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Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 28th, 2020, 8:07 pm
by thepostman
Haha. That was a broader statement but I was starting to think you were believing that too. So my bad!

Trumpism is now the repiblican party. I agreed with that 3rd party assessment 4 years ago but not anymore. Repiblicans won't stand up to him and his fiscally irresponsible ways because they are afraid of his twitter thumbs.

I think a true 3rd party candidate would force a complete halt to most of the stupid ideas that come out of both sides and would get nothing done. My favorite kind of federal government. If they can't get anything done, they can't ruin anything. Haha

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 28th, 2020, 8:12 pm
by ballcoach15
Jeb Bush could have won nomination if he had done anything. He ran basically on his last name
Had no platform, no strategy, didn't attack. Trump came out aggressive and attacked everyone.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 28th, 2020, 9:00 pm
by Jonathan Carone
This show definitely leans left, but I thought it was a really interesting take on why our politics feels so hopeless.


Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 28th, 2020, 10:53 pm
by Purple Haize
I gave up on that dude because I got tired of waiting for him to get to a point. His Plurality v Majority argument was incredibly flawed. For starters since there’s only 1 person who can win, then, yeah, it’s winner take all. If you throw more Parties in to the mix you still go with a Plurality. Then the whole Representative Democract thing.
Not sure he ever provided a solution, but I’m pretty happy with the system.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 8:42 am
by Jonathan Carone
The solution he got to was ranked choice voting. Maine has instituted it state wide for elections. Other cities (San Francisco, New York, Minneapolis, among some others) have put it in for local elections. It's been used across the country at different times over the last 100 years.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 8:56 am
by Purple Haize
Jonathan Carone wrote: June 29th, 2020, 8:42 am The solution he got to was ranked choice voting. Maine has instituted it state wide for elections. Other cities (San Francisco, New York, Minneapolis, among some others) have put it in for local elections. It's been used across the country at different times over the last 100 years.
I don’t see how that’s any better. So everyone’s 3rd choice gets elected? It’s not a bad idea, especially on a local or even State Level. But Nationally? I don’t know. I’m fine with the Electoral College. I wouldn’t mind State Legislatures picking Senators instead of a direct vote and I’m a fan of voting for a Representative instead of having a committee select one.
Of course, let’s look at the content conditions of SF, NYC and Minneapolis.....not exactly poster children for the concept :D

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 9:18 am
by Jonathan Carone
Everyone's third choice is an oversimplification that isn't correct. And it also wouldn't overtake the Electoral College. The benefit of it would be that it would ensure whoever gets elected actually received the majority of the votes. I don't think it would significantly impact the presidential election in the short term, but it would allow for a legitimate third party to grow over the years to where 16-20 years from now we might actually be able to have real choices instead of two old white guys in their 70s.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 9:26 am
by Purple Haize
Jonathan Carone wrote: June 29th, 2020, 9:18 am Everyone's third choice is an oversimplification that isn't correct. And it also wouldn't overtake the Electoral College. The benefit of it would be that it would ensure whoever gets elected actually received the majority of the votes. I don't think it would significantly impact the presidential election in the short term, but it would allow for a legitimate third party to grow over the years to where 16-20 years from now we might actually be able to have real choices instead of two old white guys in their 70s.
Obama
W
Clinton

Those were the last 3 presidents. They were not in their 70’s.
And I’m unclear how you would tabulate the ranked voting points. If my #3 pick ends up winning, wouldn’t that still mean they won a plurality instead of a majority? It’s a system I’m familiar with as THATs how we vote for District and Region player of the years. Imagine the fun “discussions” when someone with few or no #1 votes actually wins based on how you ranked everyone.
If you want a 3rd Party to succeed it needs to start at the local and state level first. You need a Proof of Concept to show voters before you can think you can sit in the big chair.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 9:27 am
by Class of 20Something
What are yalls thoughts on electoral vote through congressional districts?

Below is an old article. But I can't help but think this system would be hyper representative of localities.

I would only be okay with this system if states gave their senators back to the legislature for election though.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/un ... till-lost/

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 10:07 am
by Purple Haize
Class of 20Something wrote: June 29th, 2020, 9:27 am What are yalls thoughts on electoral vote through congressional districts?

Below is an old article. But I can't help but think this system would be hyper representative of localities.

