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Moderators: jcmanson, Sly Fox, BuryYourDuke

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By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#628664
So that was me you were referencing? Ok then.

I'd listen to Pompeo over Tucker any day of the week. At least he knows a thing or two about what service means. Tucker has spent his entire career in front of a camera and knows outrage poltics is good business for him.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#628665
thepostman wrote: July 13th, 2021, 1:18 pm So that was me you were referencing? Ok then.

I'd listen to Pompeo over Tucker any day of the week. At least he knows a thing or two about what service means. Tucker has spent his entire career in front of a camera and knows outrage poltics is good business for him.
Do you think he will land an interview with Vladimir?
User avatar
By thepostman
Registration Days Posts
#628666
I don't know and honestly couldn't care less. It has nothing to do with anything posted in this thread. My bad for entertaining it.

You can start a Tucker man love thread if you want. :lol:
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628667
TH Spangler wrote: July 13th, 2021, 12:24 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:17 am Did you take John Titor seriously too?
Do you take CNN seriously? 😆

The persuader in chief says to not believe any of them.

I do trust Mike Pompeo. A retired military leader, graduated 1st in his at the academy. Do you?
I don’t implicitly trust anyone that I don’t know personally, or any news network at all. I do trust my ability to navigate the information they present. We’re in the Information Age and have direct access to primary sources for just about everything. Listen to whoever you want, but check their assertions.
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By TH Spangler
Registration Days Posts
#628669
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 1:44 pm
TH Spangler wrote: July 13th, 2021, 12:24 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:17 am Did you take John Titor seriously too?
Do you take CNN seriously? 😆

The persuader in chief says to not believe any of them.

I do trust Mike Pompeo. A retired military leader, graduated 1st in his at the academy. Do you?
I don’t implicitly trust anyone that I don’t know personally, or any news network at all. I do trust my ability to navigate the information they present. We’re in the Information Age and have direct access to primary sources for just about everything. Listen to whoever you want, but check their assertions.
I agree.

One thing that jumped out at me on the cnn link you posted was its date. October 21, 2020. There's a lot of new information since then, that seems to back Dr Yan.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628670
I think some people have realized they were too dogmatic in their assertion that it was natural and have walked that back a bit, but I haven’t seen anything convincing to say that it wasn’t.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628689
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:46 am https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/poli ... index.html

Here’s a good summary, but if you’re unfamiliar with the academic process of publishing a paper, let me tell you: don’t trust the conclusions of a paper that hasn’t been submitted for peer review. It seems like once the scientific community was actually able to review her papers, they tore them to shreds as hot garbage with questionable methods, citations, and funding.

But you didn’t answer my question: John Titor, legit? Y/N?
You mean like all those studies saying masks work?
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#628694
Purple Haize wrote: July 13th, 2021, 9:48 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:46 am https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/poli ... index.html

Here’s a good summary, but if you’re unfamiliar with the academic process of publishing a paper, let me tell you: don’t trust the conclusions of a paper that hasn’t been submitted for peer review. It seems like once the scientific community was actually able to review her papers, they tore them to shreds as hot garbage with questionable methods, citations, and funding.

But you didn’t answer my question: John Titor, legit? Y/N?
You mean like all those studies saying masks work?
Like this?

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Or this

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/674/download

Or oh so many more. But, you know that.



Y’all remember when PH was a voice of reason for the alleged “dark side”? Sad how the times have changed. Or maybe I’ve changed. I’m okay with that.
stokesjokes liked this
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628702
There’s an intentional misunderstanding that’s gone on for a long time from the anti-maskers. No, masks “don’t work” if you think wearing one will keep you from getting sick. I was diligent with my mask-wearing and got COVID. But guess what? No one I was around got it. We’ve got plenty of data to support masks’ efficacy in preventing spread.
lynchburgwildcats liked this
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628707
adam42381 wrote: July 13th, 2021, 10:16 pm
Purple Haize wrote: July 13th, 2021, 9:48 pm
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:46 am https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/21/poli ... index.html

Here’s a good summary, but if you’re unfamiliar with the academic process of publishing a paper, let me tell you: don’t trust the conclusions of a paper that hasn’t been submitted for peer review. It seems like once the scientific community was actually able to review her papers, they tore them to shreds as hot garbage with questionable methods, citations, and funding.

But you didn’t answer my question: John Titor, legit? Y/N?
You mean like all those studies saying masks work?
Like this?

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Or this

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/674/download

Or oh so many more. But, you know that.



