Re: The COVID-19 Megathread
Posted: October 19th, 2021, 5:36 pm
https://forums.aseaofred.com/forums/
https://forums.aseaofred.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27128
cruzan_flame13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:31 pm“West of the Rockies youre on…”jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?We all have a decision to what to be done to the temple or our body. Some will know, while many will not or ignore the signs that was placed before them. Stay comfortable/distracted if you'd like. Everyone has the choice to make. Ecclesiastes 1:18
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?This is where I land. Get it, don’t get it; it’s up to you. But not a single person who has told me they oppose it on the basis of their religion can articulate an argument on that basis. Not even a bad one. At this point, I’d settle for anything resembling coherence!
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
JK37 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 9:28 pmSeriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?This is where I land. Get it, don’t get it; it’s up to you. But not a single person who has told me they oppose it on the basis of their religion can’t articulate an argument on that basis. Not even a bad one. At this point, I’d settle for anything resembling coherence!
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
It’s a bad look for the faith when the loudest among us resemble the most ignorant.
cruzan_flame13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:31 pmaka non-answerjbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?We all have a decision to what to be done to the temple or our body. Some will know, while many will not or ignore the signs that was placed before them. Stay comfortable/distracted if you'd like. Everyone has the choice to make. Ecclesiastes 1:18
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
tyndal23 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 10:32 pmLet’s assume I did. Care to elaborate?JK37 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 9:28 pmSeriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?This is where I land. Get it, don’t get it; it’s up to you. But not a single person who has told me they oppose it on the basis of their religion can’t articulate an argument on that basis. Not even a bad one. At this point, I’d settle for anything resembling coherence!
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
It’s a bad look for the faith when the loudest among us resemble the most ignorant.
tyndal23 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 10:32 pmI don't follow these threads very often because in general they are futile...very few will change their opinion. So I did not see the video you mention but I'm aware of the concern that some have because a line of fetal cells was used on the creation of the vaccines. I get it. If that is your point and you are consistent with every other vaccine and product where the HEK293 fetal cell line are involved you have my respect. That would also preclude you or your children from many standard vaccines such as:JK37 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 9:28 pmSeriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?This is where I land. Get it, don’t get it; it’s up to you. But not a single person who has told me they oppose it on the basis of their religion can’t articulate an argument on that basis. Not even a bad one. At this point, I’d settle for anything resembling coherence!
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
It’s a bad look for the faith when the loudest among us resemble the most ignorant.
Purple Haize wrote:cruzan_flame13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:31 pm“West of the Rockies youre on…”jbock13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:23 pm Where exactly does it say in the Bible that Christians should avoid vaccinations?We all have a decision to what to be done to the temple or our body. Some will know, while many will not or ignore the signs that was placed before them. Stay comfortable/distracted if you'd like. Everyone has the choice to make. Ecclesiastes 1:18
If your point is that it should be up to personal choice, then I agree.
Just John wrote: ↑October 20th, 2021, 12:01 amLet me preface this by saying that I am not necessarily accusing you of inventing the argument. However, the Tylenol argument is one of the most absurd leftist talking points that I have ever heard. Paracetamol (acetaminophen) dates as far back as 1852. The HEK.293 line was derived from an abortion in 1973.tyndal23 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 10:32 pmI don't follow these threads very often because in general they are futile...very few will change their opinion. So I did not see the video you mention but I'm aware of the concern that some have because a line of fetal cells was used on the creation of the vaccines. I get it. If that is your point and you are consistent with every other vaccine and product where the HEK293 fetal cell line are involved you have my respect. That would also preclude you or your children from many standard vaccines such as:JK37 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 9:28 pmSeriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?
This is where I land. Get it, don’t get it; it’s up to you. But not a single person who has told me they oppose it on the basis of their religion can’t articulate an argument on that basis. Not even a bad one. At this point, I’d settle for anything resembling coherence!
It’s a bad look for the faith when the loudest among us resemble the most ignorant.
rubella
measles
rabies
shingles
hepatitis
They were used also in a number of products such as Tylenol and Advil and numerous cosmetics. It's used in research for Parkinson's Disease. There are many, many others. There is a long list on a pro-life Catholic site that that include Azithromycin / Zithromax, Hydroxychloroquine, Remdesivir and Ivermectin as all being tested on HEK293. If true it should pose an ethical dilemma for those against the Covid vaccines but for these therapeutics. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughca ... -medicine/
This from a practicing Catholic, James Lawler, an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
“I understand why people have concerns, The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that’s been done on fetal cell lines. These are cell lines that were originally derived from fetal tissue from aborted fetuses many of back in the 70s and 80s and they’ve been immortalized and retained and passaged again and again."