I would only be okay with this system if states gave their senators back to the legislature for election though.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/un ... till-lost/
I’ve been intrigued by that idea as well. It would make people in CA NY TX or AL feel like their votes count. I can see it increasing voter participation. It will definitely change the face of campaigns. You’d still have all the Popular Vote and Anti Electoral College folks screaming a District in Manhattan is being given equal weight as a District in SW VA. It’s a stupid argument but one they’d still make
And of course Legislators selecting Senators
The more local you can make elections the better IMO

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: June 29th, 2020, 10:13 am
by Jonathan Carone
I'm all for figuring out ways we can get more people to vote and make people feel like their votes actually count while still keeping the electoral college. If you can accomplish those three things, I'll listen to whatever you've got to say.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 2nd, 2020, 10:02 pm
by lynchburgwildcats
Jonathan Carone wrote: June 29th, 2020, 8:42 am The solution he got to was ranked choice voting. Maine has instituted it state wide for elections. Other cities (San Francisco, New York, Minneapolis, among some others) have put it in for local elections. It's been used across the country at different times over the last 100 years.
I would like to see ranked choice voting. I assume that would split the electoral college vote for each state as well? So like if Biden gets 50% and Trump gets 50% they split the states electoral votes in half?

It could be a great motivator to get people to vote in states that would be voting for a person who has no chance at winning. It disenfranchises those voters. Like a person voting for Trump in California is essentially a meaningless vote in the grand scheme of things, meanwhile a person voting for Biden in Kentucky is the same. Yeah their vote counts towards the popular vote, but it doesn’t really matter if their candidate of choice has no chance in their state.

It could potentially increase voter turnout and force candidates to have to care about every state in some capacity instead of basically ignoring states they have locked up that always vote one way or the other.

Let’s be honest, when’s the last time a Liberal candidate ever truly cared about campaigning or appealing to a voter in Mississippi or Alabama and when’s the last time a Conservative candidate ever truly cared about campaigning or appealing to a voter in California or New York?

They may care about them in other ways, but as far as caring about them as a voter, they don’t care, and that’s a shame.

I hate the modern Republican/Conservative agenda, but it’s a travesty of an election system when millions of voters every four years are faced with the prospect that their vote isn’t going to matter because their state leans so far to the left or right. Everyone should be able to feel like voting for the person who is going to easily lose their state is still going to have an effect on the outcome instead of it just being another number. Instead I’m sure many of those millions of voters come away feeling like their vote didn’t matter, and it’s only inevitable some of those people just say it’s not worth the trouble going to vote.

I’m sure there are some unintended consequences that will come about but on the surface it’s a good idea.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 2nd, 2020, 10:31 pm
by Ill flame
lynchburgwildcats wrote: July 2nd, 2020, 10:02 pm
Jonathan Carone wrote: June 29th, 2020, 8:42 am The solution he got to was ranked choice voting. Maine has instituted it state wide for elections. Other cities (San Francisco, New York, Minneapolis, among some others) have put it in for local elections. It's been used across the country at different times over the last 100 years.
I would like to see ranked choice voting. I assume that would split the electoral college vote for each state as well? So like if Biden gets 50% and Trump gets 50% they split the states electoral votes in half?

It could be a great motivator to get people to vote in states that would be voting for a person who has no chance at winning. It disenfranchises those voters. Like a person voting for Trump in California is essentially a meaningless vote in the grand scheme of things, meanwhile a person voting for Biden in Kentucky is the same. Yeah their vote counts towards the popular vote, but it doesn’t really matter if their candidate of choice has no chance in their state.

It could potentially increase voter turnout and force candidates to have to care about every state in some capacity instead of basically ignoring states they have locked up that always vote one way or the other.

Let’s be honest, when’s the last time a Liberal candidate ever truly cared about campaigning or appealing to a voter in Mississippi or Alabama and when’s the last time a Conservative candidate ever truly cared about campaigning or appealing to a voter in California or New York?

They may care about them in other ways, but as far as caring about them as a voter, they don’t care, and that’s a shame.

I hate the modern Republican/Conservative agenda, but it’s a travesty of an election system when millions of voters every four years are faced with the prospect that their vote isn’t going to matter because their state leans so far to the left or right. Everyone should be able to feel like voting for the person who is going to easily lose their state is still going to have an effect on the outcome instead of it just being another number. Instead I’m sure many of those millions of voters come away feeling like their vote didn’t matter, and it’s only inevitable some of those people just say it’s not worth the trouble going to vote.