Y’all remember when PH was a voice of reason for the alleged “dark side”? Sad how the times have changed. Or maybe I’ve changed. I’m okay with that.

Good effort but there has only been one “real world “ RCT. Plenty of literature on correlation but not a lot on causation etc
Common sense obviously isn’t very common. One has to just look around at the way people wear masks to know they are next to useless. Papers showing effectiveness in laboratory settings don’t take human factors etc into account.
The only place/time masks(fitted and worn properly) have shown any benefit are when you are in close proximity to a group of people for extended periods of time. Even then, your little blue mask or Hello Kitty has a limited life expectancy and needs to be swapped out. Which we know always happens.
User avatar
By adam42381
Registration Days Posts
#628712
Purple Haize wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:08 pm
adam42381 wrote: July 13th, 2021, 10:16 pm
Purple Haize wrote: July 13th, 2021, 9:48 pm

You mean like all those studies saying masks work?
Like this?

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Or this

https://covid19.ncdhhs.gov/media/674/download

Or oh so many more. But, you know that.



Y’all remember when PH was a voice of reason for the alleged “dark side”? Sad how the times have changed. Or maybe I’ve changed. I’m okay with that.

Good effort but there has only been one “real world “ RCT. Plenty of literature on correlation but not a lot on causation etc
Common sense obviously isn’t very common. One has to just look around at the way people wear masks to know they are next to useless. Papers showing effectiveness in laboratory settings don’t take human factors etc into account.
The only place/time masks(fitted and worn properly) have shown any benefit are when you are in close proximity to a group of people for extended periods of time. Even then, your little blue mask or Hello Kitty has a limited life expectancy and needs to be swapped out. Which we know always happens.
Neat.
By tyndal23
Posts
#628714
The only guy nailing this from the beginning is Alex Berenson based on raw data and not politics, an ex NYT writer and not a Trump fan, but he pulls and analyzes data directly and only from government sites and sticks it to the Covid Karen’s and Libtards on a daily basis and takes his shots at the conspiracy theory right as well. The left hates him, he doesn’t condone “conspiracy theories” and just hammers with the data and the weekly wrong contradictory spouting of each government entity worldwide. As for me, I take it a full step further on motives, but good to see someone just hammering data and admitting occasionally when they get it wrong - and he hasn’t been wrong week to week very much at all....follow him on Twitter if you don’t. At the very least you will learn something.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628719
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:21 pm So the argument is that masks don’t work because people don’t use them correctly?

“Doc, this cough syrup doesn’t work, I’ve been rubbing it on my feet and I don’t feel any better.”
You’re not far off in your comparison. If you aren’t “using as directed” then efficacy is greatly diminished if not eliminated. Thank you for helping make my point
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628720
@adam42381 you obviously haven’t see my desk. Or closet. Or the inside of my car if you’re gonna use that type of language :D
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628723
Purple Haize wrote: July 14th, 2021, 5:18 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:21 pm So the argument is that masks don’t work because people don’t use them correctly?

“Doc, this cough syrup doesn’t work, I’ve been rubbing it on my feet and I don’t feel any better.”
You’re not far off in your comparison. If you aren’t “using as directed” then efficacy is greatly diminished if not eliminated. Thank you for helping make my point
So the real point is that masks work, but people don’t use them correctly.

The “masks don’t work” line, though, is self-reinforcing. Who do you think are the people wearing them around their chins or below their noses? It’s the crowd that already believes they don’t work but know they can’t go to Walmart without one. If people believed they worked, maybe they’d care to wear them correctly and they would work.
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628728
Also, coming back to PH’s thoughts on this- it’s really irresponsible to go around saying “masks don’t work” when you really mean “masks only work when you wear them correctly.” The former tells people not to wear them at all. The latter tells them to learn how to wear them right.

@paradox, you’re talking about mask mandates, which is a more sticky political question.
What I will say- if enough people both understood that masks could keep their neighbors and loved ones from getting sick and dying and cared enough to do it voluntarily, we wouldn’t need mandates. In our self-focused, individualistic culture, and where we trust Uncle Billy on Facebook more than top scientists in their field, it would never happen.
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By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628733
stokesjokes wrote: July 14th, 2021, 7:50 am
Purple Haize wrote: July 14th, 2021, 5:18 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 13th, 2021, 11:21 pm So the argument is that masks don’t work because people don’t use them correctly?