https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... 9d3a98fa84
RubberMallet wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 10:02 amI got that a lot growing upPurple Haize wrote:cruzan_flame13 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 4:31 pm“West of the Rockies youre on…”
We all have a decision to what to be done to the temple or our body. Some will know, while many will not or ignore the signs that was placed before them. Stay comfortable/distracted if you'd like. Everyone has the choice to make. Ecclesiastes 1:18
ValkRider wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 2:55 pmJust as the polio vaccine was created prior these cell lines being available the polio vaccine has nonetheless been tested against them as have other products. I'm not sure an infectious disease expert from a research hospital who is also a practicing Catholic qualifies as a "leftist". He might but it should be proven before using that trope.Just John wrote: ↑October 20th, 2021, 12:01 amLet me preface this by saying that I am not necessarily accusing you of inventing the argument. However, the Tylenol argument is one of the most absurd leftist talking points that I have ever heard. Paracetamol (acetaminophen) dates as far back as 1852. The HEK.293 line was derived from an abortion in 1973.tyndal23 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 10:32 pmI don't follow these threads very often because in general they are futile...very few will change their opinion. So I did not see the video you mention but I'm aware of the concern that some have because a line of fetal cells was used on the creation of the vaccines. I get it. If that is your point and you are consistent with every other vaccine and product where the HEK293 fetal cell line are involved you have my respect. That would also preclude you or your children from many standard vaccines such as:
Seriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?
rubella
measles
rabies
shingles
hepatitis
They were used also in a number of products such as Tylenol and Advil and numerous cosmetics. It's used in research for Parkinson's Disease. There are many, many others. There is a long list on a pro-life Catholic site that that include Azithromycin / Zithromax, Hydroxychloroquine, Remdesivir and Ivermectin as all being tested on HEK293. If true it should pose an ethical dilemma for those against the Covid vaccines but for these therapeutics. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughca ... -medicine/
This from a practicing Catholic, James Lawler, an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
“I understand why people have concerns, The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that’s been done on fetal cell lines. These are cell lines that were originally derived from fetal tissue from aborted fetuses many of back in the 70s and 80s and they’ve been immortalized and retained and passaged again and again."
https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... 9d3a98fa84
There is a marked difference between taking a substance like Tylenol, which was not tainted in its testing and development stage in any way, from a substance that had its very genesis in its track to market tested on fetal cells.
The vast majority of the most common substances that are used by most people, long predate those cell lines.
One is tainted as it is tested as it is developed on the cell line, and thus necessarily becomes intertwined with and derived from the cell line.
Now one might not like this distinction, but it is a distinction that many Christians share in holding. The fact that one disagrees with the distinction doesn't make it any less sincere or religious. They just happen to disagree with it.
The distinction makes sense when you really think about it though. On one hand, you have a pre-existing substance. It matters not that some demonic psychopath takes it and then tests it on a cell line.
Besides, beyond the fetal cell line argument, many Christians have an inherent problem with mRNA vaccines, as they believe that only God has the right to artificially interfere with natural cellular biology. Some Christians would accept a traditional inactivated whole cell virus, but wouldn't accept the mRNA virus.
There is also the Kuyperian sphere of sovereignty argument (which holds the most weight with me.)
Regardless of which objection might be put forward, the fact that you disagree with these objections doesn't make them any less "Christian" or any less valid. Just as an Old Order Amish believer might disagree with you about driving a car.
ValkRider wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 2:55 pmTrue, Tylenol and many other drugs have creation dates that predate HEK.293, but they are regularly tested using HEK.293. The versions of these drugs we have today are made possible because of their testing on HEK.293Just John wrote: ↑October 20th, 2021, 12:01 amLet me preface this by saying that I am not necessarily accusing you of inventing the argument. However, the Tylenol argument is one of the most absurd leftist talking points that I have ever heard. Paracetamol (acetaminophen) dates as far back as 1852. The HEK.293 line was derived from an abortion in 1973.tyndal23 wrote: ↑October 19th, 2021, 10:32 pmI don't follow these threads very often because in general they are futile...very few will change their opinion. So I did not see the video you mention but I'm aware of the concern that some have because a line of fetal cells was used on the creation of the vaccines. I get it. If that is your point and you are consistent with every other vaccine and product where the HEK293 fetal cell line are involved you have my respect. That would also preclude you or your children from many standard vaccines such as:
Seriously ? Did you miss the fetal cell line video ?
rubella
measles
rabies
shingles
hepatitis
They were used also in a number of products such as Tylenol and Advil and numerous cosmetics. It's used in research for Parkinson's Disease. There are many, many others. There is a long list on a pro-life Catholic site that that include Azithromycin / Zithromax, Hydroxychloroquine, Remdesivir and Ivermectin as all being tested on HEK293. If true it should pose an ethical dilemma for those against the Covid vaccines but for these therapeutics. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughca ... -medicine/
This from a practicing Catholic, James Lawler, an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
“I understand why people have concerns, The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that’s been done on fetal cell lines. These are cell lines that were originally derived from fetal tissue from aborted fetuses many of back in the 70s and 80s and they’ve been immortalized and retained and passaged again and again."
https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... 9d3a98fa84
There is a marked difference between taking a substance like Tylenol, which was not tainted in its testing and development stage in any way, from a substance that had its very genesis in its track to market tested on fetal cells.