I’m sure there are some unintended consequences that will come about but on the surface it’s a good idea.
I don't think you would need to make any changes to the electoral college to successfully use the ranked choice system. It probably wouldn't do much for Trump voters in California or Biden voters in Oklahoma but it would open a path for a green party candidate in California or some kind of conservative party candidate in deep red states.

At a minimum it would force the Dems and Republicans to actually compete in states that would normally be safe. Especially in non presidential positions.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 4th, 2020, 9:14 pm
by thepostman
2020 just keeps getting weirder


Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 7:18 am
by olldflame
thepostman wrote: July 4th, 2020, 9:14 pm 2020 just keeps getting weirder

I'd vote for him over Biden in a heartbeat.

On a side note, Nancy Pelosi is probably now in an ICU somewhere suffering convulsions.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 7:54 am
by olldflame
Interesting early poll results fron Kanye's twitter followers.



For the record, this is already a much larger sample than many national polls, and shows Kanye taking away basically half of Biden's support with that demographic.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:13 am
by thepostman
Twitter has never been a good measuring stick of how people feel about political issues but i do think you may be onto something here. Kanye has been outspoken about his support for Trump, why would that change so quickly? Could he have had a change of heart with all of the racial tension right now? Possibly. Or is he running with hopes to taking younger votes away from Biden and helping Trump? Also possible.

Or lastly, and most likely, this is a man who battles with being bi-polar and doesn't always make the most logical decisions. Trying to make sense of anything Kanye does will just leave your head spinning.

With that said, I'd vote for Trump or Biden over Kanye. The man is borderline insane but he also has filed zero paperwork to make this official so we will wait and see if he does.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:41 am
by olldflame
thepostman wrote: July 5th, 2020, 8:13 am Twitter has never been a good measuring stick of how people feel about political issues but i do think you may be onto something here. Kanye has been outspoken about his support for Trump, why would that change so quickly? Could he have had a change of heart with all of the racial tension right now? Possibly. Or is he running with hopes to taking younger votes away from Biden and helping Trump? Also possible.

Or lastly, and most likely, this is a man who battles with being bi-polar and doesn't always make the most logical decisions. Trying to make sense of anything Kanye does will just leave your head spinning.

With that said, I'd vote for Trump or Biden over Kanye. The man is borderline insane but he also has filed zero paperwork to make this official so we will wait and see if he does.
I am extremely familiar with the effects of bi-polar disorder (30 years in community mental health) and it's certainly possible Kanye just went off his meds. We'll see how serious this is pretty soon, because if he is actually going to run, he needs to move quickly to say the least. If we don't see an announcement of a legit campaign manager and other key steps to start the process in the next few days, I think we can write this off.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 9:05 am
by thepostman
He doesn't take medication because it hurts his creative process, which is pretty well known at this point.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/578647/

https://people.com/music/kim-kardashian ... /?amp=true

But yeah, it is pretty late in the game to get on ballots. In fact I think there are a handful of states where it is too late for independent candidates to get on ballots.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 9:34 am
by olldflame
thepostman wrote: July 5th, 2020, 9:05 am He doesn't take medication because it hurts his creative process, which is pretty well known at this point.

https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/578647/

https://people.com/music/kim-kardashian ... /?amp=true

But yeah, it is pretty late in the game to get on ballots. In fact I think there are a handful of states where it is too late for independent candidates to get on ballots.
If he is not taking meds, it's just a simple reality that he is going to go through phases of manic and depressed mood. Something like this could indicate a manic phase. he could also be fairly stable right now, and just thinks it's something he should do.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:07 pm
by thepostman
Young Gordon Bombay has thrown his name in the hat



I know nothing about him but for those not familiar with the Mighty Ducks franchise, first shame on you, secondly here is Brock Pierce as a young Gordon Bombay in The Mighty Ducks.



Ducks. Fly. Together.

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:44 pm
by olldflame
thepostman wrote: July 5th, 2020, 8:07 pm Young Gordon Bombay has thrown his name in the hat



I know nothing about him but for those not familiar with the Mighty Ducks franchise, first shame on you, secondly here is Brock Pierce as a young Gordon Bombay in The Mighty Ducks.



Ducks. Fly. Together.
So, I guess when he threw his hat into the ring, he wanted everyone to know whose hat it was?

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:50 pm
by Purple Haize
I went with Dr Bombay from Bewitched

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 8:56 pm
by thepostman
That's because you're so old man. :lol:

Re: 2020 Presidential Election

Posted: July 5th, 2020, 9:00 pm
by thepostman
@olldflame I just got your joke. Haha. I'm a little slow.