A Sea Of Red

Interesting development with the United Methodist Church. The Book of Discipline has been debated quite passionately over the past decade and building tension has finally resulted in a split. I think it's very sad and unfortunate, but not surprising. My family has close ties to our Methodist church and I have family who are ordained in the Methodist church here in NC. It will be interesting to see how the NC Conferences, and my local church, handle this paradigm shift. My understanding is the AME affiliated leadership was the strongest opponents (along with the "Traditionalist" of course) to submitting to the LGBTQ preferences/demands, but it would appear the divide has no compromise.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/us/m ... riage.html

My dad's family are long time Methodists, and I was a United Methodist member the first 15 years of my life until a friend invited me to hear B.R. Lakin at a revival at his church. And I've been a Baptist ever since. But what's happening in the Methodist church just breaks my heart.

So if a group of people who are Methodists don’t like the teachings of the Methodist Church, attempt to get the rules changed and fail, why don’t they just make a clean break and start their own thing?

Purple Haize wrote: ↑January 4th, 2020, 9:19 pm So if a group of people who are Methodists don’t like the teachings of the Methodist Church, attempt to get the rules changed and fail, why don’t they just make a clean break and start their own thing?

Great question. They want the denomination to change the Book of Discipline "Methodist Protocol" so it fits their preferences, i.e. gay marriage and clergy, etc. I'm not sure all of the "demands". The senior pastor from our local church sent out an email with some specifics on how it will work. I'll try to post what he was provided as an explanation from the NC Eastern Conference on how the church proper will move forward.

Here is the email the Senior Pastor sent out today:

Dear ,

You may have already seen in the press some mention of a plan for separation of The United Methodist Church into conservative and liberal entities. As you are surely aware, the people of The UMC have not been of one mind about the issue of homosexuality since the early 1970's. We even had a special called session of General Conference in February 2019 in an attempt to address the issue in a constructive way.

While the proposal that has been released to the press is of interest, please remember that it is only one proposal constructed by a small group. It will assuredly be offered at the next regularly scheduled General Conference, which is scheduled for May 2020. Many other similar plans/proposals will probably also be offered at General Conference by other groups. You are seeing this one because the group that constructed it released it to the press.

Our Bishop has released a statement about it, which out of respect for her I share below.

Dear United Methodist friends,
Grace and peace to you in this new year.
I write to encourage your gracious and prayerful attention to the proposal for the future of the United Methodist Church released today by a diverse group of United Methodist leaders. The proposal is the outcome of a skillfully mediated process in which these leaders came to a unanimous sense of possibility for our future. The proposal is offered to the church in humility and hope. I urge you to read the proposal and accompanying resources.
Styled by some media as a split, all the participants understand this to be a continuity of the UMC with provisions for separation for those who desire to do so.
As the year unfolds, there will be continued discussion and discernment relative to this proposal across the church as we move toward the General Conference in May. General Conference is the place where any decision will be made.
Thank you for your prayers for our church in this time and for your patience and perseverance. Together let us share strong hope for ministry configurations of our shared life that offer space for all to worship, grow in grace, and serve with faithfulness and joy.
With the shared confidence we have in God's providence, power, and grace,
Bishop Hope Morgan Ward


My friends, please remember that the only group that can speak on behalf of, and make decisions for, The United Methodist Church is the General Conference. No one bishop can do that, nor can the Council of Bishops. Also, just because a plan is leaked to the press doesn't mean it will pass as legislation at General Conference.

With that said, if you are so inclined feel free to read the proposal and accompanying resources by following the links below:

https://cdnsc.umc.org/-/media/umc-media ... Separation

https://www.umnews.org/en/news/protocol ... ration-faq


It is good to stay informed about the possibilities surrounding the future of our denomination. However, while you are staying informed, please also make it a priority to pray for the leading of the Holy Spirit in the decisions of General Conference, in the lives of all of our church leaders, and in all of our local congregations. Pray for peace, for clarity, for hope, and that the cause of Christ would be lifted up. And even if, at the end of the day, we do not agree on what the cause of Christ looks like, I hope you will join me in praying that we can have that conversation in Christian love.

