[Purple Haize]

if you've seen people openly saying who cares about old people i need to make money in the stock market, then you are in the wrong groups.

what i see people saying on my feeds is "i need to work to pay for things otherwise my family and I will be in ruin. people are dying people are going to die but people are going to die in otherways if we keep things shut down. Now that can be interpreted into "screw people dying i want money!!!!" and those who latch onto that narrative are able and as we can clearly see....are.

No one's mentioning the stock market. My use of economy is totally at the local level. They're saying "we need to open businesses back up and if people get sick, we'll have to deal with that but I need to work."

i guess i'm not seeing how that devalues life at all. if people can't work how will they pay for food, medication, things required for them to live? while acknowledging people will still get sick (not necessarily die?)

Also, the economy is closed and people are still getting sick. Further, what is the difference between the previous statement and those who want to keep things closed while ignoring the increased suicide rate or deaths caused and to be caused by lack of screening due to the shut down? Are they saying it’s ok to sacrifice them?

[Jonathan Carone]

Guys - I'm not disagreeing with your logic or thought process. I'm not trying to tell you that the way you think is wrong. You all are not the ones that would need to be convinced pro life is the way to go. You've already been convinced. I've already been convinced. What I'm trying to show you is how people with a different view are interpreting the things conservatives are saying about this process.

[Jonathan Carone]

No one's mentioning the stock market. My use of economy is totally at the local level. They're saying "we need to open businesses back up and if people get sick, we'll have to deal with that but I need to work."

That’s an entirely different argument than you’ve presented. Where is the “Sacrifice Old People”?

It's an implication people are reading into the arguments. Since the elderly are more likely to get sick, when you say "if people get sick, we'll have to deal with it" the "people" you're most likely talking about are the elderly.

Again - this is not the way I read it, but I've had questions personally from my sister (non-Christian Bernie supporter) and have seen from others in more blue areas who have read statements like that in their local context and made the connect between the people having to deal with it are the elderly and the at-risk.

The flippancy of "if people get sick they'll have to deal with it" comes across in their minds as a contradiction to "every life is worth protecting" of the pro-life movement.

[Purple Haize]

Bernie supporter? She’s a hopeless cause
I hear those arguments from my friends and relatives. Contrary to popular myth I don’t live in a Conservative bubble. I actually think out my position before taking it. To be honest the increased suicide and OD’s was something I never thought of until chatting with a good friend of mine. He was coming back from the hospital for his second suicide attempt of that week. He then shared some of his struggles in the congregation from closed businesses, lost jobs, marital strife etc. His wife even got furloughed and he was concerned for their financial future. It was very eye opening. (An interesting side note was this was all after I sent him a Michael Sweet Cameo for encouragement because he seemed down. I recommend it!). Ever since then I’ve taken those people into consideration during my thought process as well.

[RubberMallet]

you said people seemed flippant. that doesn't seem flippant. i guess my point is everything can be construed to fit a hypocritical narrative. UBI, Welfare, single payer,etc. there are many valid arguments as to why a conservative person would be not for any of those. yet none of that matters. their arguments in any fashion regardless of how rational are a double standard given their position on abortion.

and obviously the inverse is true. if you care so much about old people why do you care so little about the unborn? if we are electric sacks of water meandering around a floating rock in the vastness of space, why do we put so much value on the mass that is more a drain on resources than a contributor and so little on the future fuel required for the preservation of our species?

[Jonathan Carone]

The mental health and abuse (drug, sexual, and child) aspect were my biggest argument against a longterm shutdown. We had to shut down for a while, but long term it would've done more damage.

[RubberMallet]

IL DCFS has taken more kids into care the past 2 months than ever before in a 2 mo span.

[makarov97]

...

[rhezick]

On the flip side, you've got the Berkeley study that says if 80% of the population wore masks, we'd all but eliminate the spread.

There's data on both sides at this point.

My motivations are if it could help keep someone from getting sick or it makes the people I'm around more comfortable, I'm willing to wear it. It's a low barrier to outwardly show people I don't know that I care about them. You can call that virtue signaling if you'd like, but I don't see it that way.

So I have this logical hurdle I'm facing that maybe I can get some help with. I mean this genuinely, without malice so I thought I'd put this out there. I read about so many people, be it on social media or news articles, make the following argument:

"The government is trampling on my individual rights by (telling me to wear a mask) despite the fact that it could save another life (the elderly, the sick, etc).

Isn't that the argument from those who are pro-choice?

