opinion they should do something similar to what they did with us. End public sector defined pensions, use the same formula they did with us to insure some of it. Put them into a 401K. Extend their full retirement age to 65. And if they want to early out use ACA healthcare until they go on Medicare, like the rest of us.

Okay have at me. I know how you feel, I've been there :lol:
#599799
A lot of government sectors have had to get rid of their legacy pension plans. There are still a lot remaining but the government is a slow machine and doesn't turn on a dime like a lot of businesses do. That being said, all things aren't equal. Just like not all private businesses are equal, all government agencies aren't equal.

Not everyone in the private workforce is underpaid.

Not everyone in government work is overpaid.
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#599804
Wasn't just an airline thing, we acually had a job left. As they greenlighted offshoring millions manufacturing jobs, auto, furniture, pharmaceutical etc. The same thing happened to those 10-20 year, private sector employee's pensions and healthcare. Made them more reliant on a broke government just like you. Unfortunately we'll probably
get hit again when you do. :lol:
#599805
Do you see any of the benefit of overseas manufacturing?

What kind of device are you using to post on this message board? How were you able to afford it?

You want America to go back to being a manufacturing center but are you prepared for embracing a lifestyle of austerity to make that happen?
#599807
Yacht Rock wrote: April 30th, 2020, 6:20 pm Do you see any of the benefit of overseas manufacturing?

What kind of device are you using to post on this message board? How were you able to afford it?

You want America to go back to being a manufacturing center but are you prepared for embracing a lifestyle of austerity to make that happen?
I recently learned apple used a lot of forced Chinese labor, especially before they were called out on it. Same with Niki. I posted in another thread about it. I said we should all be ashamed. And yes I am.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-f ... ory-2020-3

Persecution, slavery and mass rape? I'm not okay with it at any price. I'll do without my phone.
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#599808
I want jobs to come back to America but your fixation on public sector jobs seems misdirected but very personal to you. I'm in the military so my experience is a bit different but I work hand and had with plenty of government employees and you're allowing your personal biases to really insult a lot of good people. People who are not on vacation, like you so eloquently said earlier in this thread c

But the ripple effect of bringing these jobs back to America isn't so simple. Costs will go up unless we put tarrifs on everything coming from overseas but then costs will go up because anytime cost goes up for a manufacturer, that increase is passed onto the consumer.

I am not nearly smart enough to come up with some elaborate plan to brings jobs back but it is one of the few things I have agreed with the current administration on. They seem to be on the right track.

Now I'm not sure why continuing to cut benefits from federal employees is the answer in any of this. Those benefits should attract some very talented people. It doesn't always work that because of all the other beaurcratic bullcrap. The problem with the government isn't the benefits package. It is the lack of accountability.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#599809
TH Spangler, If we wanted to read Tucker Carlson's thoughts, we'd just watch Tucker Carlson.
Last edited by jbock13 on April 30th, 2020, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#599810
There's a difference between using labor directly and labor further down the supply chain.

I can tell you (as someone who's a lot closer to this than you), typically vendors that displayed unethical behavior like that would find their contracts not getting renewed. Entire facilities have been shut down before due to unethical labor practices.

Did you know that Apple requires direct suppliers to follow the same labor regulations that are followed for US employees, which is based on US labor law?

I'm against terrible working conditions in manufacturing and forced labor. It's a problem that needs to be fixed.
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By jbock13
Registration Days Posts
#599811
thepostman wrote: April 30th, 2020, 7:26 pm

Now I'm not sure why continuing to cut benefits from federal employees is the answer in any of this.
Some guy on TV said it once. That makes it very important.
ATrain liked this
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