I have never understood why churches support gay marriage and have women preachers. They are not Bible preaching churches.

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 11:20 am I have never understood why churches support gay marriage and have women preachers. They are not Bible preaching churches.

You just pretty much stated the reason.
Perhaps more accurately, they are not Bible practicing churches.

Truth be known, they are not churches. They're just people meeting on Sunday mornings. A church is a body of believers.

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm Truth be known, they are not churches. They're just people meeting on Sunday mornings. A church is a body of believers.

So you are now judging who are and are not Believers now. Interesting

Purple Haize wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 1:28 pm

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 1:16 pm Truth be known, they are not churches. They're just people meeting on Sunday mornings. A church is a body of believers.

So you are now judging who are and are not Believers now. Interesting

You're surprised by this???

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 11:20 am I have never understood why churches support gay marriage and [i]have women preachers[/i]. They are not Bible preaching churches.

Really???

"The primary meaning associated with the nature of preaching in the New Testament comes from the fact that the Greek word most frequently used to describe a preacher was that of a herald. A herald was one who announced a message, generally from the king or some other ruling authority, to those who had not heard it before. Preaching in New Testament times therefore related primarily to announcing good news. In the New Testament, the content of that good news centered around the themes of Jesus, Christ, the word, the gospel, and the kingdom."

http://www.thebible.net/biblicaltheism/ ... nction.htm

So the Great Commission was/is gender specific? So I guess Mary Magdalene was probably not the best person for Christ to first reveal Himself to after The Resurrection....thereby leading to her spreading the Good News per His instruction?

Ballcoach, I'm fine with whatever theological stance you have but are you able to back up the women preacher stance? I have always been told that but when digging into the texts you can quickly see they are taken out context and that women have a very prominent role in the church. You also have to remember cultural context as well. Women were treated like 2nd class citizens yet Jesus' life and how he regarded them (and children) often went against cultural norms.

It also isn't your job @ballcoach15 (or mine) to determine who is or isn't a Christian. That is a dangerous game to play.

thepostman wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 2:20 pm Ballcoach, I'm fine with whatever theological stance you have but are you able to back up the women preacher stance? I have always been told that but when digging into the texts you can quickly see they are taken out context and that women have a very prominent role in the church. You also have to remember cultural context as well. Women were treated like 2nd class citizens yet Jesus' life and how he regarded them (and children) often went against cultural norms.

It also isn't your job @ballcoach15 (or mine) to determine who is or isn't a Christian. That is a dangerous game to play.

ballcoach factually back up one of his statements? In other headlines that day “Hades experiencing odd cold front. Water losing its liquidity. And Taxes now optional”

Unfortunately more on here than not are likely in ball coach’s camp when it comes to women in ministry.

I mean I may disagree with that theology but please attempt to back it up with scripture. Then we can have a conversation.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35;

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 4:10 pm 1 Corinthians 14:34-35;

How do you reconcile that with 1 Corinthians 11:5 or vs 27-31 of the same Chapter?

Ballcoach, my understanding is that LU's School of Divinity has many women who are pursuing an M.Div. degree, and they have been doing that for years.

So women don't speak at TRBC? Have things changed? Or do you only take it out of context just enough to tell women they can't be in pastoral roles?

Purple Haize wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 4:53 pm

ballcoach15 wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 4:10 pm 1 Corinthians 14:34-35;

How do you reconcile that with 1 Corinthians 11:5 or vs 27-31 of the same Chapter?

So taking the Scripture as it is, without assuming/applying context, era, or translation....it only applies to married women?

Read 1 Corinthians 14:34-35. Then read Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32.

Ok, but please answer my question above.

thepostman wrote: ↑January 5th, 2020, 5:23 pm So women don't speak at TRBC? Have things changed? Or do you only take it out of context just enough to tell women they can't be in pastoral roles?

I have never heard a woman preach at TRBC.

That wasn't my question.