The vast majority of the most common substances that are used by most people, long predate those cell lines.
One is tainted as it is tested as it is developed on the cell line, and thus necessarily becomes intertwined with and derived from the cell line.
Now one might not like this distinction, but it is a distinction that many Christians share in holding. The fact that one disagrees with the distinction doesn't make it any less sincere or religious. They just happen to disagree with it.
The distinction makes sense when you really think about it though. On one hand, you have a pre-existing substance. It matters not that some demonic psychopath takes it and then tests it on a cell line.
Besides, beyond the fetal cell line argument, many Christians have an inherent problem with mRNA vaccines, as they believe that only God has the right to artificially interfere with natural cellular biology. Some Christians would accept a traditional inactivated whole cell virus, but wouldn't accept the mRNA virus.
There is also the Kuyperian sphere of sovereignty argument (which holds the most weight with me.)
Regardless of which objection might be put forward, the fact that you disagree with these objections doesn't make them any less "Christian" or any less valid. Just as an Old Order Amish believer might disagree with you about driving a car.
Just John wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 10:31 pmYou aren’t following what the distinction is for many Christians. It doesn’t matter IF something was tested on the line, it matters WHEN. If a product has its genesis in the line, then it can’t be knowingly used. If a product had its genesis (testing in the developmental stage) using the line, then it is tainted.ValkRider wrote: ↑October 28th, 2021, 2:55 pmJust as the polio vaccine was created prior these cell lines being available the polio vaccine has nonetheless been tested against them as have other products. I'm not sure an infectious disease expert from a research hospital who is also a practicing Catholic qualifies as a "leftist". He might but it should be proven before using that trope.Just John wrote: ↑October 20th, 2021, 12:01 am I don't follow these threads very often because in general they are futile...very few will change their opinion. So I did not see the video you mention but I'm aware of the concern that some have because a line of fetal cells was used on the creation of the vaccines. I get it. If that is your point and you are consistent with every other vaccine and product where the HEK293 fetal cell line are involved you have my respect. That would also preclude you or your children from many standard vaccines such as:Let me preface this by saying that I am not necessarily accusing you of inventing the argument. However, the Tylenol argument is one of the most absurd leftist talking points that I have ever heard. Paracetamol (acetaminophen) dates as far back as 1852. The HEK.293 line was derived from an abortion in 1973.
rubella
measles
rabies
shingles
hepatitis
They were used also in a number of products such as Tylenol and Advil and numerous cosmetics. It's used in research for Parkinson's Disease. There are many, many others. There is a long list on a pro-life Catholic site that that include Azithromycin / Zithromax, Hydroxychloroquine, Remdesivir and Ivermectin as all being tested on HEK293. If true it should pose an ethical dilemma for those against the Covid vaccines but for these therapeutics. https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughca ... -medicine/
This from a practicing Catholic, James Lawler, an infectious disease expert at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
“I understand why people have concerns, The bottom line is almost all the medical products we use have in some way been touched by research that’s been done on fetal cell lines. These are cell lines that were originally derived from fetal tissue from aborted fetuses many of back in the 70s and 80s and they’ve been immortalized and retained and passaged again and again."
https://www.9news.com/article/news/loca ... 9d3a98fa84
There is a marked difference between taking a substance like Tylenol, which was not tainted in its testing and development stage in any way, from a substance that had its very genesis in its track to market tested on fetal cells.
The vast majority of the most common substances that are used by most people, long predate those cell lines.
One is tainted as it is tested as it is developed on the cell line, and thus necessarily becomes intertwined with and derived from the cell line.
Now one might not like this distinction, but it is a distinction that many Christians share in holding. The fact that one disagrees with the distinction doesn't make it any less sincere or religious. They just happen to disagree with it.
The distinction makes sense when you really think about it though. On one hand, you have a pre-existing substance. It matters not that some demonic psychopath takes it and then tests it on a cell line.
Besides, beyond the fetal cell line argument, many Christians have an inherent problem with mRNA vaccines, as they believe that only God has the right to artificially interfere with natural cellular biology. Some Christians would accept a traditional inactivated whole cell virus, but wouldn't accept the mRNA virus.
There is also the Kuyperian sphere of sovereignty argument (which holds the most weight with me.)
Regardless of which objection might be put forward, the fact that you disagree with these objections doesn't make them any less "Christian" or any less valid. Just as an Old Order Amish believer might disagree with you about driving a car.
Tylenol aside, you ignored all of the other vaccines and medicines I listed. There are also a number of cosmetics and foods that have been tested on HEK 239 cells. Cancer therapies also have. Should one avoid cancer treatment that may have been developed involving HEK 239?
This may be a good example of Joseph telling his brothers that wat they meant for evil "God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive, as they are today". Gen 50:20
Also, the “mRNA problem” is not a problem. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how mRNA technology works. It doesn’t alter your cellular biology at all. It just uses it to create spike proteins. It does not even interact with the DNA of the cell.I have to jump back in on this point. No one said anything about the “altering your DNA” trope. I’m well aware how mRNA works.