[Jonathan Carone]

One of my issues with the current Republican Party is it went from compassionate conservatism under Bush and turned into mean-spirited nationalism. You can say to vote for policy, not rhetoric, but we're in a place where rhetoric is influencing policy in ways it never used to do. On top of that, you've got the desire to own the libs that has infected everything the right does so even when conservative politicians agree with something from the left, the party leadership doesn't let them vote that way.

I was talking to a pastor friend this morning. He is/was friends with a local Republican politician who ran for office a few years ago. After being in office a few months, they met up and talked about how it was going. The politician told him it was very much a get in line or we'll beat you into submission until you do type of environment within the party. There was no room for disagreement. If you didn't follow the line, the whips stayed on you until you did.

It's all us vs them now - from both sides. I've all but checked out of national politics because of it and have started focusing my efforts at the local level.

[Purple Haize]

I can say I’m voting for Policy over rhetoric…because I am. Do I also like the fact Republicans are pushing back? Yes I am. Mitt was called a squish because he was too nice. That Dude had all the moral and virtuous qualities you could ever ask for…but never fought back. Except now, he’s more than willing to take pot shots at Trump.
Do I wish there was more civility in Politics? Yes. But I don’t expect it and am not disappointed when it doesn’t happen. No Politician in the last go around would have met anyone’s “moral threshold” so what do you do? You make the best bad choice. So much for your moral high ground

[LU 57]

One of my issues with the current Republican Party is it went from compassionate conservatism under Bush and turned into mean-spirited nationalism. You can say to vote for policy, not rhetoric, but we're in a place where rhetoric is influencing policy in ways it never used to do. On top of that, you've got the desire to own the libs that has infected everything the right does so even when conservative politicians agree with something from the left, the party leadership doesn't let them vote that way.

I was talking to a pastor friend this morning. He is/was friends with a local Republican politician who ran for office a few years ago. After being in office a few months, they met up and talked about how it was going. The politician told him it was very much a get in line or we'll beat you into submission until you do type of environment within the party. There was no room for disagreement. If you didn't follow the line, the whips stayed on you until you did.

It's all us vs them now - from both sides. I've all but checked out of national politics because of it and have started focusing my efforts at the local level.

I understand what you are saying, but there is only one party at war with Christianity. If Christians keep checking out of national politics we are toast as a country.

That said, I am a very firm believer that our nation's problems are spiritual, not political. The only real solution is for individual hearts to change (never entirely sure what you guys mean by a Jesus juke; maybe this is it?).

[stokesjokes]

For you, purple, I will quote Neil Peart on this one: “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.” No one’s forcing you to vote. If you’re dissatisfied with your choices, you can choose neither.

[stokesjokes]

(never entirely sure what you guys mean by a Jesus juke; maybe this is it?).

It’s a pretty good example

[Jonathan Carone]

I understand what you are saying, but there is only one party at war with Christianity.

At the same time, there is only one party distorting Christianity to spew their politics.

[paradox]

There's plenty of distorting of Christianity going on pretty much everywhere.

As far as your mean-spirited nationalism claim...you need to make that point...not sure where you're going with that?

[Jonathan Carone]

The rhetoric is mean spirited.

The policy is nationalistic.

[paradox]

What's nationalistic about the policy? If we're talking open-borders, that was an Obama-Kerry invention. Opposing that is hardly nationalistic or mean-spirited. Clinton opposed it in 90s.

[Jonathan Carone]

You’ve routinely denied any trace of nationalism over the last five years. I’m not going to spend my time trying to convince you of something you’ll never agree with. It’s okay to disagree.

[stokesjokes]

How can a policy called “America First” be described as anything but nationalistic? You can argue whether it’s good or bad, but it’s openly and unabashedly nationalism.

[paradox]

So, was JFK a nationalist? LBJ? I think Henry Kissinger (Nixon era) was really the first guy that got serious into the whole international thing. Still gotta have balance though. Trump was off balance a little. I'll give you that. But that's how he won. It was a rustbelt thing. Too many blue-collar jobs shipped overseas. Both parties are responsible fo that problem.

[stokesjokes]

Sure?

Shoulda followed Jon’s lead on this one

[paradox]

Hey...we're persuadable. You just gotta persuade us! Talking points tend to work mostly on those who already think that way.

[paradox]

It would seem that Populism is here to stay. Same with the Left. That's the choice we're left with. People who still value individual rights & liberties versus elites who desire to manage society.

[Yacht Rock]

Both the right and left try to manage and control people but just have different things they want to manage and control.

[stokesjokes]

I heard it put this way once and thought it pretty apt:

The right controls with fear, the left controls with shame

[Yacht Rock]

They taught us in 6th grade that if you keep traveling right and you keep traveling left, you wind up in the same place.

[paradox]

There actually is a Left though. It's not a phantom. It's a real thing. And, there are various forms of reaction by which people oppose it.

[Yacht Rock]

There actually is a Left though. It's not a phantom. It's a real thing. And, there are various forms of reaction by which people oppose it.

I don't think anyone denied their existence. Just pointing out how similar they are to the right in their actions.

[Purple Haize]

The rhetoric is mean spirited.

The policy is nationalistic.

What’s wrong with a Nationalistic policy? That’s kind of the point of having countries borders etc.

[Purple Haize]

For you, purple, I will quote Neil Peart on this one: “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.” No one’s forcing you to vote. If you’re dissatisfied with your choices, you can choose neither.

Yep. You’re making the best bad choice. You’re not choosing virtue. You’re not choosing anything. It’s fine if you don’t want to engage. Knock yourself out. But it makes you no less righteous or virtuous than someone who does not

[Jonathan Carone]

I’ll still vote and do my due diligence there, but I’m not going to keep up with the day to day nonsense.

[JK37]

Seems like a lot of people took a similar break after the last national election.

[LU 57]

Seems like a lot of people took a similar break after the last national election.

I get it. I have checked out a few different times mostly due to busyness or complacency. I guess the relentless push of the Left “woke” me back up .

I did not vote for Trump in 2016. I threw my vote away on McMullin on principle. I was not really a never-Trumper but I had never been a fan. I remember reading O’Brien’s book about the lengths Trump went to overstate his wealth so that he could be on Forbes list, way back in ‘04 or ‘05. I have never enjoyed being around loud-mouths.

Anyway, I guess I convinced myself that Hillary for one term might be better than Trump. As time went on and I saw how much he defended faith: First President to speak at March for Life, SC nominees, Religious Freedom EO, etc., I changed my tune. Besides he was doing mainly good things for the economy as well, although I never liked all of the spending.

Fast-forward to 2020, and looking at the platform of the Dems and how far they were pushing left, it was an absolute no-brainer for me.

In conclusion, from an economic perspective, those who lean left need to remember that more wealth has been created in the last 400 years than all of prior human history. Capitalism is not perfect, but are we ready to throw that away? The Left can argue that’s not what they want, but that is what they have been pushing for in spite of what they say.

Better to push for change within in my mind. DeSantis/Scott in 2024 would be a ticket a lot of folks could rally around I believe.