"The government is trampling on my individual rights by (telling me I can't get an abortion) despite the fact that it could save another life (babies)."

I have no intent of turning this conversation away from the intended thread, and I respect whatever your position on is, but personally being pro-life I've honestly been struggling with doing anything other than supporting mask mandates and anything else that is "for the common good/health" because of the need to be argumentatively consistent. I genuinely struggle mentally to separate the two, and feel like in both situations, one uses "rights" to overlook the lives of others.

3. It is impossible to make the world 100% safe. There is an element of risk in driving a car, taking a walk, eating a hamburger, watching TV. In a free society, the government doesn't get to dictate things on an arbitrary basis, without consent, to make people "feel better." That's what this has devolved to.

Interesting statement. Couldn't that also apply to seatbelt laws, and smoking ordinances?

[makarov97]

...

[olldflame]

I thought of the Purples when I saw this. When ya goin?

[Purple Haize]

I know we saw that and thought about going this weekend actually. But with a new puppy we alas have limited options

[Jonathan Carone]

This is both interesting and confusing:

The World Health Organization says it still believes the spread of the coronavirus from people without symptoms is “rare,” despite warnings from numerous experts worldwide that such transmission is more frequent and likely explains why the pandemic has been so hard to contain.

Although health officials in countries including Britain, the U.S. and elsewhere have warned that COVID-19 is spreading from people without symptoms, WHO has maintained that this type of spread is not a driver of the pandemic and is probably accounts for about 6% of spread, at most. Numerous studies have suggested that the virus is spreading from people without symptoms, but many of those are either anecdotal reports or based on modeling.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory ... s-71126958

[ATrain]

Found out that I'll be working from home until June 1st now. So that is something.

So are y'all back in the office, or still working from home full time?

[thepostman]

Working from home still. We move to phase 1 on the 22nd which will means 25% in office. I won't be part of that 25% so I'll be working from home until at least the 2nd week of July.

[ATrain]

Working from home still. We move to phase 1 on the 22nd which will means 25% in office. I won't be part of that 25% so I'll be working from home until at least the 2nd week of July.

Gotcha. My agency hasn't said anything about anyone returning, but we're having an all hands teleconference on Thursday, so we'll see...

[thepostman]

Are you with the DoD? A lot of the restrictions just got lifted so I'd imagine a lot of agencies will start following suit. My agency is not going back to the old norm of operations and we will be working remote 1 or 2 days out of the week once we get back to the "new normal" as they say. Or at least that is what they say. They are funny about military guys working remote even though I can do 95% of my job remote. Those crazy Army guys screw it up for the rest of us.

[ATrain]

Nope, I'm with a different agency. We were 3 days a week at home, but then our commissioner decided to be a donkey and cut it to 2 days beginning in March, and then two weeks later the whole agency had gone to maximum telework.

[RubberMallet]

i'm still working from whereever. i went into the office for a day last week, and am now in CO visiting family.

I envision only going to the office a few times a week from now on quite frankly from here on out. This has really worked well for me and my family and we have seen no issues of productivity as a whole.

[LUDad]

I have worked in sales and marketing for most of my life and worked out of my home most of the time. I would be leery if I were working out of home in positions that could eventually be outsourced or go the contractor route. I'm kind of glad I'm retired now (though I did open a LLC to keep active).

[Purple Haize]

Best chart I’ve seen. It doesn’t show the spike that we keep hearing about. Other than FL and SC things don’t seem that bad

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/ind ... s/virginia

[thepostman]

Yeah. I check that site daily and it keeps things in perspective. Florida has handled the whole thing terribly but other then them, the positivity rate increase hasn't been awful bit several states have seen an uptick that their officials should keep an eye one at least.

The good news is the mortality rate continues to go down.

If people could have a rational conversation about this without politics getting in the way we would be so much better off. But we have seen that is impossible. Even on this board.

[thepostman]

I'm also working from home indefinitely. Which I won't argue with. I do not miss the drive or train trip into DC everyday. I have a pretty sweet setup for my home office so I'll go with this for as long as they will let me.

[CCWMichael]

Best chart I’ve seen. It doesn’t show the spike that we keep hearing about. Other than FL and SC things don’t seem that bad

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/ind ... s/virginia

Nice link. Thank you.

[Purple Haize]

Best chart I’ve seen. It doesn’t show the spike that we keep hearing about. Other than FL and SC things don’t seem that bad

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/ind ... s/virginia

Nice link. Thank you.

No worries Don’t be a stranger