“Doc, this cough syrup doesn’t work, I’ve been rubbing it on my feet and I don’t feel any better.”
You’re not far off in your comparison. If you aren’t “using as directed” then efficacy is greatly diminished if not eliminated. Thank you for helping make my point
So the real point is that masks work, but people don’t use them correctly.

The “masks don’t work” line, though, is self-reinforcing. Who do you think are the people wearing them around their chins or below their noses? It’s the crowd that already believes they don’t work but know they can’t go to Walmart without one. If people believed they worked, maybe they’d care to wear them correctly and they would work.
You need to define “work”. A hammer “works” on a nail but not so much at riveting. There are training procedures for medical staff etc on the proper way to fit and wear surgical masks let alone the vaunted N95
Heck there’s even a few papers out there talking about the need and efficacy of masks in an OR. For example:
“ review conducted by Da Zhou, Sivathondan and Handa4 in 2015 concluded there was no statistically significant difference in the risk of SSIs between two cohorts, one masked and one non-masked.”

https://www.journal.acorn.org.au/cgi/vi ... ontext=jpn

“Necessary” might be a better word than “work”. Where, when and for how long is wearing a mask “necessary” in ones daily life.
User avatar
By Purple Haize
Registration Days Posts
#628735
paradox wrote: July 14th, 2021, 8:15 am Would you rather live under a constitution with gaurenteed personal liberties, or be under under the rule of corrupt so-called leaders who change their mind daily on what "the science" says?
I’ll take Option A. People are free to make their own decisions regardless of whether I agree with them or not
LU 57 liked this
By stokesjokes
Registration Days Posts
#628736
Purple Haize wrote: July 14th, 2021, 8:48 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 14th, 2021, 7:50 am
Purple Haize wrote: July 14th, 2021, 5:18 am

You’re not far off in your comparison. If you aren’t “using as directed” then efficacy is greatly diminished if not eliminated. Thank you for helping make my point
So the real point is that masks work, but people don’t use them correctly.

The “masks don’t work” line, though, is self-reinforcing. Who do you think are the people wearing them around their chins or below their noses? It’s the crowd that already believes they don’t work but know they can’t go to Walmart without one. If people believed they worked, maybe they’d care to wear them correctly and they would work.
You need to define “work”. A hammer “works” on a nail but not so much at riveting. There are training procedures for medical staff etc on the proper way to fit and wear surgical masks let alone the vaunted N95
Heck there’s even a few papers out there talking about the need and efficacy of masks in an OR. For example:
“ review conducted by Da Zhou, Sivathondan and Handa4 in 2015 concluded there was no statistically significant difference in the risk of SSIs between two cohorts, one masked and one non-masked.”

https://www.journal.acorn.org.au/cgi/vi ... ontext=jpn

“Necessary” might be a better word than “work”. Where, when and for how long is wearing a mask “necessary” in ones daily life.
An even better word might be “help.” Does a mask help? It’s a silly argument at this point anyway, no mandates around here. Also, get vaxxed and then the mask is definitely useless.
User avatar
By LU 57
Posts
#628746
stokesjokes wrote: July 14th, 2021, 8:57 am
Purple Haize wrote: July 14th, 2021, 8:48 am
stokesjokes wrote: July 14th, 2021, 7:50 am

So the real point is that masks work, but people don’t use them correctly.

The “masks don’t work” line, though, is self-reinforcing. Who do you think are the people wearing them around their chins or below their noses? It’s the crowd that already believes they don’t work but know they can’t go to Walmart without one. If people believed they worked, maybe they’d care to wear them correctly and they would work.
You need to define “work”. A hammer “works” on a nail but not so much at riveting. There are training procedures for medical staff etc on the proper way to fit and wear surgical masks let alone the vaunted N95
Heck there’s even a few papers out there talking about the need and efficacy of masks in an OR. For example:
“ review conducted by Da Zhou, Sivathondan and Handa4 in 2015 concluded there was no statistically significant difference in the risk of SSIs between two cohorts, one masked and one non-masked.”

https://www.journal.acorn.org.au/cgi/vi ... ontext=jpn

“Necessary” might be a better word than “work”. Where, when and for how long is wearing a mask “necessary” in ones daily life.
An even better word might be “help.” Does a mask help? It’s a silly argument at this point anyway, no mandates around here. Also, get vaxxed and then the mask is definitely useless.
So if getting vaxxed renders the mask useless, and protects one from serious illness, why would one care if everyone else is vaxxed?
stokesjokes liked this
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